How to recognize normal operation vs a real problem

[AlexNY]

I have recently started using a new EPA cert stove after many many years using a 30 year old simple two chamber air tight, and I am trying to debug some possible issues.

At this point my only concern is emissions from the stack, because I do not want to become a nuisance to my neighbours.

Efficiency and total heat output is not an immediate issue because I have much more wood than I could possibly need for my home and I hardly sleep anyway so frequent re-loading is not a problem.

I complained to the installer and he told me it is probably my wood, so I tested my hearthstone "heritage" stove with three types of wood:

1) "Perfect wood" (i.e. 6 x 12in pieces of kiln dried 2x4 lumber and some dry kindling):
* My old Jotul combifire 4 would light in 10 seconds using a few sheets of newspaper. After 2 minutes it would produce zero emissions from the stack (i.e. looking at the stack you would see nothing but heat waves). After 45 minutes there was nothing left but ash.
* My new hearthstone "heritage" requires a starter brick to light, and the side door needs to be cracked open for about 5 minutes until the fire is established. There is substantial smoke at first, which dies down to a "low level" of smoke after ~15 minutes, but at no point during the entire burn cycle does the smoke from the stack disappear entirely. There is a nice visible flame (even after the loading door is closed), and the flame changes size in response to moving the air control. The burn time is long (about 1:30) even though much of the wood is left unburned after the fire has died.

2) "Acceptable wood" (i.e. 6 x arms length + arms width wedges of split oak air dried for 12 months in an ordered stack, partial shade and uncovered but no ground contact, and some dry kindling)
* My old Jotul combifire 4 would fully light in a few minutes using a starter brick, and after 10 minutes there would be zero emissions from the stack. The fire would last ~1:30.
* My new hearthstone "heritage" is very difficult to start using a firebrick + this wood, it requires that the side door be left open for ~20 minutes or the fire will die out. Smoke is heavy for the entire ~2 hour burn. Eventually the fire dies with much of the wood still smoking and unburned.

3) "Poor wood" (i.e. palm sized wedges of oak air dried for 6 months)
* My old Jotul combifire 4 would fully light in 15 minutes with a starter brick, but it would take 30 minutes until the stack was fully smoke free.
* My new hearthstone "heritage" is impossible to light with this wood.

My question is simply, is this kind of performance normal for EPA cert wood stoves?

By the way, what do those tubes at the top of the stove do? In my "heritage", they do not appear to do anything at any point in the burn. The dealer told me I would see jets of fire coming from them, but at no point in burning kiln dried or air dried wood was there any sign that those tubes were doing anything.

OK, I have been fighting with this thing for two days, I am going to sleep. The dealer's advice to use wet cloth + ashes to clean the ceramic door works really well, by the way. I look forward to not having to buy expensive glass cleaner.

Thanks for your help.

 

[Fsappo]

Once my boss lets me fire up a stove in the showroom, I'm gonna burn my Heritage more so I can compare notes. I have been using the Mansfield as my wood burning display most of the time. My chimney does go straight up thru the roof, so we will be looking at a good draft. Wood is over a year split and stacked indoors, so I know it's dry. In general, every EPA certified stove I've burned in the past has had a nice reburn at those air tubes and would burn virtually smoke free after being lit for a half hour or so. If your close to Central NY, you'd be welcome to see how our stove operates in our showroom, or maybe I can stop by one night after work and just tinker with yours.

 

[Wet1]

My guess at this point it that you might have an issue with your stove/install, but that you also need to learn your new stove. The other big part to this is the wood. You'll need to have a good hot fire to get those secondary burn tubes to light off. The kiln dried stuff should do it if you have the stove up to temp (say 500°+ at the top?). I don't know that model well, so maybe some of the Heritage owners could give some exact numbers. But once you get the box good and hot, you should see flames coming out of those tubes.

The other (possibly main) issue is your wood. EPA stoves are fussy about moisture content. I'd bet the farm that your "Acceptable Wood" mentioned above (#2), is not truly acceptable, and certainly not so for #3. Oak takes longer than that to get below 20% MC... usually about 2 or 3 years. 6 months or even a year wont cut it, and it certainly wont burn well in an EPA stove.

