Ideal Steel Hybrid help!

[24vcummns98]

Hey guys I have a question for you. Hoping I don't have a problem.

Last week I was doing my bi weekly stove inspection. I pulled the cat out of the stove to inspect and clean. I noticed the gasket for the cat was damaged. No big deal. I called up Woodstock and they very graciously hooked me up free with some rope gasket and cement. I then started having a problem when closing the cat. When i dropped the handle it the plate was rubbing stove top. I didnt think much of it as i figured i may have things poaitioned a little off. I let the stove go out repositioned and things got better. Still did it a time or two more but then stopped. This leads me to tonight. Luckily it was warm and will be warm for the next few days/week so no stove usage. I figured what the hell I'll go ahead and fix that gasket. I noticed the metal plate the cat goes into is warped. Is this an issue? It's slightly bent up. I have attached a photo of the plate. Can I fix it? Could I heat the plate with my torch and knock it flat? Is this a serious problem?

Thanks for your help!

 

[Stump shot]

It sounds like it is common with this stove. Some people will try and hammer it back into shape. Does it have a piece of stainless steel welded on it? If not Woodstock has an update one.

 

[24vcummns98]

Here is the cat in without the gasket.

 

[JA600L]

It sounds like it is common with this stove. Some people will try and hammer it back into shape. Does it have a piece of stainless steel welded on it? If not Woodstock has an update one.

This is not the common issue you are referring to. The stove was run too hot with the bypass open. You can pull the sled out, straighten it, and carry on.

 

[24vcummns98]

Damn I'm so attentive to the stove when running. I have never had it above 650 with the cat open. I run a thermometer at the base of the stove pipe. I guess anything is possible though.

Now to figure out how to pull that thing our.

 

[JA600L]

Damn I'm so attentive to the stove when running. I have never had it above 650 with the cat open. I run a thermometer at the base of the stove pipe. I guess anything is possible though.

Now to figure out how to pull that thing our.

It comes right out. No biggie. Just open the lid, remove the radiator and cat, then pull the sled out.

 

[Woody Stover]

Damn I'm so attentive to the stove when running. I have never had it above 650 with the cat open. I run a thermometer at the base of the stove pipe.

The stove was run too hot with the bypass open.

I don't know much about that stove, but I don't think running any stove up near peak stove top temp, with the bypass open, could be good. My manual says to close the bypass when the stove top reaches 250, but I usually close it around 170. When does your manual tell you to close the bypass? Do you have a roaring fire in the box with the bypass open? What peak flue temps do you see when running with the bypass open? I never run with the air open for any length of time, or my pipe would be glowing red. As soon as some wood starts catching, I'm cutting the air to half or less. I want to see a 'lively' fire at most, with the flames not moving real fast, never a roaring, blow-torch type fire.

 

[24vcummns98]

On average I let it run to 350 and close the bypass. I have found i get better burns and Temps letting it get a little warmer then 250 then closing the bypass. I agree that leaving the bypass open with a roaring fire is not good. Definitely a mistake I have made though. I could probably count on one hand the number of times I've allowed it to go about 550 with the bypass open. I will definitely be more attentive to it not allowing it to ever get about 400 with the bypass open now to help avoid this issue.

Does anyone know the size of this rope gasket? When I pulled the sled out I noticed a little damage to the gasket. Not the big rope gasket that seals the top door but the small one underneath the sled. Is it a tadpole or 0.187 rope?

Thanks for your help guys. As a young wood burner I still have many things to learn. I appreciate this site very much and the willingness to help.

 

[24vcummns98]

I've also never had a glowing pipe. Of course now I'm hoping all is well and I haven't damaged anything else

 

[Babaganoosh]

Letting it get to 350 means the temperature actually inside the stove is over 700. Yes you are going to get a better cat light off but as you see you are going to warp other pieces in the process.

I'd order another sled if I was you. Unless you have the resources to get it back flat and straight. I'd also stop running the stove with the bypass open like you have been. You may want to order a cat probe thermometer so you can more accurately check out the temperatures. I engage my cat around 550 to 600.

 

[JA600L]

Call Woodstock and ask! They are open Saturdays

 

[Woody Stover]

As a young wood burner I still have many things to learn.

You had a TN-19, right? That must have helped get you up to speed. You no doubt discovered that on a start-up, you have to keep cutting the air as more wood catches, to keep the stove burning at a moderate rate. And you said you read the manual, so that's good. The Woodstock manuals are also full of good info. I would get as many meters on the stove as possible, not just the stove top meter. That way you can experiment and see what temps you need, and where, to be able to close the bypass and get a quick light-off with a glowing cat. I have stove-top, flue meter and cat probe on mine. But maybe you just like to run in secondary-only mode a lot, and leave the bypass open?
I may get an Absolute at some point, but I imagine I'll run it the same as I run my straight-cat Keystone....get it up to temp and close the bypass as soon as possible, every time. If I want some flame, I just leave the air open a bit further.
All the manuals are here; Gasket sizes are in the "parts lists and diagrams" section: (broken link removed to http://woodstove.com/support)

 

[24vcummns98]

I did have a TN-19. Last year I upgraded to the Hybrid. This is my second year with it. I should say 1.5 years as I got it mid season.

I definitely need to add some additonal monotoring capabilities.

 

[Woody Stover]

Letting it get to 350 means the temperature actually inside the stove is over 700. Yes you are going to get a better cat light off but as you see you are going to warp other pieces in the process. I'd order another sled if I was you.

