How to fight climate change... for reals.

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You didn’t have a very good Stihl, if it was only “a bit” faster! ;lol

MS 660 in 30” wood vs anything made by B&D, ever… no contest. There’s more than three seconds separating these two.
MS660 is also a 90cc saw, hardly comparable to what the average chainsaw user owns.
 
MS660 is also a 90cc saw, hardly comparable to what the average chainsaw user owns.
Never said it was. Almost as irrelevant as how many "average" woodburners hang out on a forum dedicated to woodburning. Neither of us are average!
 
Never said it was. Almost as irrelevant as how many "average" woodburners hang out on a forum dedicated to woodburning. Neither of us are average!
But aren't we talking about how regular people can affect climate change?
 
its called social credit scores.. look up" communitariusm" not sure I spelled it correctly... All "for the Greater good". Right ... good for the elite that is...but not us useless eaters also us serfs or peasants They them those will control us masses with rationing of food etc.
those who think electric vehicles are the way to go have their heads up their behinds. Where do the crazies think this electic for charging EV is coming from or where going to get new batteries.?
or dispose of older ones. Ciyde Lewis talked about 3 miles radius communities.like in the 50s etc .When us oldsters lived within walking distance of schools and neigborhood stores;;;; long before Malls etc and the urban or suburban sprawl. But all might work if 90% of population perishes. or thru FEAR..... but I dont dwell on such. can't find many folks who care
also Man is doing lots of bad stuff to our planet like cutting down lots of trees esp the Rain Forest. , use of endless plastics''' Yeah yall know why. we all could do better esp in the way we consume and esp What we Eat. Cant believe the mainstream media etc. we mankind have been lied to for centuries
I'll jump off my Soap box now, Blessings to all
 
its called social credit scores.. look up" communitariusm" not sure I spelled it correctly... All "for the Greater good". Right ... good for the elite that is...but not us useless eaters also us serfs or peasants They them those will control us masses with rationing of food etc.
those who think electric vehicles are the way to go have their heads up their behinds. Where do the crazies think this electic for charging EV is coming from or where going to get new batteries.?
or dispose of older ones. Ciyde Lewis talked about 3 miles radius communities.like in the 50s etc .When us oldsters lived within walking distance of schools and neigborhood stores;;;; long before Malls etc and the urban or suburban sprawl. But all might work if 90% of population perishes. or thru FEAR..... but I dont dwell on such. can't find many folks who care
also Man is doing lots of bad stuff to our planet like cutting down lots of trees esp the Rain Forest. , use of endless plastics''' Yeah yall know why. we all could do better esp in the way we consume and esp What we Eat. Cant believe the mainstream media etc. we mankind have been lied to for centuries
I'll jump off my Soap box now, Blessings to all
Ok yes currently allot of our power still comes from fossil fuels but that percentage is quickly dropping. And coal. Is very quickly being replaced by natural gas for the part that is still natural gas. But regardless electric vehicles use the power much more efficiently than ice vehicles.

As far as the batteries go yes they need to be produced. But they are recycled not disposed of.

I completely agree we absolutely are not ready to replace ICE vehicles with EVs at this point. But I really don't understand the resistance to working on getting there by anyone but oil companies.
 
I completely agree we absolutely are not ready to replace ICE vehicles with EVs at this point. But I really don't understand the resistance to working on getting there by anyone but oil companies.

And yet the Chinese (largest car market in the world) and the Europeans (third largest car market in the world) have started doing just that. The Chinese are at 40% EVs for new car sales, and the Europeans are at 20%. While the US lags (perhaps due to is low oil prices, and being a major oil producer) we are at 6% on new car sales.

And this is not a case of some 'crazies' or silly politicians forcing EVs down everyone's throats. Nearly every global car makers has looked at the tech (EV vs ICE) and decided that ICE will not compete in the future with EV, and are switching as fast as they can.

What do we know that they don't know?
 
And yet the Chinese (largest car market in the world) and the Europeans (third largest car market in the world) have started doing just that. The Chinese are at 40% EVs for new car sales, and the Europeans are at 20%. While the US lags (perhaps due to is low oil prices, and being a major oil producer) we are at 6% on new car sales.

And this is not a case of some 'crazies' or silly politicians forcing EVs down everyone's throats. Nearly every global car makers has looked at the tech (EV vs ICE) and decided that ICE will not compete in the future with EV, and are switching as fast as they can.