The fact that you have to clean the door already supports that you're burning wet wood.

 

[Pagey]

My EPA certified Endeavor will only produce smoke on two occasions: lighting up with a cold stove and during the first few minutes of reloading on a bed of coals after a burn cycle has completed. Once the stove top is up to temp (around 400F or so), I can slide the bypass damper closed, and I immediately have secondary combustion and only heat waves from the flue. It seems to be the happiest and cleanest burning with a stove top temp of 600F to 650F. With a full load of seasoned hard woods, I can have a coal bed 8 hours later which will require no kindling to restart. I would say that I can get about 5 hours of true, meaningful heat on a full load of hard wood in the coldest snaps.

 

[AlexNY]

I live on Long Island, so too far, but thanks for the help.

A friend of mine has a Lopi and he tells me that he has to prop the door open for 20 min or so to get a burn using 18 month wood, even though the manual says to never operate with the door open. Actually, my manual also says to never operate the stove with the door open, and yet the dealer recommends exactly the opposite. Everyone is so afraid of law suits, its hard to know what advice is real and what advice is just "covering my behind" if you know what I mean.

I have 6 chords of wood that is mixed between kiln dried lumber (5%), 18 month air dried (50%), and summer dried wood (45%). I can still use this thing, even if it is as bad as I now fear, as long as I can get fires going in it using the better wood and then re-load with the summer stuff.

But I can't do anything if it belches smoke all winter, my neighbours would hate me.

 

[Pagey]

I have about 4.5' of double wall stove pipe, then another 15' of UL103 HT Class A, and it's a straight shot to the roof. About 4.5' of that Class A clears the roof. I never have a problem with draft. I will say this: my fires do start faster if I leave the door cracked. And when I say cracked, I mean enough to see a tiny sliver of fire along the left side of the door. Not open as in you can cram your fist in the stove. It will start without the door cracked, but it's faster to leave that little sliver there till I hit 300F on the stovetop and then close her up. I start most of my fires with a base of 3 seasoned pine splits, 4 wads of newspaper, and pine bark, scraps on top of that. I finish the pile off with a final piece of newspaper on top to start my draft.

 

[Wet1]

You're having issues and the stove is belching smoke for the same reason... your wood is too wet. Go to the store and buy a few bundles of truely seasoned wood, load it up and I think you'll see different results (assuming it's actually dry).

 

[AlexNY]

... you also need to learn your new stove. The other big part to this is the wood. You'll need to have a good hot fire to get those secondary burn tubes to light off. The kiln dried stuff should do it if you have the stove up to temp (say 500°+ at the top?). I don't know that model well, so maybe some of the Heritage owners could give some exact numbers. But once you get the box good and hot, you should see flames coming out of those tubes. ...

I think you are right. I am used to an older stove that was incredibly accommodating as far as what it would burn, and so I was unprepared for these new "works of art" stoves that are more temperamental decorations than serious heating appliances. Fortunately, I have a very large stack (probably 1/2 chord) of kiln dried lumber left over from building a pirate ship tree house for my son, so I can get the 3 chords "acceptable wood" burning by using kiln dried wood as starter. The 3 chords "poor" wood can wait until next year, I have already noticed that the "heritage" is just not very hungry, so I will not need more than half of my six chords total supply.

The other possible problem is the stove manual, it has dozens of pages devoted to what you should NOT do, it just has me spooked. They have so many warnings about not "over firing" the unit that I am scared of my own shadow. You mention 500F temperatures, but the tiny fires I have been making in this delicate little doll house would never reach that point.

I would literally stuff my old Jotul with wood, but with the "hearthstone" I have been building little camp-fires in the middle of it.

Tonight I am building a real fire in that thing, with an armful of wood.

