How smooth your bypass and air control?

[Jerry_NJ]

My new this year Quadrafire 4100I Insert has the usual "bypass" and "air control" that seem to work ok, but:
1) the bypass is rather stiff, and requires some pull to move it
2) the air control seems too loose, it slides with a bit of a sliding side and if I twist the handle the pull rod rotates, it feels like it is lifting a plate.

In the second case it "feels" like there is an elongated flap/plate on the rod that covers none, some, or most of, an opening that lets air into the fire (secondary burn tubs, and where ever).

Does this sound right, or is there something loose in the air control, and perhaps, something dragging in the bypass?

 

[Jerry_NJ]

Ok, 52 readers and no responses. I'll respond to bump this back on the "hit list", and if nothing comes of it I rethink how to ask the question, or decide to forget it.

 

[Valhalla]

Jerry,

This could just be just the normal friction of the two cast iron pieces sealing together. My current Encore has this on the Everburn (internal damper) lever and also my original Defiant of many years ago on the horizontal combustion lever.

Unless there is a distinct change in the feel and action of these controls, I would not worry about it. When you do your mid winter cleaning just take a look at the linkage adjustments.

Edit: It's a new unit, so call the dealer that sold it to you!! They made the profit and should certainly answer your inquiry.

Also, you may try to re-post this question with the make and model in the subject line on a new thread subject. You may catch more wood burners with your type of stove and info.

Good luck and burn wisely.

PS A lot of wood burner folks were having leftover turkey at grandmas last weekend, and maybe not on the web.

 

[granpajohn]

I also find the bypass control to be rather stiff and creaky. I sometimes wonder if it really closes any further at the end of the pull.
The main air lever seems OK, and I don't think I've ever rotated it as you describe. In fact, I don't think it rotates. Will give it a try tonight.

I think OffRoadAudio, (y'know, Frank), claims that the bypass doesn't work at all on his QF, and he just leaves the door ajar if extra air is needed.

 

[Jerry_NJ]

Thanks, grandpajohn, I'm a grandpa too and have a son and grandson named John Frederick, interestingly no need for a Jr. as the grandson so named is from my daughter who took her husband's last name, must be an old fashioned girl. I'm sure I had nothing to do with that.

Your description of the bypass is a good one for mine too, must be common if not "right". It seems to work too, and I have to close it when the wood gets going or watch out temperature. It was just recently I tried to rotate the main air control, and it doesn't so much rotate around the axis of its travel as around the face of the insert. That is when I pull it all the way out (closed) I can push down and the piece inside the stove raises up and can be dropped down with a "clank".

Yes, when next out that way I can stop by the dealer and check a "floor" model. I wonder if he'll or his sales guy will remember me. I was the one, I bet only one, who came back at them when I saw they substituted the stainless steel liner lower cost brand than I had noted on my ordering invoice. My deal called for a HomeSaver UltraPro, the low end of a top brand, they installed a DuraFlex and at 35' the price difference was enough to ask for an adjustment. I bet it wasn't so much they were trying to cheat me as just business as usual, sell without specifying and use whatever they have in the warehouse. Then too, what are the chanced the homeowner will check what the installation guys are doing, ha! I check everything, even the operation operation of the air controls. When I called him about the substitution he knocked of another $200 (don't remember the exact number). So, they may get defensive if I come in and start asking questions. One problem with Quadrafire is the owner's manual doesn't show details on these controls, and the factory doesn't answer questions either, I believe.

 

[granpajohn]

One problem with Quadrafire is the owner's manual doesn't show details on these controls...

I couldn't agree more. The QF manual is lacking in detail. It would be an improvement if only they would put in 1 or 2 of those cheezy exploded diagrams that come with everything from lawnmowers to food processors.

 

[granpajohn]

The main air lever seems OK, and I don't think I've ever rotated it as you describe. In fact, I don't think it rotates. Will give it a try tonight.

Test report:
Nope. Neither one rotates.

 

[Jerry_NJ]

Thanks, granpajohn,

I note a correction in my description of the air control, mine doesn't rotate around the axis of its travel (like a watch stem), rather I can "lift" the inside part by pushing down on the air control - so it more or less allows rocking or titer-totter like motion.