What do we know that they don't know?
Oh don't get me wrong many people could easily make the switch at this point here with no problems at all . But for me I am mainly driving commercial vehicles and we simply don't have options in that area yet. I really don't think it will take very long until we do they just aren't here yet. But our personal vehicles we certainly could and may when it's time to replace my wife's vehicle
 
Oh don't get me wrong many people could easily make the switch at this point here with no problems at all . But for me I am mainly driving commercial vehicles and we simply don't have options in that area yet. I really don't think it will take very long until we do they just aren't here yet. But our personal vehicles we certainly could and may when it's time to replace my wife's vehicle
Would you have electric capacity at home/shop to charge your work vehicles as well as personal ones?
 
Would you have electric capacity at home/shop to charge your work vehicles as well as personal ones?
Yes easily. I just updated to 440 3 phase in the shop. So lots of power. The house could easily handle a single charger. They were running 3 phase past us for a new hog barn and offered to hook me up for $1500 and without the normal commercial minimum charge. So why not.
 
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its called social credit scores.. look up" communitariusm" not sure I spelled it correctly... All "for the Greater good". Right ... good for the elite that is...but not us useless eaters also us serfs or peasants They them those will control us masses with rationing of food etc.
those who think electric vehicles are the way to go have their heads up their behinds. Where do the crazies think this electic for charging EV is coming from or where going to get new batteries.?
or dispose of older ones. Ciyde Lewis talked about 3 miles radius communities.like in the 50s etc .When us oldsters lived within walking distance of schools and neigborhood stores;;;; long before Malls etc and the urban or suburban sprawl. But all might work if 90% of population perishes. or thru FEAR..... but I dont dwell on such. can't find many folks who care
also Man is doing lots of bad stuff to our planet like cutting down lots of trees esp the Rain Forest. , use of endless plastics''' Yeah yall know why. we all could do better esp in the way we consume and esp What we Eat. Cant believe the mainstream media etc. we mankind have been lied to for centuries
I'll jump off my Soap box now, Blessings to all
 
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From my perspective, there is one legitimate concern with our electric future, EV's being but one part of that. Home and office heating being another major component.

That concern is related to the national security and reliability of our power utilities. Everyone is talking about our aging "grid", which is good, but the delivery system is only half the equation, and the oft-discussed weather and aging-related failures are only half the concern.

Our generation plants and substations are also terribly vulnerable to both failure and sabotage, this week's substation shooting in NC being just one of many major recent examples of the problem. Last year's record-breaking outages in Texas's rare sub-freezing weather is another.

If we are going to rely on electric power delivery for our vehicle and home heating fuel needs, it simply must be more reliable than what we have today. Although this is not my area of work or study, due to family connections and my profession, I'm a fly on the wall in many conversations regarding electric utility generation and distribution management. I can tell you that all the media hype about grid capacity is not our biggest concern, it is reliability, so that you don't find yourself a dead EV and cold home when a weather or national emergency strikes mid-winter.
 
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I'm a fly on the wall in many conversations regarding electric utility generation and distribution management. I can tell you that all the media hype about grid capacity is not our biggest concern, it is reliability, so that you don't find yourself a dead EV and cold home when a weather or national emergency strikes mid-winter.
One of the largest problems utilities face in densely populated areas is a sub-par transmission system, our current system is archaic in terms of actual ties and system voltages multiple small generation units, without getting in to far into the rabbit hole, technology is advancing and many companies are now testing large scale battery storage units, more or less storage in the megawatt size range, this helps the bigger picture of solar and wind storage since right now the strategy is to just offset local fossil generation directly (using power generation plants batteries), but we're missing a key piece which is large generation (for when the "green" energy is offline) and a transmission system capable of being intertied within itself to transfer power from one area to another with the correct phasing so all area's can seamlessly bleed into each other without interruption (bumps), the idea would be to have the ability to shift battery storage power to area's that need the peak demand bump via transmission lines, but still be able to maintain our systems "a" phase at 60hertz wave length and match that same hertz 200miles away daisy chained together.
 
From what little I see on the news the damaged substation is a medium outdoor distribution voltage switchyard. It may have a 133 kilovolt(KV) feed with possibly some intermediate voltage circuits (64 or 28 KV) and then local distribution (13.8KV). For a comparison, the voltage in the power lines in a typical street are 13.8KV. High voltage needs lots of clearance space around conductors as it really would prefer jumping to ground than staying cooped up in a cable. That is why switchyards take up a lot of space. There is also the potential for a lot of current going through cables and that creates heat that needs to be gotten rid of. Its also easier to maintain clearances to live equipment (If needed) outdoors. The gear could be indoors and is in some rare circumstances, but the cost is orders of magnitude higher than outdoor gear and the rate payers pay for it.