 

[SmokingAndPoking]

I think you're missing the point of how the new clean burning, tubular secondary combustion stoves burn. The idea is that you must first heat the entire unit up and establish a good bed of active coals. Once this has been accomplished, you can add fresh wood, char the wood and then set your air control wherever you want it for the heat output level you desire. Your new stove is soapstone and it will take a good while to get all of that cold stone and cast iron hot. The reason that heat is so important to the equation is because a hot firebox preheats secondary combustion air. A cold stove introduces ice cold secondary combustion air into the secondary combustion area which generally will not react with the smoke as secondary combustion. You won't see those nice jets of flame from the tubes until you get the stove much, much warmer. That is the nature of the new style secondary combustion stoves.

Build a nice hot kindling fire. Burn it down to good active coals. Add some small, dry splits. Burn them to good active coals. At this point, the unit is quite warm and ready for a full load of nice, seasoned large splits. Load them, char for 10-15 minutes or more and then shut the air control down to where you need it. If everything is working correctly, the flames will move to the top of the firebox amongst the tubes.

 

[Wet1]

Hopefully some of the other Heritage owners will step in and let you know what this stove likes/needs. But my guess is you don't have a big enough fire going to come close to reaching the required temps for the magic to start (secondary combustion). Using that wet oak WILL cause you problems. You also have to be careful not to over-fire your stove with kiln dried wood. I'm not a big fan of soapstone for this reason, it can and will crack of pushed (although other materials fail when pushed too, but it's hard to beat steel in this regard). Again, hopefully other Heritage owners will step in with more info for you.

 

[Pagey]

I can honestly say that I do not feel as though my stove is "not a serious heating appliance". I feel it is a serious heating appliance, as we cut our electric bills in half last winter. The stove cruises around 650F with a load of seasoned hard wood, and I can usually achieve secondary combustion within 30 minutes from a cold stove.

I honestly think you have a mechanical problem with the stove that is in some way restricting air flow.

 

[AlexNY]

I can honestly say that I do not feel as though my stove is "not a serious heating appliance". I feel it is a serious heating appliance, as we cut our electric bills in half last winter. The stove cruises around 650F with a load of seasoned hard wood, and I can usually achieve secondary combustion within 30 minutes from a cold stove.

I honestly think you have a mechanical problem with the stove that is in some way restricting air flow.

Sorry, did not mean to offend, I suppose my frustration is showing through. I bought the hearthstone "heritage" as an upgrade to a working system, and now all I can dream about is my old Jotul. In practice, I am getting older, and the labour needed to run the Jotul probably would not have been practical for too much longer (to heat my entire 2200sq ft house 100% with firewood required 4-5 chords of wood per year, and I harvest myself, which gets hard after 40).

Even if I end up heating 50% with the wood stove/50% with oil like you do, it is probably for the best in the long run. And I suppose the fire is nice to look at.

I had expected improvements from the newer unit, and instead I got trade-offs. You can starve the heritage of oxygen and get a longer burn, BUT you have to use laboratory level dried wood or you get no burn. You do not need as much wood for the heritage, BUT you need to complement by using an accessory form of heat. You can see a lovely fire, BUT you have to tiptoe around the thing or the soapstone cracks and you are out of luck.

For $5000 and 30 years of technology improvement, I had expected more. Depressing. It feels like wood burning is like NASA, desperately trying to do in 10 years what we could easily do 30 years ago.

 

[Pagey]

Oh, I'm not offended at all. I was just pointing out that for us, we consider our EPA stove to be a serious source of heat. It appears to have been a good installation of a mechanically sound stove, and it performs as promised. I don't find it any more or less complicated to operate than my dad's old Fisher step stove, for example. For us, "it just works," basically.

I don't blame you one bit for being upset. That's a lot of money to spend for the stove not to perform as promised and/or expected. Hopefully it's something simple and mechanical that will be remedied. I hope you get it fixed, and I hope it becomes a serious heater for you.

 

[SmokingAndPoking]

Don't get too into this laboratory dried wood kick! Remember, EPA test fuel is 19-25% moisture content. I think you're just stuck in the learning curve of this stove. Plenty of people are having great results and once you figure it out, you'll be thrilled.

