Ideas for replacement of my Outdoor Wood boiler.

[Seasoned Oak]

Have you considered a regular EPA certified indoor wood stove, (not a boiler)you would probably get away with half the wood your now burning. And they are by nature gassifiers.I have a friend with an outdoor boiler and his wood consumption is 2 -3 times what mine is and he has a smaller house.

 

[dlabrie]

Have you considered a regular EPA certified indoor wood stove, (not a boiler)you would probably get away with half the wood your now burning. And they are by nature gassifiers.I have a friend with an outdoor boiler and his wood consumption is 2 -3 times what mine is and he has a smaller house.

We have had indoor wood stoves and boilers over the years in different houses. 10 years ago we went with the OWB and loved keeping the mess outdoors. I mentioned the idea to my better-half and it didn't fly.

 

[Pat32rf]

Have you ever thought of more insulation. Seems to me like you are burning a lot of wood.
Doesn't matter what fuel, insulation is going to save.....

 

[dlabrie]

Have you ever thought of more insulation. Seems to me like you are burning a lot of wood.
Doesn't matter what fuel, insulation is going to save.....

We actually had the house sealed up and insulated as much as was possible about 5 years ago. There isn't much I can do with the insulated 2X4 walls. I should, however, replace my windows but haven't gotten around to that yet.

 

[Pat32rf]

Doesn't matter what fuel, insulation is going to save.....

Seems like every item I read on old house, heating, building, etc makes it plain that new windows are purely comfort items instead of fuel savers.
When we bought our present house we found that all the exterior walls had 1" of closed cell foam board stuck to them. I covered the foam with drywall and made some new trim. That and some blown in attic cellulose reduced the heating load by almost half.....(caulked the old windows as well)

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Doesn't matter what fuel, insulation is going to save.....

Seems like every item I read on old house, heating, building, etc makes it plain that new windows are purely comfort items instead of fuel savers.
)

They say the best window insulates no better than the worst wall. They do have triple pane if you want to go to the next level.

 

[dlabrie]

My windows are Andersen sliders from 1973. The sealing strips between the windows are shot. On a really windy day, you can see the curtains move. I've tried to find replacement seals with no luck. You can't drop a replacement window in these frames; the entire unit has to come out and be replaced. The walls have R13 fiberglass insulation and when I resided the house I put ½” of rigid insulation under the new siding. The attic is piled high with cellulose insulation so I do believe the weak point in my insulation is the windows.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

. You can't drop a replacement window in these frames; .

Id be looking for a way to fit replacements. Or at least some kind of interior or exterior sealed storm windows.

 

[begreen]

Have you considered a regular EPA certified indoor wood stove, (not a boiler)you would probably get away with half the wood your now burning. And they are by nature gassifiers.

Have to agree that this is the route I would look into carefully. It could dramatically cut down wood consumption and waste heat. Plus, no power needed if that is important.

 

[begreen]

My windows are Andersen sliders from 1973. The sealing strips between the windows are shot. On a really windy day, you can see the curtains move. I've tried to find replacement seals with no luck. You can't drop a replacement window in these frames; the entire unit has to come out and be replaced. The walls have R13 fiberglass insulation and when I resided the house I put ½” of rigid insulation under the new siding. The attic is piled high with cellulose insulation so I do believe the weak point in my insulation is the windows.

In the least I'd be putting up storm windows, or temporary shrink to fit storms on the interior. They really work.

 

[Fred61]

I see you're in NH. Contact someone who sells or installs Harvey windows. With the large number of sizes they offer you should be able to get something to fit. I've used their new construction windows several times when replacements were not able to be installed. They're not fancy but very well built and tight. Any carpenter or installer worth his salt should be able to make the installation look original. I have them in my house.
Discloser: I have an account with Harvey but I don't benefit from any sales.

Edit: There are several types of heat loss. Infiltration is the worst of all.

 

[Tennman]

About 8 years ago I researched cost effective, indoor, gasification boilers. Outdoor gassers didn't exist then, but New Horizons was the leading importer of inexpensive gassers (didn't say best). I drove to WV, reviewed the designs and construction of their product line and been very happy with the BioMass. If I was making the same decision today with the same price point in mind, I'd consider the Attack. But would absolutely again pick the BioMass over the EKO. In general if you can spend a few thousand more on the boiler you can get into many excellent choices in the mid tier boilers. Running a gasser with storage and seasoned wood totally transforms the workload and experience. In boilers like anything else, you get what you pay for. Storage is the key to cutting the leash a wood boiler holds on your schedule. If I was buying a gasser today I'd at least budget to go to the next level. But if several grand is a deal breaker look at the New Horizons site.

 

[dlabrie]

Running a gasser with storage and seasoned wood totally transforms the workload and experience. In boilers like anything else, you get what you pay for. Storage is the key to cutting the leash a wood boiler holds on your schedule. If I was buying a gasser today I'd at least budget to go to the next level. But if several grand is a deal breaker look at the New Horizons site.

The problem I keep running into is I need 160-180* water for my slant fin baseboards. If I am understanding this correctly, gassers with storage are used in low radiant temp systems.

