Ideal Steel Soapstone Liner Option. How Will This Affect It's Performance?

[JA600L]

Hi guys,
I'm with a lot of other people who are trying to decide if the Ideal Steel is the new stove to purchase. One of the options is for an internal soapstone liner.

My concern is how will this affect the heating up and cooling down of the stove? Will it delay a quick hot start? I'm sure it will help ease the heat release as the fire dies out.

My other concern is switching to a hybrid setup from my Quad non cat. I don't burn the Quad very hot as I want a low/ medium even burn while I'm at work. Will this stove put my 2006 ACT Quad to shame?

I'm really just curious on your thoughts?

Thanks for any opinions, I really like the hybrid idea. I think the use of secondary burn tubes with a cat should be a huge performance boost.

 

[toddnic]

I've got the Progress Hybrid and really like its performance. I do know that soapstone definitely takes longer to heat up but it also is putting off heat well after the fire has gone out. Personally I like prefer the soapstone. I had a old smokedragon years ago and there is no way that I would go back. I'm curious what hear what the Ideal Steel beta-testers have to say. Regarding the secondary burn tubes and the cat....its incredible the efficiency and the amount of heat produced.

 

[JA600L]

So the hybrid system is successful in your opinion? Do you see a lot of secondary burn or mostly cat? Do the secondaries keep the cat cleaner?

 

[toddnic]

So the hybrid system is successful in your opinion? Do you see a lot of secondary burn or mostly cat? Do the secondaries keep the cat cleaner?

The cat starts around 350 degrees on my stove and continues burning until the temp drops below 300 - 350 degrees. The secondaries run at a higher temperature. I enjoy watching the secondaries. Sometimes they will burn for up to two hours. Last night we sat watching the secondaries for about 30 minutes....really enjoyed the flames bouncing around at the top of the stove.

 

[JA600L]

How long are your burn times? On medium heat?

 

[toddnic]

Obviously there are a lot of factors (amount of wood, wood type, etc.) that will affect burn times but here is my normal evening process on a below freezing night. I normally do this around 9:00 PM.

1. Load stove between 1/2 to 2/3rd's full of wood (mixture of maple, oak, and birch - primary wood types where I live)
2. Wait for stove temp to reach 350 degrees and start the catalytic combustor
3. Bring the air all the way down and then come up 1/4 inch (very low air setting)

In the morning (6:00 - 7:00 am) I will still have plenty of coals to get a new fire going and stove temp will be around 250 degrees.

 

[Grisu]

Woodstock says that cat stoves usually shine at low or medium burn rates while secondary stoves are good at a high burn rate. Hybrids have the advantage to be efficient over the entire spectrum.

The soapstone liner should take longer to heat up but then keep the heat longer. If you plan on frequently letting the stove get cold and then start it up again, you may be happier without it. On the other hand, if you plan on constant burning, it may help maintaining the heat longer.

 

[unhdsm]

There is enough window frontage to put out heat pretty quick. The vents on the side are a little slower to start getting heat out but also the last part to stay hot. That is the stone on the outside. '
I was used to using a non cat stove and really had to learn to shut it down quicker to allow for a medium burn. When I let it get real hot I would get 9 hour burns. Now 11-12 is the norm, especially since it warmed up a bit and I only have to load 2x per day.
I think the secondaries keep the cat temp up and help it operate efficiently, so they end up playing off each other.
I would recommend the liner. Completely.

 

[smokedragon]

I am springing for the liner in mine.......my thought is the same reason I looked at hearthstone and woodstock in the first place, thermal mass.

You could just get firebrick. I imagine there won't be a noticeable difference in heat output because of so many other factors, but I just want it

 

[Backwoods Savage]

One big difference between the Progress and the Ideal Steel is that the catalyst in the IS gets more air to it and this should help and has now proven to help out a lot. On the difference between firebrick and soapstone for the liner, I don't think it will be a huge difference in how the stove operates and you probably won't notice it enough to even mention it. For sure there will be some difference but will it be enough to offset the difference in price? I am a soapstone lover myself but in the IS, I'm not sure which way I'd go.

 

[JA600L]

One big difference between the Progress and the Ideal Steel is that the catalyst in the IS gets more air to it and this should help and has now proven to help out a lot. On the difference between firebrick and soapstone for the liner, I don't think it will be a huge difference in how the stove operates and you probably won't notice it enough to even mention it. For sure there will be some difference but will it be enough to offset the difference in price? I am a soapstone lover myself but in the IS, I'm not sure which way I'd go.

Basically what I am deciding on is should I buy the stove with "the works" soapstone liner, ash pan, soapstone sides with design and cooktop. This set of options brings the stove up from $1800 to $2200.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

JA, that should not be a difficult decision to make. Myself, I'd go for the works and would also have the design made to our specs. Probably that would be an outdoor scene or animal, like elk, deer, caribou, etc. So while you are thinking, you might also consider what you want for a design. They could even do a portrait of you if you wish. The ideas are endless. Here are a couple just to show possibilities. They have a great artist working for them now that does some really great work and they have the machine to cut the designs really nice.