 

[BrotherBart]

Yep. Everybody from first time burners to seasoned wood burners go through a learning curve with any new stove. I did and thousands that have passed through here have. One fact is that used right that Heritage will kick a CombiFire's old, tired, looks like an idol on an island reality show, cast iron butt in heating, reduction of wood consumption and smoke.

Just don't get so uptight about it taking a little time. The old one did too, you just don't remember it because running it just got to be second nature after a while. My new stove drove me nuts the first season because with the old one I could set an overnight burn half asleep or half drunk. The last half. My wife reminded me that I went through the same thing with it 25 years ago.

 

[AlexNY]

Yep. Everybody from first time burners to seasoned wood burners go through a learning curve with any new stove. I did and thousands that have passed through here have.

Yes, I understand that now.

I will add one thought. Here is the matrix that I am getting from wiser heads, comparing 30 year old air tights to todays EPA certs stoves:

If everything works perfectly, they both burn with no emissions.
If the wood is not ultra dry, old > new (new EPA certs basically become smoke machines with wood that is not ~2 years dry)
If the air control is not totally open new > old (new EPA certs can operate with the air control closed, old stoves become smoke machines if they are air starved)
If you care about looks, new > old (new stoves are attractive and you can see a fire)
If you care about reliability, old > new (new stoves are delicate and tempermental, old stoves were almost indestructible)

This is what I call a SIDE-grade, not an UP-grade. Some advantages, some disadvantages.

I think there would be less unhappiness among experienced wood burners if organizations such as "woodheat.org" as well as US and Canadian government organizations were more forthright about the advantages AND disadvantages of new EPA cert stoves relative to older technologies. In particular, the requirement for ultra low moisture in wood largely eliminates the possibility of collecting firewood oneself. For people like me, who burn mostly for environmental reasons, buying is a huge problem since it threatens dwindling forest land. Every inch of wood that has heated my house has come from trees that were felled by neighbors for building decks, pools, whatever ... that simply does not work if I have to leave wood drying for 2 years before I can use it. My wood is a mix of 18 month and 6 month air dry + some kiln dry, which is better than most anyone I know, and it still is not "good enough" for the EPA cert.

I will adapt to the new "EPA cert" princess in my living room, but I will never warm to her.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

I can honestly say that I do not feel as though my stove is "not a serious heating appliance". I feel it is a serious heating appliance, as we cut our electric bills in half last winter. The stove cruises around 650F with a load of seasoned hard wood, and I can usually achieve secondary combustion within 30 minutes from a cold stove.

I honestly think you have a mechanical problem with the stove that is in some way restricting air flow.

Sorry, did not mean to offend, I suppose my frustration is showing through. I bought the hearthstone "heritage" as an upgrade to a working system, and now all I can dream about is my old Jotul. In practice, I am getting older, and the labour needed to run the Jotul probably would not have been practical for too much longer (to heat my entire 2200sq ft house 100% with firewood required 4-5 chords of wood per year, and I harvest myself, which gets hard after 40).

Even if I end up heating 50% with the wood stove/50% with oil like you do, it is probably for the best in the long run. And I suppose the fire is nice to look at.

I had expected improvements from the newer unit, and instead I got trade-offs. You can starve the heritage of oxygen and get a longer burn, BUT you have to use laboratory level dried wood or you get no burn. You do not need as much wood for the heritage, BUT you need to complement by using an accessory form of heat. You can see a lovely fire, BUT you have to tiptoe around the thing or the soapstone cracks and you are out of luck.

For $5000 and 30 years of technology improvement, I had expected more. Depressing. It feels like wood burning is like NASA, desperately trying to do in 10 years what we could easily do 30 years ago.

Welcome to the forum Alex from NY.

I've been shaking my head ever since I started reading this thread and all the posts with it. Yet, I know what frustrations can do and you have one.

Let me say that we also bought a new stove 2 years ago after heating for many, many years with several different stoves. There were a few things that frustrated us at first but the learning curve is very, very short. Some we learned from others including the manufacturer and some we learned on our own, but we got the stove working and are simply amazed at the difference in heat output from this little stove. I say little because it is very small compared to our previous stove.