Most utilities are regulated utilities, that have to answer to state regulatory bodies to justify their transmission costs. They get a guaranteed profit on every dime they spend, so their investors may be all in spending billions but the ratepayers who have to fund it may not like or be able to pay substantially higher electric bills every month of the year every year for what is a very rare occurrence. Far better to manage that risk and keep the rates low. Sure, someone could be at each substation 24/7 bored out of their skull, but that would not stop "bubba" from doing target practice from several hundred feet off. Even if the guard sees it happening is he/she going to be equipped with armor and weapons to deal with "bubba"? Odds are they will not, so all the guard is going to do is maybe collect evidence, but the utility will know in milliseconds that the plant is tripped, long before the guard wakes up.

There definitely will be an investigation of how the utility responded to this deliberate act of sabotage and my guess is at least part of it will go back to supply chain. Up until Covid the way to drive costs of any system was to go"just in time". Why keep a warehouse full of spares locally which costs money when they can be bought from a big central warehouse that is serving multiple utilities?. So the utility pares back on local spares. What has happened since Covid (and even before) is the number of firms actually making specialized switchgear is shrinking and a lot of it is offshore as labor and materials is cheaper. These offshore firms are also dependent on their suppliers and Covid is not necessarily over in those countries so the entire chain is stretch thin. Now add in various large hurricanes in the US like Ian, In many cases the utilities are having to start from close to scratch rebuilding hundreds of switchyards like the one in NC. Throw in Puerto Rico (a US territory) losing its grid almost yearly of late. There really is not enough supply chain worldwide to support these disasters, so it comes down to whomever yells loudest with enough political power gets the gear. What normally happens is the utility has some gear locked away for critical spares but only for routine occurrences and they try to "borrow" gear from other utilities but with what is going on with the weather utilities are far more reluctant to lend gear as if they get caught with their pants down after lending gear out that is needed locally, someone gets fired (or retired if they are high enough in management.

I have experienced supply chain issues on a recent small, combined heat power project, things that we used to be able to get off the shelf or in weeks are now booked out in months or years. We needed a small station transformer much smaller than what was at that substation to supply 460 volt power to the equipment in the station needed to run the turbine and associated equipment, This was a nothing special transformer used all over the place to supply large businesses and institutions. The contractor had estimated pre covid a new one with a 3 month delivery. The project was delayed and by the time they ordered it, the delivery was 18 months. We needed one quicker, so we ended up buying a used transformer that was "rebuilt". Typically, with a small transformer like this, a rebuild is test a used transformer to see if its good or not, drain the oil, replace a few seals, fill it up with oil and give it a paint job. At best the guarantee is 60 days and the cost was 20% higher than new. They probably bought it from a scrapper for scrap value but they could get it to us quicker. We also had issues getting some switchgear and had to rent some to get the plant running until the intended equipment showed up 6 months late.

It doesn't take a lot of schooling or training to knock out a power substation. Somewhat like breaking and egg, the breaking is the easy part, the tough part is putting it back together. Someone could and probably has written a basic set of instructions on how to do so and its probably out on the web. I used "bubba" earlier, that has a southern connotation, but we got "bubbas" up north. A couple of bubbas one day were out hunting and didnt get their deer so they decided to do some target practice at these big insulators on a power line up in the woods along the NH VT border. They hit one and took out a 1000 MW DC line from Canada to the US. It took 3 days to fix it and the economic cost was in excess of 50 million. The authorities did eventually arrest them but beyond a short stay in jail and some public defenders time, they couldnt get money out of turnip so the ratepayers pay higher bills.

On the other hand, us "resilient" folks out in the sticks drag out the generator they bought for $500 after Y2K (1/1/2000) and use it run the house while we sit in front of the woodstove/wood boiler/pellet stove. Or in the case of someone with solar panels and newer technology that accepts a home battery, they barely see a flicker. In my case, I need to flip a couple of switches and run off my solar trailer which is backed up by a diesel and will form a microgrid with my other grid tied solar arrays. I produce surplus power most of the year so I would charge my hybrid off the system when the sun was generating more than I was using. If I wanted to automate it, I could so I would not need to flip those switches. There was the town in Florida that was directly in the path of Ian that barely saw a blip in their power systems because they built a city wide solar microgrid with battery storage similar to my house system on much larger scale, it can be done as long as someone is willing to pay extra compared to regular power service. Bubba in the trailer park will probably chose far lower rates and hope the power does not go out and then rely on a tenuous social safety net to keep the alive. Note the substation is now back on line, standard resiliency recomendations is that someone should have a minimum of three days of survival gear ready to go in case of major storm or unexpected disaster so they would have been set. Sure the news likes to hype everything to get eyeballs but people have to figure out that at some point and probably more often these days they may be out on their own.

