I should have done this a long time ago

[lowroadacres]

Fellow Hearth Members.

Following a fairly challenging set back in my pursuit of being able to fully heat our home with wood I realize that one thing I have never done is to put a photo of our fireplace up on hearth.com to ask for help. (See image)

This week I met with someone much experienced than I am (a certified chimney builder/expert) who had a look at our existing wood heat appliance ( a drolet non EPA stove in our basement with double wall pipe connected to duravent liner into a 10 inch tile line flue). He also looked at our fireplace. NOTE: another installer approved and signed off on the basement installation. We are working with a new installer due to being connected via a financing program to the new installer.

In both cases he had grave concerns about our installations and essentially has recommended very strongly against our intentions of upgrading the stove in the basement due to his concerns over clearances.

Now what I would like to get feedback on is our fireplace.

Does anyone have experience with changing a fireplace such as ours to an insert installation?

The flue is a ten inch square tile lined flue running up from a corrugated firebox fireplace built right into a masonry chimney.

There are air inlets on either side of the fireplace that move air up and through tubes that pass through the upper portion of the firebox just above the damper.

The chimney builder essentially said that he wouldn't recommend any use of the fireplace at all due to clearance concerns. His strong suggestion was that any effort to simply line the masonry chimney would not meet code.

The equally strong suggestion was made that we should abandon the existing masonry chimney and run a new stainless chimney elsewhere in the home other than trying to do anything with our existing wood stove or with the fireplace.

Any and all advice or suggestions would be appreciated as we don't want to admit defeat.

One idea I want to push with our installer would be to go with an insert and to run an actually chimney, not just a liner, down the 10 inch flue to an insert in the the fireplace.

Looking forward to the ideas and suggestions.

 

[Oregon aloha]

Are there combustibles or structure issues with your masonry chimney? Why can't the chimney be lined? The codes here don't even allow an non EPA stove and I haven't heard of anyone not able to line there masonry or stone chimney.
The clearances looked pretty good on your fire place. You may need to add non combustible flooring or extend the heart.
Look at a few inserts or stoves that will fit and use there install to combustibles as a guide.

 

[begreen]

This looks like a good setup for a free standing stove in the fireplace. What is the height and width of the arch? What is the height 12" to the left or right of centerline?

 

[lowroadacres]

Arch is 32 inches wide and 26.5 inches high.

The issue, as described to me, is the fact that the masonry chimney is built right up to the cedar log wall. I may not have mentioned that we are dealing with a cedar log home.

To clarify as well, and I will try to come up with an illustration to show the issues with the basement install, have to do with slightly different clearance issues.

The other issue mentioned by the installer is that due to the way the air tubes at the top of the fireplace are constructed they are considered a part of the the firebox itself and those tubes come up very close to the underside of the mantel above the fireplace. If we were to run a liner down the existing flue the potential issue is that the proximity to combustibles might be considered an issue.

This is why I am considering the idea of running an actual stainless chimney direction an insert.

On the matter of extending the non combustible floor? Absolutely.

I have been hesitant to consider installing anything other than an an insert into the fireplace due to our hope of not losing any square feet of living space and the hope that we are able to keep as much "fireplace" esthetic as is possible.

 

[lowroadacres]

Missed one measurement..... Height of arch 12 inches to either side of centre line is 22 inches.

 

[bholler]

Well I cant see the specifics but if you install an insulated liner with a good insulated block off plate the only clearances you then need to worry about are around the firebox it self and the floor protection in front of it. Check the installation instructions for your insert to see how much masonry you need between the insert and combustibles as long as they are good and you insulate the liner that should take care of most of the problems but I am not there to see it in person so it is hard to tell for sure.

 

[lowroadacres]

The suggestion by the person who had a look at the fireplace was that due to the configuration of the firebox with the tubes when an insert would be installed there would be a significant gap between the flue connector on the insert up to where the actual chimney to be lined beguns.

if a person ran a liner there would be a portion of the liner not actually in a chimney but rather in an area that would have to be "cut" in the upper firebox area.

 

[bholler]

yes you would need to cut those tubes out and seal them up we usually cut them flush on the ends and then cover those holes with stainless plates riveted in place and sealed with furnace cement.

 

[begreen]

With that low arch, unless you are willing to tap into the flue above the smokebox, a small insert appears to be all that would fit. The arch is too low for most rear exit stoves.

 

[Oregon aloha]

There are stoves approved for insert/alcove/freestanding. One could install the stove like an insert without the surround using a block off plate and preserve the look of the fireplace.
My Kuma stove is in an arched fireplace. The stove stands 20" tall without the legs and is 25" wide. It would fit nicely in your firebox. The stove heats my 1450 sq. ft. home without a fan almost to well.

 

[begreen]

Might work, can you post a picture of your setup? The avatar is pretty tiny and more of a handsome dog pic.

 

[Oregon aloha]

OK here is the install photo . The firebox opening is 37" tall at the center, 30" at the shoulders and 29" wide.
and first fire

 

[begreen]

Sweet looking install. His arch is 11" lower and tapers off more quickly on the sides. I suspect this wouldn't work for him.

 

[Oregon aloha]

Kuma also has a smaller size stove called the Aspen It's only 18" tall and 23" wide. It would fit much better in the space then the Ashwood and you could put the stove up on shorted legs like I did. I'm sure there has to be other makers of this type of stove. I just like your firebox and think you should keep it and a multipurpose stove I feel is the best option. The stove projects the heat out the front of the stove like other inserts, but has clean lines so it looks good without a surround. Also the thermal mass of the brick is a great asset if your heating 24/7.