For your size home, 4-5 cords (not chords) of wood should not be considered too much wood but is perhaps a little on the high side. It all depends upon the weather and how well your home is insulated along with how warm you want it indoors.

You expected improvements but got trade-offs?! That should not be as you definitely should get improvements. Perhaps you are just so frustrated that you need more time. Definitely if you are trying to burn all oak, then you very well may be trying to burn wood that should not be burned yet. I say that it should not be burned yet and that includes in an old stove! What is good for the new is also good for the old.

There simply is no reason that a wood burner should burn wood that has not had the proper amount of time for his wood to be properly seasoned. And that has nothing to do with a laboratory.

If you have to tiptoe so that the soapstone doesn't crack, then you bought the wrong stove or a defective one. There is no need to tiptoe around these things.

You mentioned your age and that you put up your own wood. I am 67 years old and last winter I still cut, split and stacked 9 cords (not chords) of wood. I plan on doing the same this winter if all goes well. Here is the good part. That wood that I put up last winter will not be burned for probably 4 years or so (depending on if I get rid of any in the meantime). Yes, we have a 7-8 year supply of wood on hand and love it. Personally, I feel if someone is heating with wood, that they should have a minimum supply of 2-3 years on hand at all times. Then they will know their wood is ready to burn.

Sorry about the rant. I really would rather encourage you to settle down. Read that manual again but don't put so much emphasis on what not to do. Learn what to do and if it takes a month to learn, so what? It is not dead winter yet. I predict you will learn how to operate that stove very quickly and sometime this winter you will be wondering why it took you so long to learn it.

I also predict that you will burn less wood with this stove than you have in the past, especially if you let that oak season for 3 years before burning it.

Good luck.

 

[BrotherBart]

If not just zip up to Hardwick, MA and pickup another of those "perfect" wood stoves and be happy. :lol:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Jotul-Combi-Fire-4_W0QQitemZ220497713312

 

[savageactor7]

Don't despair Alex you'll get the hang of it.

 

[fredarm]

Alex, I think you'll find a lot of people who post here put up some or all of their own wood, either by cutting on their own property and/or scrounging. I do about half my own, mostly standing dead oak thanks to a caterpillar infestation a couple of years ago, and half cut, split and delivered, much of which I re-split because the splits are too big for my little Vista insert. It took me a couple of months to really find out how my stove likes to burn, time in which I had trouble starting the stove or trouble getting it going after reloading. Even now I've been known to put too many too large splits in on a reload and half kill the fire. But what I have learned is to leave it alone and it will get going again in its own time. That was the hardest lesson to learn coming from burning in a fireplace--don't keep poking the stove. I find smaller splits make for easier starting and reloading. I make a kind of sandwich fire to start with--a bigger split in the back, a smaller split in the front, a couple of short pieces of kindling or a BioBrick on top of the splits north-south on each side of a firestarter in the middle, and then a couple of small splits on top, light it off and leave it alone. It will burn for an hour or so and then I'll reload with a bigger split in the back, a smaller split in the front and a couple on top and then its good for 3 or 4 hours. Once I have a good coal bed established I can load it up and get 5 to 6 hours from it--that's about the max for this stove. Remember, most of these EPA stoves burn from front to back due to the airwash that's used to keep the glass clean. Always put the smaller stuff in friont and the bigger stuff in the back. Keep trying and you'll get the hang of it.

 

[branchburner]

Alex, I feel your pain, but you've got two threads going and I'm a bit perplexed. One thread states you have a defective EPA stove, the other thread proposes EPA stoves aren't all they're cracked up to be based on your two-day experience. I don't understand how you can come to your conclusions about EPA stoves in general when the operational viability of your one specific stove is in question. You are making an awful lot of lemonade from one lemon! If your stove is broken, get it fixed, then try it out for a while, and then let us know if you still come to all the same conclusions.

 

[edthedawg]

+1, branchburner. This is a borked stove, and the dealer gotta fix it. plain and simple. once it's fixed, it's gonna work for the guy.

