I didn't know and still don't

[cloister4]

I have an open floor plan with a loft upstairs. 1st floor floor area about 1200 sq. feet. (25' x 40') There is a 2nd floor area above the middle section of the 1st floor space, about 15' x 25' with open air on each side of the 2nd floor loft. The loft overlooks the living room below on one side and the kitchen below on the other. In other words, air can circulate in the first floor and second floor areas like a big circle. There are other rooms in the house downstairs and on each end of the loft but they are all with doors to the large common area and loft. We will have six ceiling fans to downdraft the hot air that will accumulate in the upper ceiling above the loft and kitchen/living room areas. The ceiling above the loft is 20' above the first floor floor level. Ergo, about 21,000 cubic feet of space.
I've read your web site for over an hour and trust your opinions. I read where you throw away the manufacturer's BTU specs and instead go by firebox dimensions. 1st question. How big of a firebox am I looking for. I want the wood stove to be the primary source of heat. I have forced air furnaces only as backup.

PS. I am a plumbing contractor and am a little familiar with construction, vents, and best guesses.

 

[TheRambler]

I am a newbie, but In my researchi have seen it correlate roughly to about 1.3 cuft of firebox space per 1000sqft. This is a rough guess definitely, and varies alot based on climate, insulation etc.

I currently have a 1.7 cuft stove and it is a little marginal for my 2100sqft house. Would probably be about perfect for 1400-1500 though.

 

[cloister4]

I have an open floor plan with a loft upstairs. 1st floor floor area about 1200 sq. feet. (25' x 40') There is a 2nd floor area above the middle section of the 1st floor space, about 15' x 25' with open air on each side of the 2nd floor loft. The loft overlooks the living room below on one side and the kitchen below on the other. In other words, air can circulate in the first floor and second floor areas like a big circle. There are other rooms in the house downstairs and on each end of the loft but they are all with doors to the large common area and loft. We will have six ceiling fans to downdraft the hot air that will accumulate in the upper ceiling above the loft and kitchen/living room areas. The ceiling above the loft is 20' above the first floor floor level. Ergo, about 21,000 cubic feet of space.
I've read your web site for over an hour and trust your opinions. I read where you throw away the manufacturer's BTU specs and instead go by firebox dimensions. 1st question. How big of a firebox am I looking for. I want the wood stove to be the primary source of heat. I have forced air furnaces only as backup.

PS. I am a plumbing contractor and am a little familiar with construction, vents, and best guesses.

The house is not sealed. It will have blown insulation in the walls and blown insulation in the attic areas. Oklahoma winters and lots of windows.

 

[Sodbuster]

Cloister, I have a floor plan that sounds very similar to yours. I have a PE Summit that does a nice job with this space. It has a 3.0 cu ft firebox. I wouldn't go any smaller than that. On the coldest and windiest days, I do need to supplement with the furnace a bit.

 

[cloister4]

Cloister, I have a floor plan that sounds very similar to yours. I have a PE Summit that does a nice job with this space. It has a 3.0 cu ft firebox. I wouldn't go any smaller than that. On the coldest and windiest days, I do need to supplement with the furnace a bit.

I have an open floor plan with a loft upstairs. 1st floor floor area about 1200 sq. feet. (25' x 40') There is a 2nd floor area above the middle section of the 1st floor space, about 15' x 25' with open air on each side of the 2nd floor loft. The loft overlooks the living room below on one side and the kitchen below on the other. In other words, air can circulate in the first floor and second floor areas like a big circle. There are other rooms in the house downstairs and on each end of the loft but they are all with doors to the large common area and loft. We will have six ceiling fans to downdraft the hot air that will accumulate in the upper ceiling above the loft and kitchen/living room areas. The ceiling above the loft is 20' above the first floor floor level. Ergo, about 21,000 cubic feet of space.
I've read your web site for over an hour and trust your opinions. I read where you throw away the manufacturer's BTU specs and instead go by firebox dimensions. 1st question. How big of a firebox am I looking for. I want the wood stove to be the primary source of heat. I have forced air furnaces only as backup.

PS. I am a plumbing contractor and am a little familiar with construction, vents, and best guesses.

Thanks. I'll get at least a 3 cu.ft. box. 2nd question: I tried sorting through the reviews on a couple of web sites and found too many with 5 star and one star ratings on the same stove. One says its a piece of junk and the other couldn't be happier. Opinions on USSC, Quadra-fire, Dutch West, Buck, or Vermont Castings? Our local dealer carries those brands. Are the stoves in Lehman's catalog any better? I'd rather buy a good stove the first time.

