I want to hear from gasifier owners in Canada especially Ontario re: insurance

[Medman]

Hi there and thanks for all the excellent info!

I live in Northern Ontario and I am considering a gasifier to heat my home. I currently heat with a woodstove, but I am looking to install a water to air HX in my electric forced air furnace. I have done all of the heat load calcs and I have visited my nearest dealer, which happens to be Dave at Cosy Heat. However, I still have a few questions:

For those of you using Orlan EKO boilers, how did you handle the insurance company? Which companies will insure your house when this unit in Ontario when installed in its own shed - not inside a house or garage? My current company, Scottish and York Underwriters, will not insure any wood fired hydronic heat application.

Can I use the 6 inch ID chimney pipe(1inch wall) recommended by Dave for the Orlan, or do I need to go to 2 inch wall pipe like that used with my Pacific Energy woodstove - is 2 inch wall pipe a code requirement?

Please provide some assistance!

 

[pybyr]

I'm not an EKO owner, nor am I in Ontario, but thought I would jump in because I am going to be doing something pretty similar with a water to air HX above my oil furnace--

be sure you can get "enough coil" into your existing ducts above the furnace to move the right number of BTUs, especially if you are contemplating a heat storage unit along with your EKO (and storage really makes these gasifiers "sing")(whether you add the storage now or later) in which case you will want to be sure to make sure that the coil can transfer effective amounts of heat to the air down to the lowest feasible temperature as the heat is gradually extracted from the storage)

 

[Medman]

Thanks for the input. I will be using a 20 x 20 hx in the air ducts with a new variable speed dc blower to maximize heat transfer. Because of my configuration I want to have air circulating in the ducts on low speed at all times, ramping up as the thermostat calls for heat. I have been assured that the 20 x 20 is plenty of coil for my application; however I was thinking of going larger and placing the coil on an angle to increase heat transfer.

 

[Medman]

I have everything lined up for this install but insurance - anyone have any info?

 

[Northwoodsman]

I have everything lined up for this install but insurance - anyone have any info?

I live in northern Michigan and actually met with my insurance agent yesterday regarding the planned installation of an EKO40 system with pressurized storage.

I have been buring wood in my terrific Pacific Energy wood burner for many years and thus pay the annual $150.00 surcharge for burning wood.

My agent said that since I am already burning wood and paying the $150.00 I can add the EKO system with no problems or additional charges.

I am building a room on the rear of my garage for this boiler system and since it will not be "in the house" he said there is nothing to worry about (the only thing he mentioned is that it needs to be at least 18" above the floor level).

I will email him photos after I have installed it and he may come out to make sure I have installed it per the owners manual.

Hope this helps !

 

[Medman]

Thanks for the info. I live close - just outside the Sault. I also have been burning with a Pacific Energy stove for many years. I can't understand why this is such a problem when common sense tells me that it is safer for all involved to have the wood fire out in its own building rather than in the house. I also pay the surcharge, and if I wanted to convert my masonry fireplace to add an airtight insert there would be no questions asked. But I cannot install the Orlan or even a Tarm in any configuration with any company I have spoken with so far. I have had a difficult time even explaining to most of these people what a wood fired hydronic heating system is. Very frustrating, to say the least.

 

[Northwoodsman]

Thanks for the info. I live close - just outside the Sault. I also have been burning with a Pacific Energy stove for many years. I can't understand why this is such a problem when common sense tells me that it is safer for all involved to have the wood fire out in its own building rather than in the house. I also pay the surcharge, and if I wanted to convert my masonry fireplace to add an airtight insert there would be no questions asked. But I cannot install the Orlan or even a Tarm in any configuration with any company I have spoken with so far. I have had a difficult time even explaining to most of these people what a wood fired hydronic heating system is. Very frustrating, to say the least.

It seems like you are dealing with some uneducated personnel. I would try to sit down with them and review the EKO owners manual with someone who has some basic knowledge of mechanical boiler systems.

Keep trying different people until you get one who understands and has some common sense.

Good Luck !

 

[vpicard]

I live in Northern Ontario and have just purchased a unit with water storage -- I had originally wanted to go with the EKO but our home insurer would not provide us with coverage since the unit was not CAS approved -- so we purchased the TARM -- this unit has a CAS approval # and our insurer had no issues with it at all -- hope this helps

 

[Medman]

Can you tell me who your insurance company is?

 

[vpicard]

the Cooperators

 

[Medman]

I wanted to update this thread:

If you live in Northern Ontario, ask your broker about coverage through Algoma Mutual underwriters based in Thessalon. They provided me with coverage at a great rate and had no conditions on the install of my EKO ans long as it was not in the dwelling and was more than 30 feet from the dwelling.
In Southern and Eastern Ontario, below Parry Sound, check out Farmers Mutual Insurance underwriters. I spoke with them and they have a person on staff who is very knowledgeable about wood hydronic heating. They will almost always come and view your project before they refuse coverage. Farmers has brokers all over the place, but their head office is in Lindsay.

Coverage is available for your gasifier - it just takes a little digging.

Keep your stick on the ice!

 

[sfriedri]

I wanted to update this thread:

If you live in Northern Ontario, ask your broker about coverage through Algoma Mutual underwriters based in Thessalon. They provided me with coverage at a great rate and had no conditions on the install of my EKO ans long as it was not in the dwelling and was more than 30 feet from the dwelling.
In Southern and Eastern Ontario, below Parry Sound, check out Farmers Mutual Insurance underwriters. I spoke with them and they have a person on staff who is very knowledgeable about wood hydronic heating. They will almost always come and view your project before they refuse coverage. Farmers has brokers all over the place, but their head office is in Lindsay.

Coverage is available for your gasifier - it just takes a little digging.

Keep your stick on the ice!

I live in Southwestern Ontario near Chatham and spoke to both the local building inspector and my local insurance agent before going ahead with an EKO, which I am installing now. I asked the building inspector about putting wood burning appliances in my attached large garage, and he did not have any problem with this, provided I maintained the proper clearances from combustibles. The garage previously had a gas furnace which I removed. I store all my flammable liquids in a separate building. Anybody in Southwestern Ontario have a different response from a building inspector regarding installing a wood burning appliance in a garage?

My insurance agent has dealt with my family for over 40 years, and he knows us well. We already had a surcharge on our house insurance covering the PE wood stove in the house, and he did not have any problems with a boiler in the garage. The company is West Elgin Mutual Insurance.

 

[Medman]

Building Inspector was not an issue for me as I am in a rural township. I simply have to follow building code and manufacturer's installation instructions. My insurance company at the time would not insure any wood burning appliance in a building that was not occupied. Other companies were willing to insure an OWB but not a gasifier installed in a separate outbuilding. Algoma Mutual, like most other rural and farm based mutual companies, was understanding and knowledgeable about the technology. They had no problem with the install in my garage workshop, as long as flammable liquids/volatile chemicals would not be used or stored within the same area.
Like you, I already pay the surcharge for the PE stove in the house, so there was no extra cost.

My EKO is in at Cozy Heat and I plan to pick it up this weekend. Now for the fun part!