How many Insulate the pellet stove wall thimble with fire rated insulation?

[Don2222]

Hello

I just installed the up an out kit on my garage stove and there is alot of cold air around the wall thimble.

I am trying to tighten up the leaky garage with a new R18.4 Steel garage door.

The thimble around the DT pipe has cold air just wafting in and caulking may stop the breeze but not the cold so much.

How many of you put nice fire rated insulation around your pellet stove wall thru like the guy in the video?

This Selkirk at Lowe's comes with some insulation on the inside. Selkirk is a Top name in Pellet Stove Venting and I assume they did test it.

If you listen to the video carefully, The Tech states that the Product is an "Insulated Wall thimble" meaning he did not do that himself. So it must be UL approved also.
http://www.lowes.com/pd_202831-85178-208463_0__?productId=3318268

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[smwilliamson]

IT IS DESIGNED TO BE AN AIR SPACE AROUND THE PIPE....DO NOT INSULATE!! You can insulate around the outside of the cylinder.

 

[Don2222]

IT IS DESIGNED TO BE AN AIR SPACE AROUND THE PIPE....DO NOT INSULATE!! You can insulate around the outside of the cylinder.

Actually when you think of it, adding more air with an air space goes against everything they teach about smothering fires. Air is fuel for the fire! Adding fire rated insulation will help to smother the fire!

Just look at this video you may understand the properties of Rock Wool a little better!
As they say in the video, "Have you ever seen a rock burn?"
Believe me after seeing this I feel much safer having my pellet pipe surrounded by rock wool than an air space! Wow! ! !

(broken link removed to http://www.rockwool.co.uk/why+rockwool-c7-/fire+resistance/does+it+burn-c7-/does+it+burn-c7-+wooden+house)

Things sometime change for the better! I have to try something like this. The cold from the thimble is too much for me!
Lowe's now sells the new Selkirk wall thimble with insulation on the inside!

For Wood or pellet Burning -- "UL safety listing - YES" see specs below

This Selkirk wall thimble at Lowe's comes with some insulation on the inside!
http://www.lowes.com/pd_202831-85178-208463_0__?productId=3318268

Wood or Pellet Burning Wood​

BTU (BTU) 0.0​

Heating Area (Sq. Feet) 0.0​

Hopper Capacity (Cu. Feet) 0.0​

Ash Drawer No​

Blower No​

EPA Approved No​

UL Safety Listing Yes​

CSA Safety Listing No​

ETL Safety Listing No​

Brick-Lined Firebox No​

Air Wash System No​

Fuel Capacity (lbs.) 0.0​

Auto Ignition No​

Catalytic/Non Catalytic Non Catalytic​

Type Freestanding​

 

[MikeP]

If you watch the video you posted, between 2:10-2:40 he talks about it being an insulated thimble and just like the Lowes one its probably been designed to work with insulation. If the one you have came uninsulated I wouldn't just stuff insulation in it as it wasn't designed and tested to be insulated. I would just seal up the air leaks, probably the biggest culprit to heat loss and call it a day.

 

[smwilliamson]

Insulated thimble means air insulated unless it specifically stated adding other insulation which to date I have not found any that do.

 

[smwilliamson]

Why does this Selkirk wall thimble at Lowe's come with insulation? Insulation is inside!

For Wood or pellet Burning -- "UL safety listing - YES" see specs below

This Selkirk at Lowe's comes with some insulation
http://www.lowes.com/pd_202831-85178-208463_0__?productId=3318268

Wood or Pellet Burning Wood​

BTU (BTU) 0.0​

Heating Area (Sq. Feet) 0.0​

Hopper Capacity (Cu. Feet) 0.0​

Ash Drawer No​

Blower No​

EPA Approved No​

UL Safety Listing Yes​

CSA Safety Listing No​

ETL Safety Listing No​

Brick-Lined Firebox No​

Air Wash System No​

Fuel Capacity (lbs.) 0.0​

Auto Ignition No​

Catalytic/Non Catalytic Non Catalytic​

Type Freestanding​

If it comes with it then that is another story...but as the OP I was really talking about liner and not double wall pipes or thimbles. You ought to take a CSIA or NFI class or try and pass the MA Solid Fuel Exam, you can't just start tossing install advice around

 

[smwilliamson]

Why does this Selkirk wall thimble at Lowe's come with insulation? Insulation is inside!