I have put in six combined heat and power plants in the last 8 years, two for hospitals and four for large industrial plants, they are all microgrids that can run independently from the grid as long as they have fuel. All six of them can flip a switch and run independent of the power grid. Five run on natural gas, the last one on gas, oil or to a limited amount, propane. They could easily add solar arrays and batteries for storage. Five are so called bumpless transfer plants, when the grid goes away the lights do not turn off. On the last one they have to wait five minutes and flip a switch to run off the grid and then shut down for five minutes when they go back on the grid. The hospitals did it for combination of energy savings and resiliency for a long term grid outage, one of the industrial plants could care less about efficiency but needed reliable power in an area with crappy power quality and the other three really just wanted the energy efficiency. We delivered that to all six. At one plant that is fed by a long power line run through the woods, a large piece of equipment shut down one night after a storm, they called in the electrical superintendent as the equipment would not start up. He came in and it took him awhile to figure out that the power line feeding the plant had been taken down by a tree a couple of hours earlier and that were running off grid and no one knew it. The big piece of equipment was wired to turn off in that case as they can run for half day without it and trying to get it to restart would be real hard on the generator. They now have set of lights on the wall of the control room to tell them if the grid drops out (even though its pretty obvious on the control screen).
 
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We have been hearing infrastructure needs improvements for a long time. Yes people will be caught in prepared. Yes there will be losses, lives a property. I believe it is is the governments responsibility to take care of those who are unprepared irrespective the reason they find themselves in that situation.
From what little I see on the news the damaged substation is a medium outdoor distribution voltage switchyard. It may have a 133 kilovolt(KV) feed with possibly some intermediate voltage circuits (64 or 28 KV) and then local distribution (13.8KV). For a comparison, the voltage in the power lines in a typical street are 13.8KV. High voltage needs lots of clearance space around conductors as it really would prefer jumping to ground than staying cooped up in a cable. That is why switchyards take up a lot of space. There is also the potential for a lot of current going through cables and that creates heat that needs to be gotten rid of. Its also easier to maintain clearances to live equipment (If needed) outdoors. The gear could be indoors and is in some rare circumstances, but the cost is orders of magnitude higher than outdoor gear and the rate payers pay for it.

Most utilities are regulated utilities, that have to answer to state regulatory bodies to justify their transmission costs. They get a guaranteed profit on every dime they spend, so their investors may be all in spending billions but the ratepayers who have to fund it may not like or be able to pay substantially higher electric bills every month of the year every year for what is a very rare occurrence. Far better to manage that risk and keep the rates low. Sure, someone could be at each substation 24/7 bored out of their skull, but that would not stop "bubba" from doing target practice from several hundred feet off. Even if the guard sees it happening is he/she going to be equipped with armor and weapons to deal with "bubba"? Odds are they will not, so all the guard is going to do is maybe collect evidence, but the utility will know in milliseconds that the plant is tripped, long before the guard wakes up.

There definitely will be an investigation of how the utility responded to this deliberate act of sabotage and my guess is at least part of it will go back to supply chain. Up until Covid the way to drive costs of any system was to go"just in time". Why keep a warehouse full of spares locally which costs money when they can be bought from a big central warehouse that is serving multiple utilities?. So the utility pares back on local spares. What has happened since Covid (and even before) is the number of firms actually making specialized switchgear is shrinking and a lot of it is offshore as labor and materials is cheaper. These offshore firms are also dependent on their suppliers and Covid is not necessarily over in those countries so the entire chain is stretch thin. Now add in various large hurricanes in the US like Ian, In many cases the utilities are having to start from close to scratch rebuilding hundreds of switchyards like the one in NC. Throw in Puerto Rico (a US territory) losing its grid almost yearly of late. There really is not enough supply chain worldwide to support these disasters, so it comes down to whomever yells loudest with enough political power gets the gear. What normally happens is the utility has some gear locked away for critical spares but only for routine occurrences and they try to "borrow" gear from other utilities but with what is going on with the weather utilities are far more reluctant to lend gear as if they get caught with their pants down after lending gear out that is needed locally, someone gets fired (or retired if they are high enough in management.

I have experienced supply chain issues on a recent small, combined heat power project, things that we used to be able to get off the shelf or in weeks are now booked out in months or years. We needed a small station transformer much smaller than what was at that substation to supply 460 volt power to the equipment in the station needed to run the turbine and associated equipment, This was a nothing special transformer used all over the place to supply large businesses and institutions. The contractor had estimated pre covid a new one with a 3 month delivery. The project was delayed and by the time they ordered it, the delivery was 18 months. We needed one quicker, so we ended up buying a used transformer that was "rebuilt". Typically, with a small transformer like this, a rebuild is test a used transformer to see if its good or not, drain the oil, replace a few seals, fill it up with oil and give it a paint job. At best the guarantee is 60 days and the cost was 20% higher than new. They probably bought it from a scrapper for scrap value but they could get it to us quicker. We also had issues getting some switchgear and had to rent some to get the plant running until the intended equipment showed up 6 months late.