 

[Tennman]

I'm not sure what slant fin baseboards are. I think we have the worst case emitter... a water to air (WTA) heat exchanger in our duct work. Depending on the outside temp we can keep the place comfortable with 130-140*F water. Obviously the fan runs for quite a long time and it feels like heat pump warmed air. But on days when it's in the 50's not a big deal. Been really enjoyable here lately to do a burn every other day charging 1000 gal. 160*F on the low end is pretty hot to keep comfortable. But that too could be linked to inefficient insulation and poor windows. 160* would probably get much lower if the home was tighter. FYI, our home is old and also very leaky but can be kept acceptable down to 135-140*F.

Yes, radiant it more efficient using lower temps, but we don't have radiant and there's many others here that don't. Since you're running a boiler now I guess you know well the minimum temps those emitters need for your home. I'm guessing slant fins don't have a fan, relying on convection to move air?

Somehow you need to be able to use a broader temp spectrum.... down to 130-140*F. Welcome and take your time asking questions here.

 

[dlabrie]

I'm not sure what slant fin baseboards are. I think we have the worst case emitter... a water to air (WTA) heat exchanger in our duct work. Depending on the outside temp we can keep the place comfortable with 130-140*F water. Obviously the fan runs for quite a long time and it feels like heat pump warmed air. But on days when it's in the 50's not a big deal. Been really enjoyable here lately to do a burn every other day charging 1000 gal. 160*F on the low end is pretty hot to keep comfortable. But that too could be linked to inefficient insulation and poor windows. 160* would probably get much lower if the home was tighter. FYI, our home is old and also very leaky but can be kept acceptable down to 135-140*F.

Yes, radiant it more efficient using lower temps, but we don't have radiant and there's many others here that don't. Since you're running a boiler now I guess you know well the minimum temps those emitters need for your home. I'm guessing slant fins don't have a fan, relying on convection to move air?

Somehow you need to be able to use a broader temp spectrum.... down to 130-140*F. Welcome and take your time asking questions here.

Slant fin is a forced hot water baseboard radiator. When the house was built, the radiators were sized to a boiler that produced 180* water. If I wanted to use anything less than 160* water, I would have to replace the current baseboards with low temperature baseboards. I really don't want to go that route.

 

[Tennman]

Oh... I'm only familiar with the wood/pellet world here. Makes sense there are boiler systems out there that maintains a constant, high water temp. I can see running that CB to maintain 180* water would inhale wood and keep you very busy. Thinking about that makes me tired.

 

[maple1]

The problem I keep running into is I need 160-180* water for my slant fin baseboards. If I am understanding this correctly, gassers with storage are used in low radiant temp systems.

I have Slant Fin baseboards. Gasser & storage. I can run my storage down to the 130 range before I light a fire & before the house starts losing temp (depends on the weather). Comes down to how much baseboard you have & what it was designed for originally.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

I have finned baseboard,and when its very cold out i run it at 200 to 210 Degrees. Otherwise i start losing room temp. I do have a poorly insulated very old house i would add. Cast iron radiators fare much better with cooler water temps and the King of warm water heat is still radiant floor heat.

 

[dlabrie]

the King of warm water heat is still radiant floor heat.

You are so right! If my cellar didn't have finished ceilings, I would have installed radiant floor heat throughout my house long ago.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

You are so right! If my cellar didn't have finished ceilings, I would have installed radiant floor heat throughout my house long ago.

In in the process of closing up the last of my basement ceiling ,but as you said now would be an excellent time to install some radiant underfloor tubing as my kitchen is above.
Ill have to look into the cost of the regulator and manifold and an additional pump.Just for one room it may not be cost effective.

 

[Hydronics]

You might consider a lower priced downdraft such as Econoburn or EKO enclosed next to your wood lean-to. Plumb it with tees for future storage. When you get the $ add the storage if you deem it worthwhile.
You can run them like an outdoor boiler. Obviously not as efficient as with storage but much better than a CB and your 160-180 water temp requirement is not an issue. Something to consider.
Hopefully your underground pex has an oxygen barrier.

 

[dlabrie]

You might consider a lower priced downdraft such as Econoburn or EKO enclosed next to your wood lean-to. Plumb it with tees for future storage. When you get the $ add the storage if you deem it worthwhile.
You can run them like an outdoor boiler. Obviously not as efficient as with storage but much better than a CB and your 160-180 water temp requirement is not an issue. Something to consider.
Hopefully your underground pex has an oxygen barrier.

I was wondering if I could do something like that. I could actually put it in the corner of the garage with a door into my woodshed. Would the Storage be in the garage or in the house? Would it have to be pressurized? I am not sure if my PEX is oxygen barrier or not. Here is a pict of it, can someone tell me if it is?
Thanks

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Mine has the words Hydronic Barrier Tubing A few Feet from those numbers

 

[Hydronics]

Putting the boiler in the garage sounds most economical.
With only 1" tubing you'd have a tough time carrying the flow to heat storage in the house as you came up on the higher temps of storage you'd likely have idling of the boiler. How far is it to the house? Storage in the garage is likely your best bet.
You should have O2 barrier or a heat exchanger, there are also chemical treatment options. If it doesn't say barrier, it likely isn't.

 

[dlabrie]

With only 1" tubing you'd have a tough time carrying the flow to heat storage in the house as you came up on the higher temps of storage you'd likely have idling of the boiler. How far is it to the house? Storage in the garage is likely your best bet.

85 feet to the house.