I pushed 4+ cords of crappy wetness thru my new Heritage last year and it stopped smoking, heated the house, cut our oil consumption by 70%, and didn't even clog up the flue too bad.

If an overthinking rook like me can do it, SO CAN YOU! it will run on crapwood but you just probably need to use a bit of extra kindling to get a strong draft going.

EPA stoves are not to be categorically dismissed like this. Sorry you got a bad stove. If your dealer refuses to fix it for some reason, then figure something else out. But please please please do these three things:
1 - GET IT FIXED
2 - try it out for at least a few fires
3 - keep running it til you get the hang of it

 

[firefighterjake]

Random thoughts . . .

Old stoves may have been simpler . . . but just like cars . . . most folks would consider to today's modern cars an improvement to the cars of the 1930s . . . heck, most would consider today's cars for sale to be an improvement from those of the 1970s and 1980s . . . since the cars today have better emissions, better fuel economy and are safer (and one could argue more comfortable and easier to use) . . . the same goes for the change in stoves . . . the stoves designed today burn cleaner, use less wood and are safer in some ways. Sure, the old stoves were simple to use (just like the older cars were simpler to work on for backyard mechanics) . . . but the trade up if you would is that you gain a lot from these newer products once you learn how to use them correctly . . . and there is most definitely a learning curve . . . albeit a short one . . . especially if you stick around and take some advice from the members here who have experience.

Old vs. new stoves . . . I disagree that old stoves could burn just as cleanly as the newer ones. Yes, using well seasoned wood would help and burning hot would help as well . . . but even today you can almost always tell if someone is using an older stove as there is almost always the tell-tale trail of smoke coming from the chimney. Newer stoves with the cats and secondary combustion action quite simply came into being for one reason -- not to be more efficient, not to offer a more spectacular light show, not to offer longer burns -- but rather because the EPA wanted woodstoves to emit less pollution/particulates in the smoke.

Reliability of old stoves vs. new . . . I disagree that old stoves are more reliable than new stoves. Old stoves could fail just as easily . . . the difference being that many folks didn't fully appreciate the idea of over-firing their stove and would think nothing of getting the old cast iron or steel stove to the point where it was glowing red. Do new stoves have more parts than a simple steel box? Yes . . . and generally with more parts comes more of a likelihood that things can break . . . but a person who is careful (i.e. not tossing in wood and slamming the door shut) and maintains their stove should be able to get just as many years out of their stove as they could with an older stove. Some things will need replacing in time (i.e. cats, gaskets, etc.) . . . but then again even older stoves needed certain things replaced over time. I think even now if you look back you can find some manufacturers that have had some stoves in use for 7-8 years or longer . . . I know for a fact there are a number of Oslo owners here who have had that stove for example for a number of years with very few problems.

Wood . . . yes, well seasoned wood is important in an EPA stove . . . but it should be important in a pre-EPA stove as well. Wet wood doesn't burn well . . . period. Last year I thought I had great wood -- a bunch of standing dead elm that I cut in the Summer. I thought it was great wood . . . but now having burned wood that was cut, split and stacked for a year or so and being able to get even hotter fires more quickly I realize I had good wood, not great wood. It is possible to burn in the new stoves with good wood . . . but burning great wood is even better. I do think more stove manufacturers and dealers need to spread the word on the importance of seasoning the wood though -- this is something dealers should be telling prospective customers the first time they walk in the door regardless of whether they buy a stove that day or whether they buy a stove from that dealer.

The Learning Process . . . it took me several weeks before I thought I could run my woodstove with few issues. It took me an entire winter before I realized how to run my woodstove efficiently. It will take me my entire life before I realize that I still have things I can learn about how to run and operate my woodstove . . . it truly is a learning process that takes time. However, I will go on record now and agree with Backwoods Savage and his prediction . . . I predict in a few weeks time you will learn how to operate your stove (assuming there is no defect in the stove or hook up) . . . you will be using less wood (although to tell the truth the first year burner often burns more wood the first year as they go through the learning process) and you will by the end of winter be offering hints and tips to other newbies.

