I can't use my beautiful new insert. Help!

[goawayoilman]

Greetings all.

Just this past summer, we got a wood burning fireplace insert installed in our two story cape with the hopes that we could see the oil man a little less frequently. It was working very well until the temps got very cold here (southern Maine 10-15 below with wind chill) and one day we noticed that our upstairs heating zone was not working. The man from the heating Co said that at first we had a bad valve for that zone which he replaced, but this did not work. He then thought we must have a freeze somewhere. Later that day it must have thawed itself, because it came back on. We chalked this up to the valve not working and started using the insert again. That same night we had the same problem in the morning. It then thawed itself out again in a day. We have not used the insert in the last 2-3 weeks for fear of the same thing happening and it has not. Tell me that there is something that I can do to use my $4000 investment and not live in fear of frozen pipes? I suppose I could not use it unless the temps outside are above 25 or so, but this seems to go against the whole reason we got it in the first place.

I have looked into getting antifreeze in the boiler, but this seems costly and corrosive to the copper pipes (we have forced hot water btw). ThermGuard? Seems to be a popular solution on some forums, but I don't know that I am totally sold on trusting a $70 device to keep my pipes from freezing? Sell me on it? Other suggestions? Thanks so much. Killing me that I can't make fires and it's so cold out.

 

[begreen]

It's very important to let the primary heating system cycle once in a while, especially to keep plumbing in the basement above freezing. In lieu of that you need some sort of space heater there. It can be set to a low temp like 40 or so. Also, work on sealing up leaks and drafts in the basement. If piping goes through a crawlspace it may need electric heat tape or more frequent cycling of the boiler. This may not be as economical as heating with wood alone, but it is a heckuva lot better than freezing pipes. As soon as temps get a bit more reasonable you can go back to wood alone.

Do you have a freeze alarm in the basement? If not I would get a wireless remote thermometer that has an alarm function and put it down there.

 

[clark77]

Try putting Hercules Cryo-tek 100 in your boiler system. Depending on the size of your system you'll prob use less than 5 gallons.

 

[Oldman47]

I can see that happening if your furnace thermostat sees your fireplace heat and responds by not turning on the boiler. In that case any boiler pipe that runs too close to the outside in extreme cold could freeze while the boiler just stays turned off. If you can figure out where that freezing is happening, maybe you could get some of your wood heat to that area. I am running a heat pump that uses water and antifreeze to work with ground water, a Water Furnace. The antifreeze is not the same crap they use in your car, it is basically an alcohol water mix good to about 0ºF. Don't be afraid of it.

 

[Dune]

Anti-freeze does have it's place. Sure, best if you don't need it, but it sounds like a good idea in your case.
Properly formulated antifreeze is not corrosive yet you may note new leaks immediately; this a a viscosity difference and in many cases the packing gland can be tightened in the case of leaking valves.
It is a good idea to monitor the PH level after adding antifreeze.

Not to take away from what Begreen said.

 

[TradEddie]

Don't turn off your boiler, but set the room thermostat a little lower so that it only kicks in occasionally, perhaps as the stove is cooling down, let the woodstove do most of the work, and let the boiler run for short periods each day. Every BTU from wood is a BTU saved from the oilman.

TE

 

[dave_376]

I would get a digital programmable thermostat and set it to turn on and off every few hours. 6pm on at 72F 6:05 pm off at 55F.... 12am on at 72F 12:05 am off at 55F.....6am on at 72F 6:05 off a 55F. or something like that.

 

[tigger]

I am in a similar situation. Cape. I am strongly considering just draining my 2 floor system and then not worrying about it. I get plenty of heat from the stove going up stairs.

 

[goawayoilman]

Thanks for all the replies.