For Wood or pellet Burning -- "UL safety listing - YES" see specs below

This Selkirk at Lowe's comes with some insulation
http://www.lowes.com/pd_202831-85178-208463_0__?productId=3318268

Wood or Pellet Burning Wood​

BTU (BTU) 0.0​

Heating Area (Sq. Feet) 0.0​

Hopper Capacity (Cu. Feet) 0.0​

Ash Drawer No​

Blower No​

EPA Approved No​

UL Safety Listing Yes​

CSA Safety Listing No​

ETL Safety Listing No​

Brick-Lined Firebox No​

Air Wash System No​

Fuel Capacity (lbs.) 0.0​

Auto Ignition No​

Catalytic/Non Catalytic Non Catalytic​

Type Freestanding​

Ah and another thing..."Listed" is different than "Approved" just because it was listed doesn't mean that it passed and when citing UL, ANSI or ASTM testing standards it's a good idea to cite the actual test. There is a lot of crap out there that home stores sell that is "Listed" but actually failed the test...they tried but it didn't work out for them. In an effort to make something cheaper often the product doesn't perform as it should.

 

[Don2222]

If it comes with it then that is another story...but as the OP I was really talking about liner and not double wall pipes or thimbles. You ought to take a CSIA or NFI class or try and pass the MA Solid Fuel Exam, you can't just start tossing install advice around

UL approved install advice is what I am talking about and you are not the OP in this thread!

Here is another Insulated Excel Thimble that can be used for Pellet burning

(broken link removed)

Insulated Wall Thimble for Gas, Pellet or Wood Stove ~ 4 3/4 to 5 inch


See insulation inside inner ring to seal pellet pipe. Nice Idea
Click pick below to Enlarge:

 

[Don2222]

Ah and another thing..."Listed" is different than "Approved" just because it was listed doesn't mean that it passed and when citing UL, ANSI or ASTM testing standards it's a good idea to cite the actual test. There is a lot of crap out there that home stores sell that is "Listed" but actually failed the test...they tried but it didn't work out for them. In an effort to make something cheaper often the product doesn't perform as it should.

This insulated wall thimble is Tested to ULC Standard S-641 and UL103UL-103 Standard
http://www.menards.com/main/p-1936086.htm

However, The pellet stoves and accessories sold in home stores must be UL approved and safe or they cannot be sold! Selkirk is a TOP name in pellet stove venting! Maybe you should try it and get more familiar with it!

For the money, I think I would go with the Selkirk.

It looks like Selkirk uses Roxul rock wool insulation. It's temp rating is 2150 Def F and R=22 for 6" wall.

 

[Defiant]

I don't

 

[Don2222]

Hello

Looks like it maybe a good summer project for next year. According to this Menard's wall thimble ad, this insulated wall thimble is designed for all fuels!

Better Insulating Value = Superior Stove Performance


Also
This insulated DSP Double Wall Stove Pipe is listed and tested to ULC S641 and UL 103 standards.
http://www.menards.com/main/p-1936086.htm


8" Insulated Wall Thimble

• Smokepipe Accessories
• Tested to ULC Standard S-641 and UL103UL-103 Standard
• All residential fuels, gas, liquid, solid. UL103; ULC S641
• An attractive outer black painted surface made of durable aluminized steel to withstand temperatures up to 1200 degrees F of continuous operation
• Better Insulating Value = Superior Stove Performance
• 6" Clearance to Combustibles
• Designed with double wall construction and a durable stainless steel inner liner.
• Limited Lifetime Warranty

Click pic to enlarge:

 

[smwilliamson]

listed and tested to ULC S641 and UL 103 standards doesn't mean it passed the test. Usually when it does it will say "Listed and Approved"

 

[smwilliamson]

This insulated wall thimble is Tested to ULC Standard S-641 and UL103UL-103 Standard
http://www.menards.com/main/p-1936086.htm

However, The pellet stoves and accessories sold in home stores must be UL approved and safe or they cannot be sold! .

Not true.

 

[smwilliamson]

UL approved install advice is what I am talking about and you are not the OP in this thread!

yeah sorry, thought I was back on my thread...ooopsie!

 

[Don2222]

yeah sorry, thought I was back on my thread...ooopsie!