 

[firefighterjake]

More thoughts . . .

I don't view my woodstove as an "accessory heater" -- for me it has turned out to be my main source of heat. Instead of the woodstove being my back-up heat source for weekends, evenings and power outages, it has replaced my three-year-old oil boiler as my go-to heater of choice since it pretty much heats the entire home (30 x 40 two story cape with a second floor) with the exception of the mudroom/utility room which houses the oil boiler, kitty litter boxes, hot water tank, etc. In this room I have a small electric space heater that I use . . . since I want to keep the pipes from freezing in that room . . . and I can't have my cat poop turning into poopsicles.

I really do think once you either figure out what is wrong with this stove or can get through this learning curve you will come to love the new stove and tech . . . it's just the process of getting there that may be a challenge. Going from one stove to another can be a challenge . . . going from old tech to new tech with a whole new stove can be even more challenging. However, once things click and you end up with long burns and good heat . . . and you see the secondary action kick in . . . I suspect you'll have one of those "ah ha" moments and will come to like the new tech.

I agree with some others . . . your problem could be your wood . . . but I think it's more likely a problem with the stove or simply the learning curve. While the EPA stoves prefer well seasoned wood they can still get up to temp with less than optimal wood . . . it just takes longer and the secondaries don't last as long.

Hmmm . . . I don't really consider my stove a "work of art" (although it's nice looking.) For me, the two main concerns I had in selecting a stove was whether the stove would heat my house and if it would be reliable. So far, things are working out well. Since I only used 60-70 gallons of heating oil last winter (my wife and I went on a 7-day vacation in middle of February last year and we set the oil thermostat to 60 degrees in case we're not around) I would consider my modern EPA stove to be a pretty serious heater.

Size matters with the secondary burners . . . too small a fire and you will not be able to reach the temps you need to get the secondaries firing off . . . too large a fire and you can damage to your stove. However, while size matters, longevity is also important . . . you'll have better luck in getting the wood to catch on fire and get heat quicker (and secondary action quicker) once a fire has been going for awhile and you're reloading vs. just hoping to get heat off one fire you started in a cold firebox. Smokey/Pokey and Wet1 offer some great advice on establishing a nice bed of coals . . . for me my first fire in a cold firebox is all about getting some coals . . . the reload is when I tend to get more meaningful and long-lasting heat.

Keep the faith Alex . . . we're pulling for ya.

 

[tutu_sue]

I have an EPA Jotul F3 stove and Hearthstone Heritage. I can't burn them the same way. The way the primary air gets into the stove is totally different, so I have to use different methods. In the Hearthstone, I can't lay big logs (>= 6 inches) down and have them start within a minute. The primary air comes in the 3 inch little bumpout in the front bottom of the stove. In my Jotul the air comes in from above the door and runs over a foot across the stove. Plus there is a start up air dial in the door. In the Tribute, I have to lay down some 3 inch splits and then bigger splits on top. As a matter of fact, don't put in anything bigger than 6 inches at the biggest cross section unless it's below freezing out and you have a deep coal bed across the entire firebox. To start my Tribute I take 12 to 15 kindling between 1 and 2 inches and make a diagonal tic tac toe board and then light a quarter of a super cedar. Once that whole thing is flaming, I slowly add 3 splits about 3 inches across and let those light up. Once the flame pattern changes and the tops of the flames get more wispy, transparent and start to flow downward a little bit, I know secondary combustion is going on. I can also verify that using my IR thermometer across the burning log and get temps over 500F across it. Only then do I try to turn the air down little by little. During the first load my stove top gets to like 250F. Then as soon as the flames go out on that load, I take my rake and move the coals a wee bit toward the front of the firebox, making sure that bump out (doghouse) where the air gets in is clear. Then I load in the splits. Two about 3 inches on the bottom and the rest about 4 to 5 inches across and get those going up to secondary temp. Once I turn that down, I get the slo mo inferno. My top gets to about 350 - 375 F on that and that's about how hot she ever gets. I get a nice 68 to 72F range with the air lever almost closed.