 

[jtp10181]

Uhh... bypass?

There is a primary air control and a startup air control.

the startup air controls the air coming in the "shotgun" tubes in the rear, you can see a flap open and close when you slide the control. the rod goes to the back of the unit and connects to the flap with a single linkage usually.

The primary air feeds the hump in the front, it should just be a rod welded to a flat plate that slides over a hole.

 

[Jerry_NJ]

jtp10181

Thanks, sounds about right. Sorry for the misnaming.

The primary is what I was calling the bypass, and the fact that it goes all the way to the back may explain why it is somewhat "stiff". I'll look to see if I can see the shtogun tubes open, I assume that's what the two holes on the firebrick in back is all about.

THe primary feels like it is just a flat plate sliding along, and it seems to work, albeit if the fire is getting too hot for my liking it isn't tight enough to shut the fire down. I don't think I have had any over-fired conditions, but I has seen the thermometer on the area just above the door run up to 700 degrees. I do reiterate that the pimary control does allow a lifting action on the "plate". Once the control is pulled out 1/2 way or more it is possible to push down on it and feel that the flat plate inside the cabinet is lifted. Thus, on my unit at least, there is no constrain holding the flat plate from being lifted. It doesn't lift in normal operation, I just decided to see if it allowed any motion besides a simple in/out pull.

 

[granpajohn]

No, I think the "startup" is what Jerry was calling the "bypass".
And...after a quick check... I found that my primary does lift also.

 

[Jerry_NJ]

grandpajohn,

Thanks again for checking, also owning a 400I gives your inputs are a direct check. Don't know if you said, but I guess yours is also new...manufactured around the same time/year.

Yes, my description of "rotate" was wrong, the control "lifts", but only around the axis of where the rod goes through the cabinet wall. I used a flashlight to see if I could see any action in the "shot gun" tubes when I moved the "startup". I could not, the two holes do indeed have tubes aimed into the firebox, but I can't see any movement. I think the 4100I controls the air flow from a gate/flap somewhere inside, out of sight.

The word :startup" my mind clicks, that must be what's in the owners manual. and is descriptive of its use. I must have picked up the term "bypass" on this forum, but I can't recall for sure. That word would make functional sense if the control bypassed the regular, or primary, air control to flood the firebox with fresh air. It could also describe a function that bypasses the EPA controls to help start the fire, in all cases, it must be closed once the fire is started.

Overal, I am pleased with the Quadrafire. The bay window glass (ceramic or whatever it is) stays clean, or at least clear enough to see the fire, much longer than the old non-EPA insert I had used for many years.

 

[Henz]

my olympic is the same way

 

[offroadaudio]

I also find the bypass control to be rather stiff and creaky. I sometimes wonder if it really closes any further at the end of the pull.
The main air lever seems OK, and I don't think I've ever rotated it as you describe. In fact, I don't think it rotates. Will give it a try tonight.

I think OffRoadAudio, (y'know, Frank), claims that the bypass doesn't work at all on his QF, and he just leaves the door ajar if extra air is needed.

Correct - I also had the dealer come out to check that lever when the stove was brand new, because it felt like it was binding and was not smooth to operate.
The service guy said that it did feel tight, but that it was a very simple device with no linkages or anything - and so felt like it was operating properly.

I didn't like my Quad then - that's because I was as green as some of my wood! I love it now and it heats the house nicely - no NG burning here.
The usefulness of that start up air control is very questionable though.....

 

[Jerry_NJ]

Thanks offroadaudio, what model Quad do you have?

We are happy with the performance of our 4100I. We have about 2,000 SqFt, on two stories, so nice for natural heat distribution. We also have a setting that will run our forced air central heating system fan on low, which helps move air around the house.

We hold the house at 72 degrees, or a bit less, in the room with the Insert and the and a back room, that is really an extension to the garage, in the low 60s when the temperature outside is in the mid 20s. So, it will hold the central heat off during typical cold winter weather here in NJ. Given we accept 60 degrees during sleep time, the Insert holds the house for hours after we go to bed even with the outside dropping into the teens.

 

[offroadaudio]

Thanks offroadaudio, what model Quad do you have?