Thanks Scott, I think Selkirk uses Roxul rock wool insulation inside the Wall thru which is good to 2150 Deg F. That is why it works well and keeps the inside of the house warmer. What do you think?

 

[smwilliamson]

You can only add things to listed appliances and venting components when the manufacturer explicitly tells you it is ok according to the listing. Would adding fire wool to a wall thimble alter the listing?...I do not know but I wouldn't want to be on the hook in the event of a fire for "trying it out". One has to be careful.

People say that the fire brick in a pellet stove firebox isn't a big deal either and you don't need it. I would agree with that statement if the fire brick was sold "optional", but if it came with the stove and there is no mention of optional fire brick in the owner's manual...then it is mandatory.

Does the wall thimble say that adding fire wool to the fire stop insulating cylinder is optional? If so, knock yourself out. I have had inspectors bust my chops about putting solicone on a wall thimble, are they right? Perhaps.....like I said, if it isn't explicitly stated, opt for not doing it.

 

[will711]

I don't

Me either

 

[smwilliamson]

Not a big fan of Selkirk myself.

 

[Don2222]

You can only add things to listed appliances and venting components when the manufacturer explicitly tells you it is ok according to the listing. Would adding fire wool to a wall thimble alter the listing?...I do not know but I wouldn't want to be on the hook in the event of a fire for "trying it out". One has to be careful.

People say that the fire brick in a pellet stove firebox isn't a big deal either and you don't need it. I would agree with that statement if the fire brick was sold "optional", but if it came with the stove and there is no mention of optional fire brick in the owner's manual...then it is mandatory.

Does the wall thimble say that adding fire wool to the fire stop insulating cylinder is optional? If so, knock yourself out. I have had inspectors bust my chops about putting solicone on a wall thimble, are they right? Perhaps.....like I said, if it isn't explicitly stated, opt for not doing it.

This pellet stove wall thimble comes with rock wool insulation from Selkirk so it must be ok.

 

[smwilliamson]

This wall thru comes with rock wool insulation from Selkirk so it must be ok.

Yes...and it may HAVE to be there too since it came with it.

 

[Don2222]

Yes...and it may HAVE to be there too since it came with it.

That would stop the cold air coming in and you do need silicone to stop air from coming in.

 

[Defiant]

This pellet stove wall thimble comes with rock wool insulation

The mice love to make nests with it You did not specify where the insulation went in your early postings

 

[smoke show]

Not a big fan of Selkirk myself.

Do you have much experience with Direct Temp?

 

[DexterDay]

Hello

Looks like it maybe a good summer project for next year. According to this Menard's wall thimble ad, this insulated wall thimble is designed for all fuels!

Better Insulating Value = Superior Stove Performance


Also
This insulated DSP Double Wall Stove Pipe is listed and tested to ULC S641 and UL 103 standards.
http://www.menards.com/main/p-1936086.htm


8" Insulated Wall Thimble

• Smokepipe Accessories
• Tested to ULC Standard S-641 and UL103UL-103 Standard
• All residential fuels, gas, liquid, solid. UL103; ULC S641
• An attractive outer black painted surface made of durable aluminized steel to withstand temperatures up to 1200 degrees F of continuous operation
• Better Insulating Value = Superior Stove Performance
• 6" Clearance to Combustibles
• Designed with double wall construction and a durable stainless steel inner liner.
• Limited Lifetime Warranty

Click pic to enlarge:

Don, that is for an 8" wood stove? So an insulated thimble would benefit slightly. A wood stove must keep the flue gases as warm as possible, for as long as possible. But with wood, many people burn unseasoned wood. Very few people actually let there wood sit the required 2-3 years before burning.

As for pellet stoves? Pellets have a very low moisture content and can stand a lower flue temp. Insulating a liner on a pellet stove is not as big of a deal as a wood stove.

As is the thimble on a pellet stove? Silicone the pipe to thimble connection and call it a day.

 

[mepellet]

Do you have much experience with Direct Temp?

Smoke - Still haven't gotten an answer huh? https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/best-vent-pipe-for-new-install.88665/#post-1151905 I would be interested in his response as well. Scott has mentioned on a few occaisions that he doesn't like Selkirk, but I haven't seen an explanation. I very well might have missed it though, because I don't read everything on here.... There are quite a few people on here that have the DT line and are very pleased with it.