It doesn't take a lot of schooling or training to knock out a power substation. Somewhat like breaking and egg, the breaking is the easy part, the tough part is putting it back together. Someone could and probably has written a basic set of instructions on how to do so and its probably out on the web. I used "bubba" earlier, that has a southern connotation, but we got "bubbas" up north. A couple of bubbas one day were out hunting and didnt get their deer so they decided to do some target practice at these big insulators on a power line up in the woods along the NH VT border. They hit one and took out a 1000 MW DC line from Canada to the US. It took 3 days to fix it and the economic cost was in excess of 50 million. The authorities did eventually arrest them but beyond a short stay in jail and some public defenders time, they couldnt get money out of turnip so the ratepayers pay higher bills.

On the other hand, us "resilient" folks out in the sticks drag out the generator they bought for $500 after Y2K (1/1/2000) and use it run the house while we sit in front of the woodstove/wood boiler/pellet stove. Or in the case of someone with solar panels and newer technology that accepts a home battery, they barely see a flicker. In my case, I need to flip a couple of switches and run off my solar trailer which is backed up by a diesel and will form a microgrid with my other grid tied solar arrays. I produce surplus power most of the year so I would charge my hybrid off the system when the sun was generating more than I was using. If I wanted to automate it, I could so I would not need to flip those switches. There was the town in Florida that was directly in the path of Ian that barely saw a blip in their power systems because they built a city wide solar microgrid with battery storage similar to my house system on much larger scale, it can be done as long as someone is willing to pay extra compared to regular power service. Bubba in the trailer park will probably chose far lower rates and hope the power does not go out and then rely on a tenuous social safety net to keep the alive. Note the substation is now back on line, standard resiliency recomendations is that someone should have a minimum of three days of survival gear ready to go in case of major storm or unexpected disaster so they would have been set. Sure the news likes to hype everything to get eyeballs but people have to figure out that at some point and probably more often these days they may be out on their own.

I have put in six combined heat and power plants in the last 8 years, two for hospitals and four for large industrial plants, they are all microgrids that can run independently from the grid as long as they have fuel. All six of them can flip a switch and run independent of the power grid. Five run on natural gas, the last one on gas, oil or to a limited amount, propane. They could easily add solar arrays and batteries for storage. Five are so called bumpless transfer plants, when the grid goes away the lights do not turn off. On the last one they have to wait five minutes and flip a switch to run off the grid and then shut down for five minutes when they go back on the grid. The hospitals did it for combination of energy savings and resiliency for a long term grid outage, one of the industrial plants could care less about efficiency but needed reliable power in an area with crappy power quality and the other three really just wanted the energy efficiency. We delivered that to all six. At one plant that is fed by a long power line run through the woods, a large piece of equipment shut down one night after a storm, they called in the electrical superintendent as the equipment would not start up. He came in and it took him awhile to figure out that the power line feeding the plant had been taken down by a tree a couple of hours earlier and that were running off grid and no one knew it. The big piece of equipment was wired to turn off in that case as they can run for half day without it and trying to get it to restart would be real hard on the generator. They now have set of lights on the wall of the control room to tell them if the grid drops out (even though its pretty obvious on the control screen).
They were 230kV switch/transformer yards. I’m impressed they got it back online in the time they did.

I don’t see how one could harden these yards to small arms fire. Best you could do is visually obscure line of sight

For those with means vehicle to house/grid and or house battery backup will be the new automatic backup generators. The tech is here.
 
I don’t see how one could harden these yards to small arms fire. Best you could do is visually obscure line of sight
Those of a certain age will remember Columbine in 1999 as the first of a now-long string of school shootings and other mass shootings in our national news. There had actually been many school shootings prior to this, but coverage of this event makes it the one that really put the idea into the modern national consciousness. I also think you'd have to be kidding yourself to not believe that media coverage of this and similar events does not promote and lead to more copy-cat incidents, to the point where I believe the news media has a lot of culpability in the accelerated proliferation of these events, while they profit off of them.

Unfortunately, I believe that the coverage of this substation incident could similarly cause more such copy-cat incidents. We will know soon enough if this event, which few could have even imagined someone doing previously, becomes a new part of our regular news.