#$%@#^@, I don't think the insert will fit!
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Why not give the installers a heads-up? Tell them the situation, send them photos, whatever, so that they can try to solve the problem for you. They may need to bring parts they otherwise may not have with them.
No he did measure, but I guess didn't look up. I am trying to get a hold of them but since it's saturday, they are closed. So I left a message.
I am going to hold off on ordering the flush mount kit until they come out and confirm that it won't fit. I am kinda like why should I tell them, since this is their job and if they can't measure correctly. What if I had been joe blow who knew nothing? OK OK that's just a very little bit less than I know now!
I am going to hold off on ordering the flush mount kit until they come out and confirm that it won't fit. I am kinda like why should I tell them, since this is their job and if they can't measure correctly. What if I had been joe blow who knew nothing? OK OK that's just a very little bit less than I know now!
Well if that is a prefab unit you have there with a metal flue (which it looks like). They should have made an attempt to inspect the entire install, including the attic if possible.
Also if the prefab unit was made before 1998 the liner should most definitely be insulated, in 1998 UL 127 had some changes which made prefab fireplaces safer.
To me it looks like an old Preway due to the 4 bricks in the back, but I have never seen one quite like that with the clean finish.
Also if the prefab unit was made before 1998 the liner should most definitely be insulated, in 1998 UL 127 had some changes which made prefab fireplaces safer.
To me it looks like an old Preway due to the 4 bricks in the back, but I have never seen one quite like that with the clean finish.
It is an old majestic L36 something from the early 70's. Why does it need to be insulated? Two different local installers said no... The flue is in a boxed out section on the side of the house and isn't visible without pulling either siding or drywall. What would he have been looking for? When I re-drywalled I looked up and everything looked fine from my perspective 
Looking for clearances to be met would be the main purpose of the inspection.
It needs to be insulated because that is the only way your flue system will be safe in the event of a raging chimney fire. Otherwise the heat can transfer through too easy and could ignite nearby combustibles even if they meet the 2" clearance to the outer pipe. If it was installed in the 70's there is a high chance something was done wrong. I found one 2 weeks ago where they used a 2x4 for an elbow support.
Also make sure when they terminate at the top they do not block the cooling air chamber on the outer wall of the old pipe. The best way to do this is to keep the old cap there and either run the liner through the top of it, or suspend it in the flue. This is one of the main causes for house fires in that type of install.
Basically... putting an insert into a prefab is very dangerous, and you must do it 100% correctly (as with any fireplace installation).
It needs to be insulated because that is the only way your flue system will be safe in the event of a raging chimney fire. Otherwise the heat can transfer through too easy and could ignite nearby combustibles even if they meet the 2" clearance to the outer pipe. If it was installed in the 70's there is a high chance something was done wrong. I found one 2 weeks ago where they used a 2x4 for an elbow support.
Also make sure when they terminate at the top they do not block the cooling air chamber on the outer wall of the old pipe. The best way to do this is to keep the old cap there and either run the liner through the top of it, or suspend it in the flue. This is one of the main causes for house fires in that type of install.
Basically... putting an insert into a prefab is very dangerous, and you must do it 100% correctly (as with any fireplace installation).
I had a similar problem and the installers just removed the damper, cut out a chunk of steel and
installed an adapter sleeve to my SS liner.
installed an adapter sleeve to my SS liner.
Deron said:
If they did and it was a ZC fireplace like the OP has then get a good fire insurance policy and a good lawyer.
And a reservation at the Marriot.
You don't have a clue what we are talking about here.
Just an Update
!!
So the stove got delivered and the installer took one look at it and said nope, that stove isn't rated for a Zero Clearance metal firebox. So after talking with the company that sold me the stove, they tried to get the installer to rig it and get it in by just sitting the liner on the top of the stove. WTF
Both the installer and I said NO WAY! and I was bringing it back! They wanted to charge me a 20% restocking fee because he said "I told you that that stove wasn't rated for your firebox" My response was BS! then why did you sell me a stove that wasn't rated for it? He had no answer, but I left with 100% of my money.
Now I am looking at the Buck Stove 21...... It's smaller but might be better suited for me in the long run.
Thanks to everyone that responded.
Scott
!!So the stove got delivered and the installer took one look at it and said nope, that stove isn't rated for a Zero Clearance metal firebox. So after talking with the company that sold me the stove, they tried to get the installer to rig it and get it in by just sitting the liner on the top of the stove. WTF
Both the installer and I said NO WAY! and I was bringing it back! They wanted to charge me a 20% restocking fee because he said "I told you that that stove wasn't rated for your firebox" My response was BS! then why did you sell me a stove that wasn't rated for it? He had no answer, but I left with 100% of my money.
Now I am looking at the Buck Stove 21...... It's smaller but might be better suited for me in the long run.
Thanks to everyone that responded.
Scott
sksmass said:
I think that was a typo,,,,, I think the "o" in roping should be an "a". Check one out someday, they're a blast!
First, let me tell you I am not recommending that you install an insert in this fireplace, because I have learned a lot since 1982. However, I will relate my experience.