I see up to 500 on my flue meter, which is lying on the tee snout about 6" behind the rear-vent flue exit, so that means 1000 inside the stove. Granted, that meter isn't reading the center of the stream, like a flue probe in a vertical pipe would at 12" above the flue collar, and that may be a high reading. Nevertheless, non-cats routinely run at those temps without internal damage. Also, the stove top meter is lagging behind what is actually happening in the box, so you could get to very high internal temps before the meter has a chance to register, especially with a roaring fire in the box.
Yeah, I would price the entire sled assembly, and the individual sled parts, then make a decision as to what parts are needed to make it right.

 

[Woody Stover]

I use only OEM gaskets, not aftermarket bulk stuff you might find at a farm store or stove shop. That way I know I'm getting the correct densities and composition that the stove maker wants for that particular application.

 

[24vcummns98]

I talked to Woodstock this morning they weren't too concerned. He told me to try and fix it first before jumping into buying another sled. I heated the sled up with my torch today and banged it out. I feel pretry good about it. I wired wheeled the old gasket off and installed a new one (gasket was oem). I've got the other gasket on thr way from them.

You guys have been awesome! At 28 there isn't many guys my age doing wood burning so it's nice to be able to come to this site and chat and learn.

I'm going to soak the Allen bolts in some blaster for 24 hours to make removal of the second gasket easier ( reccomended by them) hopefully I'll have the gasket by Wednesday and back burning the same day.

 

[Woody Stover]

You guys have been awesome! At 28 there isn't many guys my age doing wood burning so it's nice to be able to come to this site and chat and learn.

Nationwide there's only about 2% of the population heating with wood as the primary source. But yeah, feel free to pick the brains of us old guys. Be quick about it though; We're forgetting more every day.

 

[Coyoterun]

Hey guys, mind if I get some clarification here? There are lot of different numbers tossed around, and I know it all depends on where you take them.

In my setup, I've got an Auber probe mounted in the flue 18" above the stovetop that I get my numbers from. I try to engage the cat when that shows between 500 and 600 dF. Sometimes I have been enjoying the fire and it'll get up a little above 600, maybe 620-630, before I get the cat closed.

Do I need to be making sure it's closed by 550 or so instead, not letting it get up to 600? And what's the minimum temp to close it? It seems that if I close it before 500dF that it drops way down around 400 and doesn't come back.

TIA, I'm trying to learn now before I repeat the OP's experience.

 

[Woody Stover]

I try to engage the cat when that shows between 500 and 600 dF. Sometimes I have been enjoying the fire and it'll get up a little above 600, maybe 620-630, before I get the cat closed. Do I need to be making sure it's closed by 550 or so instead, not letting it get up to 600? And what's the minimum temp to close it? It seems that if I close it before 500dF that it drops way down around 400 and doesn't come back.

Do you also have a stove-top meter and a cat probe? If so, what do they read when you get to your target on the flue meter? What I do is to take the flue meter to my target, then cut the air to level off there and let the stove top heat up a bit more. If not, like you, I might get no light-off, or slower light-off than I'd like. Different stove than you have, and different flue meter position, so I can't give any numbers that would apply.

 

[Babaganoosh]

I generally close mine at around 600 on the cat probe. If the wood if fully involved in flames at 550 I'll engage it then. I go by my eyes and by the probe temp.

How old is your stove and cat?

 

[Sconnie Burner]

I generally close mine at around 600 on the cat probe. If the wood if fully involved in flames at 550 I'll engage it then. I go by my eyes and by the probe temp.

How old is your stove and cat?

This is the temp I shoot for if I know I need a good warm fire and fast cat light off (temps below freezing). I will run the stove top near the flue around 475-500, The cat probe will settle in at 1200-1400. This is with a plum full stove.

If I want more of a cat only (temps above freezing), cooler burn I will close the sled right at the 500 mark maybe a hair cooler. And try to keep the cat in the 1000 degree range. Maybe up to 1100ish. And the stove top near the flue will be 350-400. This is with about a 1/3 to half full stove.

I will add that I do close the sled halfway once the actual flame gets going. I position the cat lever parallel with the stove top, if that makes sense. I feel it warms up the cat and surrounding sled a little better leading to a much faster cat light off. I don't start making air adjustments till after cat is engaged.

I'm still learning this thing but feel I have it pretty well dialed in. Haven't had the cat stall yet. I'm sure I will start pushing it to lower temps as it gets warmer out and will find the low temp threshold that causes a stall. The best thing I did was read all kinds of threads on the stove over last summer. Lots of dos and don'ts can be found.

 

[Coyoterun]

My Ideal Steel is brand new, barely two weeks of running. I just have the flue probe and the magnetic stove top meter that came with the stove. The STT is set just to the right of the flue collar (top exhaust). I don't always monitor it because it's not readily visible from my chair. It's not nearly as responsive as the flue probe so I don't usually go by it. Sometimes it's not quite in the "active zone" (250dF) when the flue shows 550+, other times it's closer to 400dF. How hot the reload was matters of course, but how quickly a particular load catches fire matters too.

I had been using the 500-600 range because the manual says to engage the cat at 250-300dF single wall surface flue temp. (I have double wall probe temps). I see now the manual says to position the surface probe at 8-10" above the flue collar. That would be 12-14" above the stove top. I certainly could put my probe down 4-5", that wouldn't be hard.

I want to get a cat probe. I'd like a digital probe, and I believe the standard one that comes with the Auber isn't rated for direct flame. I figured I'd get something for next fall and haven't focused on finding something right away. The person I talked to at Woodstock wouldn't recommend any cat probe back when I ordered the stove, she said the flue probe was the reading I needed to use.

 

[JA600L]

If I had to guess, no offense op, but I suspect there was atleast one occasion where the stove was run with the bypass open and forgotten. It took a lot of heat to warp that metal that much. I've taken mine over 600 plenty of times before closing the bypass and it's never warped.

 

[Woody Stover]

I've taken mine over 600 plenty of times before closing the bypass and it's never warped.

Stove top meter? Where is it placed?