 

[Sodbuster]

I'd take a hard look at Northern Tool's website. They carry a lot of stoves, that come with a lot of reviews. Here's my take on reviews though. I look for trends in reviews, in other words a lot of similar complaints about a particular stove. Some people are just idiots, who couldn't make any stove burn well. But when you start to see many common complaints, there may be something to it. I went with my Pacific Energy because it offered the minimum clearances I needed that other stoves couldn't match. At the end of the day, wood stoves aren't rocket science, its a large steel box that gets real hot and heats your home.

 

[BrotherBart]

The house is not sealed. It will have blown insulation in the walls and blown insulation in the attic areas. Oklahoma winters and lots of windows.

With the cold and winds in OK, that nobody here realizes, I would go for the big box. And make it the Quadra-fire if from that dealer. Somewhere in the 4300 or larger territory. Or if you are into a self install you could get an Englander 30-NC, that heats this 2,500 sq. ft. barn, at Sutherland's in Tulsa.

https://sutherlands.com/products/product.php?item=7800964&s_market=true#.VFgsV_ml78Y

Full disclosure. I am a big steel stove junkie and native Texan that knows, that people here don't, that it gets damn cold and windy in OK. Nothing between OK and the North Pole but a barbed wire fence. And it was blown down.

 

[tarzan]

My two best guesses

1. Brother Bart is probably right.

2. In your case, bigger is better. Considering the size of your home, the layout, the windows, wind, potential weather I wouldn't be looking at anything smaller than a 3.0 cf firebox.
Remember, you can always put less wood in a big box for a cool day but you can't put extra wood in a small box for a cold day.

 

[cloister4]

My two best guesses

1. Brother Bart is probably right.

2. In your case, bigger is better. Considering the size of your home, the layout, the windows, wind, potential weather I wouldn't be looking at anything smaller than a 3.0 cf firebox.
Remember, you can always put less wood in a big box for a cool day but you can't put extra wood in a small box for a cold day.

I have an open floor plan with a loft upstairs. 1st floor floor area about 1200 sq. feet. (25' x 40') There is a 2nd floor area above the middle section of the 1st floor space, about 15' x 25' with open air on each side of the 2nd floor loft. The loft overlooks the living room below on one side and the kitchen below on the other. In other words, air can circulate in the first floor and second floor areas like a big circle. There are other rooms in the house downstairs and on each end of the loft but they are all with doors to the large common area and loft. We will have six ceiling fans to downdraft the hot air that will accumulate in the upper ceiling above the loft and kitchen/living room areas. The ceiling above the loft is 20' above the first floor floor level. Ergo, about 21,000 cubic feet of space.
I've read your web site for over an hour and trust your opinions. I read where you throw away the manufacturer's BTU specs and instead go by firebox dimensions. 1st question. How big of a firebox am I looking for. I want the wood stove to be the primary source of heat. I have forced air furnaces only as backup.

PS. I am a plumbing contractor and am a little familiar with construction, vents, and best guesses.

 

[Hogwildz]

Go as large as you can get in your situation.
Of the ones you listed, I would personally only consider the Buck or the Quad. There are plenty of other large, good stoves out there.
Did you check the reviews here on site?

 

[branchburner]

Buck makes a 4 cu ft catalytic model... the cat should let you get longer burn times at a lower heat output, if desired. (Bear in mind it calls for 8" pipe, rather than 6" like most.)

 

[cloister4]

Given I need a 3 cu. ft. box, I've narrowed it down to four models. Efel Stanford 140 (2.9 cu.ft.)$2900, Vogelzang Ponderosa 3.3 cu.ft. $1100, Napoleon 1900 3 cu.ft. $2000 and the Quadra-fire 5700 3 cu.ft. no price yet.

Buck makes a 4 cu ft catalytic model... the cat should let you get longer burn times at a lower heat output, if desired. (Bear in mind it calls for 8" pipe, rather than 6" like most.)

shouldn't I stay away from cats as a newbie to wood stoves?

 

[branchburner]

... it gets damn cold and windy in OK. Nothing between OK and the North Pole but a barbed wire fence. And it was blown down.

You've had a lot of good lines over the years... that's gotta be one of my faves.

 

[branchburner]

shouldn't I stay away from cats as a newbie to wood stoves?

Not to my mind... not now that you've found hearth.com.

I'd keep the Englander NC-30 on your short list, just for value. It seems to be the #1 bang-for-the-buck model around here.

 

[cloister4]

Not to my mind... not now that you've found hearth.com.

I'd keep the Englander NC-30 on your short list, just for value. It seems to be the #1 bang-for-the-buck model around here.