 

[weatherguy]

Basically what I am deciding on is should I buy the stove with "the works" soapstone liner, ash pan, soapstone sides with design and cooktop. This set of options brings the stove up from $1800 to $2200.

 

[weatherguy]

Something wacky going on with the site today, that's two posts I've had disappear.
I got the works, for the price you can't beat it and the ash pan is a convenience you'll be glad you got.

 

[HotCoals]

Just know that with a hybrid you will not get the longer burn times of a straight cat stove. Those secondary tubes will always be adding more air then needed for a real long burn. You would think they would really be a clean burning stove though.

 

[toddnic]

Basically what I am deciding on is should I buy the stove with "the works" soapstone liner, ash pan, soapstone sides with design and cooktop. This set of options brings the stove up from $1800 to $2200.

For $400 extra, I would definitely get the add-ons. I know that some don't want the ash pan but I can't imagine having to go through shoveling them out and having to deal with that mess when the ash pan is so easy. We also cook on top of our PH so I definitely would recommend the cooktop. I definitely like the price point....$2,200 is not bad with all the extras!

 

[JA600L]

Just know that with a hybrid you will not get the longer burn times of a straight cat stove. Those secondary tubes will always be adding more air then needed for a real long burn. You would think they would really be a clean burning stove though.

What good is really long burn on very low heat? I would almost never do that anyway.

 

[Huntindog1]

Havent seen it mentioned but soapstone is said to store more heat thats why they make soapstone stoves. Stoves usually have a peak in the heat curve soapstone flattens that curve out and you get more heat as the stove burns down closer to the end of the cycle. So it takes some of that heat during peak times and gives it back to you at the lower heat output time at the end of the burn cycle. People like stoves with alot of mass as mass stores heat and lets it out over a longer period of time. Soapstone is a more dense stone that adds more mass to the stove. It tames down the heat and you get a less harsh heat than a steel stove. Some say its a more comfortable heat.

If your heating from a basement trying to shoot heat up to the upstairs I like a steel stove that has the high peak heat curve, seems to get the heat upstairs better than a milder heat of a soapstone with a flattened out heating curve.

 

[HotCoals]

What good is really long burn on very low heat? I would almost never do that anyway.

When it's above 35 I like 24 hour burns with the house at 72 or so.
It's like the harley thing,if I have to explain it to you..

lol

 

[HotCoals]

Havent seen it mentioned but soapstone is said to store more heat thats why they make soapstone stoves. Stoves usually have a peak in the heat curve soapstone flattens that curve out and you get more heat as the stove burns down closer to the end of the cycle. So it takes some of that heat during peak times and gives it back to you at the lower heat output time at the end of the burn cycle. People like stoves with alot of mass as mass stores heat and lets it out over a longer period of time. Soapstone is a more dense stone that adds more mass to the stove. It tames down the heat and you get a less harsh heat than a steel stove. Some say its a more comfortable heat.

If your heating from a basement trying to shoot heat up to the upstairs I like a steel stove that has the high peak heat curve, seems to get the heat upstairs better than a milder heat of a soapstone with a flattened out heating curve.

How much heat can the stone really store is my question. I bet all my brick stores more.

 

[JA600L]

When it's above 35 I like 24 hour burns with the house at 72 or so.
It's like the harley thing,if I have to explain it to you..

lol

I usually shut her down at those temps. Haha that's a job for the heat pump.

 

[smokedragon]

Basically what I am deciding on is should I buy the stove with "the works" soapstone liner, ash pan, soapstone sides with design and cooktop. This set of options brings the stove up from $1800 to $2200.

I am going for the works for a couple of reasons:

1 - I get the design I want on my stove (they are working on it as we speak)
2 - I get some options that I want (like the andirons and the ash pan)
3 - The price cut you get for ordering the works basically makes the other stuff that I don't care about (like the soapstone liner) free.

How much heat can the stone really store is my question. I bet all my brick stores more.

If you have the same surface area of firebrick as soapstone, the soapstone will hold more heat (higher thermal density).

But as backwoods savage said, I doubt it would be enough that most people would notice.

 

[unhdsm]

I'm not sure if the stone helped or not but I just had enough coals to restart a fire after not touching the Ideal Steal for 56 hours.

 

[Christopix]

I'm not sure if the stone helped or not but I just had enough coals to restart a fire after not touching the Ideal Steal for 56 hours.

Wow! That is impressive! I'm psyched when I have just enough coals left for a hot re-start after 12 hours. 56 hours is amazing!

 

[Backwoods Savage]

I'm not sure if the stone helped or not but I just had enough coals to restart a fire after not touching the Ideal Steal for 56 hours.

One has to wonder if the depth of that firebox has something to do with it. If there is a lot of ashes in the firebox, those coals can stay hot for a long, long time. Still impressive.