We are happy with the performance of our 4100I. We have about 2,000 SqFt, on two stories, so nice for natural heat distribution. We also have a setting that will run our forced air central heating system fan on low, which helps move air around the house.

We hold the house at 72 degrees, or a bit less, in the room with the Insert and the and a back room, that is really an extension to the garage, in the low 60s when the temperature outside is in the mid 20s. So, it will hold the central heat off during typical cold winter weather here in NJ. Given we accept 60 degrees during sleep time, the Insert holds the house for hours after we go to bed even with the outside dropping into the teens.

I also have the 4100I - I may have miss-identified it as a 4300 in previous posts - too many numbers to remember.....
We live in a 2200sq ft. cape cod and never use the furnace.
At first, I was afraid to use the blower on high for some reason. But I found that with the (loud) blower cranking I can move the house from 60 to 72 within an hour.

 

[jtp10181]

It is normal for the primary air control to move around some and lift or tilt up and down. It is the simplest thing ever, there is a triangle shaped hole cut into the steel and that rod is welded to a flat plate that sides over the hole.

It is true you cannot totally shut all the air off using the controls, this is a required "feature" by EPA regs.

With the startup air closed and the primary shut down as far as it can go the fire should die down quite a bit (depending on how good of a draft you get). Check thew door seals using the dollar bill test (search if you don't know what that is). With the "bay" style door there is more of a possibility for leaks. You can adjust the door somehow.... I think the pin where it latches can be pushed back using some set screws above and below it.

 

[Jerry_NJ]

Thanks, that's about what the primary air control feels like, a rod with a plate on the end that is not constrained from an up/down movement, and a back and forth. Seems it just fill the space left/right as there the "play" in those directions is limited.

All seems to work fine, I think the door seal is fine for now. When I looked at the unit was immediately concerned about the long door and how well it would seal. But, my wife liked teh looks of it and the promise of a better view of the fire. Otherwise I would have purchased the 3100I.

The 4100I is "perking" along just fine tonight. I lit off about 5 pm when the outside temp dropped below freezing. It is in the mid 20s now and the central heating system is off, waiting to come on early in the morning when the 4100I cools down. Surprising to me, if I load it with just a couple of thick splits at midnight and close the primary air down all the way I find the stove still has a lot of hot coals and the glass is quite warm at 8 am. When the outside temp is in the low 20s to teens, the central heating system will have kicked on sometime during the early hours, but the Insert does continue to add heat to the room until late in the morning even without a refueling at 8 am. The Quad 4100I is a very good heating device.

 

[Jerry_NJ]

Discovery. Did someone say check the door seal?

The reason I started checking how the air controls were working is I wasn't getting as much fire control as I expected. The burn rate was affected by changing the primary air control, but less so than I expected. I did look at the gasket, and the door when closed, and it looked closed and absent any obvious breaks.

Then, this morning I wondered when pushing the door handle down to the locked position, why the latch had movement in it relative to the door on which it is mounted. Checking I find two screw-head bolts holding the latch onto the door, both were very loose. I tightened them down and could feel that the door was pulling up tighter when I set the latch to closed.

The primary air control now has a much more obvious control on the burn rate.

I assume the latch was either not tightened down at the factory, or the store/installer didn't tighten it down. You may want to check yours too.

 

[jtp10181]

Glad I could help point you in the right direction.

Now was the actual door latch loose or was the pin that it hooks to loose? I have never seen the door latch be loose, it might not have gotten tightened at the factory and installers did not notice.

 

[Jerry_NJ]

It was the latch, the part on the door. I didn't think anything was wrong, just felt like the latch had some allowed movement. I suppose it got worse with time and it finally triggered me to look closely, and even with my poor eyesight I could see the latch handle as moving under the two hold down bolts.

The air control now clearly has more affect on the burn rate.

 

[Dustin]

bump to the top with a new issue.

I'm not seeing any difference in fire behavior with my start up air open, or closed.

My wood is very dry and I have a pretty good draft. Should I actually see anything opening in the two rear shotgun tubes?

 

[Jerry_NJ]

I haven't started using my quad yet this year, in fact I haven't even cleaned the chimney yet... but I do remember the is a difference with the extra air coming in from the "shotgun tubes" in fact I think the insert would overfire if they were not closed once the fire is going.