I have the exact same ZC fireplace, installed in 1974. In 1982 I installed a UL approved (for masonry fireplaces only) Buck Stove in this fireplace. I believed at the time that the only issue with the requirement for "masonry fireplace only" was the fact that most ZC fireplaces at the time were installed with wood framing around the unit and in contact with the metal stand offs of the unit. In my 30 + yrs fire service career, I have seen evidence of this as a problem at several fires. Since I installed mine in a dry-walled corner, then bricked up the face with no wood framing around the unit anywhere, I thought I would be OK with installing it in this ZC fireplace. Your unit appears to be bricked up the front like mine. Of course I can't tell from the pictures whether or not there is any wood framing though.
Fast forward to the present. I have burned the Buck 26000 Insert as described ever since 1982, most of the time 24/7. When I run the insert fairly hot, the outside of the chimney, in the attic, barely gets warm to the touch, cooler than my Class A chimney connected to my other EPA stove (see signature) being burned in a similar fashion. I have never had a flue fire, which of course is the real test, but my brother, with a home made stove connected to the exact same chimney, did have one of the worst flue fires I have ever seen. I responded to the fire call for that flue fire. He had installed the flue with the required 2 inches to combustibles and although it got to hot to leave your hand on it, it did not ignite anything and the flue fire was without damage to the house. I still burn my Buck as described because I am confident from pure experience that my set up is safe. It was originally and for most of its life installed as a slammer. I only recently connected it directly to a S/S 7" liner in the existing flue.
Again, there have been a lot of changes, improvements and new technology since 1982 and I would recommend taking advantage of them. Just my personal experience. Your set up may be different.
Steve
I have the exact same ZC fireplace, installed in 1974. In 1982 I installed a UL approved (for masonry fireplaces only) Buck Stove in this fireplace. I believed at the time that the only issue with the requirement for "masonry fireplace only" was the fact that most ZC fireplaces at the time were installed with wood framing around the unit and in contact with the metal stand offs of the unit. In my 30 + yrs fire service career, I have seen evidence of this as a problem at several fires. Since I installed mine in a dry-walled corner, then bricked up the face with no wood framing around the unit anywhere, I thought I would be OK with installing it in this ZC fireplace. Your unit appears to be bricked up the front like mine. Of course I can't tell from the pictures whether or not there is any wood framing though.
Fast forward to the present. I have burned the Buck 26000 Insert as described ever since 1982, most of the time 24/7. When I run the insert fairly hot, the outside of the chimney, in the attic, barely gets warm to the touch, cooler than my Class A chimney connected to my other EPA stove (see signature) being burned in a similar fashion. I have never had a flue fire, which of course is the real test, but my brother, with a home made stove connected to the exact same chimney, did have one of the worst flue fires I have ever seen. I responded to the fire call for that flue fire. He had installed the flue with the required 2 inches to combustibles and although it got to hot to leave your hand on it, it did not ignite anything and the flue fire was without damage to the house. I still burn my Buck as described because I am confident from pure experience that my set up is safe. It was originally and for most of its life installed as a slammer. I only recently connected it directly to a S/S 7" liner in the existing flue.
Again, there have been a lot of changes, improvements and new technology since 1982 and I would recommend taking advantage of them. Just my personal experience. Your set up may be different.
Steve
Thanks BG. I just looked at the last post. I was just struck by the pictures. First time on here I have seen the exact same ZC that I have, so I thought I would post my experience.BeGreen said:
No worry, your info will be helpful to the next fellow that runs into this problem. Hopefully Scooter will be back in fall and will update us on his decision.
I hope he does come back, the pictures look familiar to me as my fireplace is also built that way. I also wonder why it is hard to drop a six inch insulated liner down an 8 inch pipe, mine came down by gravity until I got to the point where I had to bend it to clear a fireback that I left in place. He may have to do the installation himself, as to an installer a zero clearance fireplace made out of heavy stainless steel looks just like one of those sleazy excuses installed in apartments two decades ago. I got the same nonsense when I came onto the forum last August, but I have a hearth mounted installation, installed to code in every way, inspected and passed without difficulty.
jtp10181 said:
Trying to visualize this, and can't . . . quite . . .
Is this done pre- or post-installation?
How many installers are required, and how harsh must they be to be effective?
Must you use a professional installer, or can a competent homeowner carry it out?
How critical a step is this, and if so, is it also necessary with stoves?
Can this be done in a retrofit by opening the door and hurling epithets upward?
Is this a one-time procedure, or part of seasonal maintenance?
Just when I thought I was starting to get the hang of this . . .
Well, I am only certain of the answer to one of your questions, that being the answer to hurling epithets, or worse, upwards. When this is done with vehemence, it serves as a lubricant for anything that is stuck, ancient soot deposits come to mind, and it is an effective use of your time.
BeGreen said:
Sorry I didn't post an update on this topic. I ended up getting the Buck 21, with an insulated liner. I have had one break in fire in it so far. :-( But I have gotten alot 3+ cords of wood split and stacked. Now I am just waiting for winter to burn some of the stuff I already had seasoned.
Scott
Awesome, another Buck to the rescue. Thanks for the update scooter. Hope you can post some pictures of it once burning season comes around.
tfdchief said:
TDCHIEF, thanks for the thoughts... I have a thermometer wired up in between the wood and the ZC, just to make sure it doesn't get too hot. I also used some high temp stove caulk to glue some of the insulation that the installers left me, in between the stove top and the ZC, just as an added bonus...
Scott
Great, glad I could help. I would love to see pictures and hear more this winter.Scoooter said:
tfdchief said:
Right now I am working on the kitchen... When I get the stove area finished I will post pics. I am hoping to get to it by October.
Scott
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