The basement is not an issue. The temp down there stays at about 55 at the lowest. The boiler would kick on every once and a while. Also, we have never had a problem with the downstairs zone. My guess is it would be somewhere in the wall as the pipe goes upstairs that the problem is, but I have no I idea where. I don't think I can talk the wife into putting antifreeze in after she was told that is WILL corrode your pipes in about 4 years. I'm not sure if that is true or not, but she is. It's a good idea about the thermostat, and we already have on that can do that. It seems like that is sort of the same principle behind the ThermGuard. Draining it is not really an option as the kids bedrooms are upstairs and the doors are closed after they go to bed. So, they wouldn't be getting any of that heat coming up.

 

[velvetfoot]

So, why not try the ThermGuard?

 

[firefighterjake]

Random thoughts . . .

The majority of my heat comes from my woodstove . . . that said . . . I am not like some folks who equate the sound of their oil boiler kicking on to the sound of fingernails raking across a chaulkboard. I figure I'm still saving a bunch of money by heating with wood and I enjoy the life style . . . but I don't need to be married to the idea that I need to be 100% committed to my woodstove and not burn a single drop of oil.

Normally the thermostats (old style) are set to 60 degrees F in the home . . . if the fire goes out, I'm lazy or if I'm away the oil boiler should kick on and the house will be reasonably warm . . . well warm enough to be livable . . . not all the comfortable in my own opinion.

When we've got an extended sub-zero bout of weather coming up though I often either crank the thermostats up a few more degrees so they kick on sooner and/or will crank the system up a few times during the day to pump out some heat and get the water in the pipes flowing. Yeah, I'm using oil . . . but I figure the cost of burning up a gallon or two of oil is still cheaper than a plumber's bill for broken pipes or the HVAC guy's bill for fixing the broken oil boiler . . . plus it's not like the heat generated from the oil boiler is wasted -- it's still heating the home.

Since 2008 when I started heating with wood mostly I have only had two times when I had frozen pipes -- both domestic water though. Once was my own fault -- an outside faucet that I didn't shut down from the inside. The second time I think was also my own fault -- didn't put enough insulation in the knee wall area the summer after we opened up the knee wall with a couple of vents to allow the area to "breathe". A little bit of insulation might have fixed that issue . . . time will tell.

 

[Fsappo]

I just (before programmables were out or mainstream) just had as part of my regular routine, wake up, turn the thermostat to 75, S, S and S, quick breakfast, get dressed and turn it back down to 68 when I left. Maybe about 45 minutes to an hour.

 

[bridgerman]

The ThermGuard mentioned is exactly designed to solve this problem.

Simply attach ThermGuard to your thermostat and you can program it to circulate water through your system as often as you would like. I live in Montana where it gets very cold and windy. I have 5 zones and ThermGuards on 3. I have the thermostats turned off completely since my wood burner does the job.

I set my ThermGuards to turn on the boiler for 3 minutes every three hours. It doesn't use a perceptible amount of my propane and I can sleep at nights without worrying about freezing pipes.

John

 

[Enzo's Dad]

I agree with Jake... I use my second floor heat to keep the pipes from freezing. I have a cape and the second floor gets to 66 without the heat on. I set the thermostat at 68, I only have to heat the area 2 degrees. Keeps the whole house warmer and I don't have to stress out about a freezing pipe. I only heat the basement,2nd floor and domestic hot water with oil. 125 gallons since October...not bad considering most of the house is at 72 plus

 

[velvetfoot]

Enzo's Dad: I have about the same experience with my HI300 and 2 story 2000 ft2 house, only I'm using a pellet boiler instead of the oil. I'm finding a 6-7 degree difference generally, between the first and second floors.

 

[kennyp2339]

When the temp falls below 15 deg F I cycle my boiler (2) a day, in the morning and then before bed, I manually open my zone vales and just wait until the return pipe get hot, I then turn them off. My woodstove keeps my whole house in the 70's so I don't call for heat from the boiler, I do have (2) runs that go through the unheated ceiling in the garage, so I exercise them when it gets real cold out..we are only talking about 5min of run time morning and night, so oil usage is very minimal.