I like the Blaze kings but they are all cats and the big models are 8" flues. The Kumas aren't large enough but I really like the US made. I threw out various others through lack of information,too small, etc. When I went to the Englander web site the dealers in Oklahoma are all hardware stores!! But I read a lot of reviews and they were 90% very positive. The bad reviews were by people who couldn't spell or pronounce "diction" if they tried. So now its between the Quadra-Fire 5700, Englander NC-30, Osburn 2400, and the Napoleon 1900. Alright, 2300 sq.ft., with 20' cathedral ceiling all above, stove is 15' from outside wall, Oklahoma winters, lots of windows at each end, etc. Someone pull a trigger or vote. My head cannot make up its mind. Spending $2000 (Napoleon) to $900 (Englander) is not pivotal to the decision.

 

[tarzan]

Cats are fine.

I did notice you listed the pondorosa. If memory serves me correct that stove has some serious clearance requirements to concider

 

[Huntindog1]

The ponderosa , I am not sure on the clearance but that stove is a newer design and has some good efficiency numbers. There were a couple guys on here that had a learning curve to go thru and over fired their ponderosa's. The stove has an extra control called the high burn control and maybe the reason it tested for better efficiency than some older designs. One thing I noticed is this stove has alot more burn tubes in it to mix the smoke and secondary air. 82% Efficient and 3.2 grams emissions.

 

[tarzan]

Ok. I see you've narrowed it down some more.

Do you have a hearth already? Clearance to combustibles requirements may be a factor that can help you narrow it down some more.

 

[Huntindog1]

Here is a the manual to look up clearances:

 

[cloister4]

Ok. I see you've narrowed it down some more.

Do you have a hearth already? Clearance to combustibles requirements may be a factor that can help you narrow it down some more.

Clearance is not a factor. It sits in the open. I can set it away from a back wall 10" - 12".

OK, now I've slept on it. Finalists:

Englander 30-NC: 3.5 cu.ft., 20" wood, 1800 to 2200 sq.ft., 1/4" steel top, EPA certified, front loading, steel, made in USA $ 900
Quadra-Fire 5700: 3.0 cu.ft., 24" wood, 1400 to 3700 sq.ft., 1/4" steel top EPA certified, front loading steel, made in USA $2800

I've talked to Quadra-Fire and Englander techs. Both are good and answered my questions.

I've spent way too much time (I don't have) to study the options. I've looked at more stoves, more manufacturers, more reviews, and numerous forum's threads. Finally going with the Englander 30-NC.

I cannot express how helpful this site was in finally pulling the trigger after weighing all the options. Thank you for your time and expertise

Now I get to study chimney installs.

 

[tarzan]

Congrats! I think you get a shirt for choosing the Englander!

How's your wood? It will need to be below 20%mc.

Are you building a hearth?

 

[Grisu]

Clearance is not a factor. It sits in the open. I can set it away from a back wall 10" - 12".

OK, now I've slept on it. Finalists:

Englander 30-NC: 3.5 cu.ft., 20" wood, 1800 to 2200 sq.ft., 1/4" steel top, EPA certified, front loading, steel, made in USA $ 900
Quadra-Fire 5700: 3.0 cu.ft., 24" wood, 1400 to 3700 sq.ft., 1/4" steel top EPA certified, front loading steel, made in USA $2800

I've talked to Quadra-Fire and Englander techs. Both are good and answered my questions.

I've spent way too much time (I don't have) to study the options. I've looked at more stoves, more manufacturers, more reviews, and numerous forum's threads. Finally going with the Englander 30-NC.

I cannot express how helpful this site was in finally pulling the trigger after weighing all the options. Thank you for your time and expertise

Now I get to study chimney installs.

The one important difference between the two stoves is that the 30NC needs a hearth with a r-value of 1.5. Do you already have that or do you need to build it? Here is a great list of common hearth materials and their r-values: https://chimneysweeponline.com/horvalue.htm

 

[cloister4]

The one important difference between the two stoves is that the 30NC needs a hearth with a r-value of 1.5. Do you already have that or do you need to build it? Here is a great list of common hearth materials and their r-values: https://chimneysweeponline.com/horvalue.htm

I'm researching that now. ceramic spacers, different materials of r-values, etc. I intend to have a very large area hearth protection with at least a 1.5 value. Will also raise the stove above the hearth a bit more than just the legs. I've been reading the forums and have downloaded the manual for the 30NC even though I haven't bought it yet. I learning about chimneys now too. Any difference between Selkirk and Metal-Fab? I wouldn't think so but I always appreciate advice.

Thanks

 

[cloister4]

Congrats! I think you get a shirt for choosing the Englander!

How's your wood? It will need to be below 20%mc.

Are you building a hearth?

Seasoned three years. Am about to order more. One thing I have learned from the forum is the absolute value of dry wood!!