I'm green, but my wood isn't

[magillil]

Hello! I got my first wood insert, a Neo 2.5, three days ago. So far, I haven't been able to get a good fire going. I am using small, tree branches from my yard trees, which are aged way longer than 6 months - more like 3 years or more. I don't have many split logs and don't know if they might burn better. I am not sure what type of trees are in the mix of wood I am using, but possibly oak and hackberry. I stack the small branches, so that there is room between them, and I have wadded newspaper at the bottom between the branches. I use an "Electrolight" to start the fire, and as long as I'm holding it to the paper or wood, the fire is great. But when I remove the Electrolight, the fire dies down to almost nothing.

The guy who sold me the Neo explained and showed me how to build a fire, but he was in a hurry, and I don't remember much. The only thing I do remember is don't open the door quickly when the fire is going! I also am not sure about using the sliding bar at the bottom, which controls the air flow, I believe. I know to start it on the far left, but how can I tell when to slide it to the right?

I cleaned the glass after only two fires, because there was sooty, black residue in each lower corner of the glass. Does this mean that the wood was damp? The ash is very white, and I left about an inch of ash bed for the second fire. There were also pieces of wood still left in the box, so everything didn't burn.

Also, if I do get a good fire going, how long is it supposed to be a full-on blaze, before it becomes embers and/or before I need to add more wood? I keep reading about how long the fires are supposed to last, but I don't know what they are supposed to look like? Thanks for any help!

 

[Woody Stover]

Welcome, magillil. I've had pretty small unsplit rounds of Oak, 2-3", that still bubbled water out the end even though they had been cut to length for a couple years. Oak is one of the slowest-drying woods there is. Wood that is not dry enough accounts for most of the troubles that new burners may have. Others will be along soon but in the meantime... https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...lem-stoves-air-is-restricted-faq-about.59225/

 

[Woody Stover]

Get these at the local farm store.

 

[Poindexter]

What is the diameter of the average branch you are describing?

I am all in favor of burning every possible stick of every tree i kill, but there is a reasonable limit.

Is there any birch in your mix? Any at all?

 

[smokee]

Hi magillil. I've got a Neo 2.5 insert myself. This is our 3rd winter with it. Once you get your burning method down pat, I think you're going to like the insert.
First thing, make sure you've got dry, seasoned wood.

For a no fail way to start a fire cold, we like to make the wax egg crate starters. You can buy a stack of egg crates at the farm store cheap ($1 or$2). If you've got old stubs of candles melt those in a sauce pan and pour them into egg crates filling each one about 1/2 inch. We'll save candle stubs (or pick up old candles for pennies at garage sales) and make a whole burning season's worth at once.
In our Neo we use the top down fire method. Place two splits North/South (front to back) on either side of the air vent that's at the front center. Then put smaller pieces and kindling on top of the splits. Then put the egg crate starter in the middle of the kindling and light. Those wax crates will burn HOT for 5+ minutes. Fool proof.

We've found it's best to leave the door open a crack for the first two or three minutes. Then close the door with the air control all the way open (left.)

Do you have a thermometer? I found it helpful when learning. Once you learn, you won't depend on the thermometer as much, but it's a good tool when learning. With a flush insert like this it's best to use an IR thermometer, and shoot for temp on the front, next to the top of the door (between the door and the surround).

Once the stove hits 400F, I start turning down the air - usually in 1/3 steps about 10 mins apart. You'll need for the stove to be 350-400F plus to get good reburn. One of my mistakes in the beginning was turning down the air too quickly, and having cold dark fires with poor reburn - and also black glass because it wasn't burning hot enough. Don't be afraid to let it run hot. I've heard, and I agree, the Pacific energy stoves like to cruise about 600F.

Oh, the corners of the Neo do like to go black. Also you'll notice a stronger right side burn. Other owners have noticed this too. To keep the glass clean, start the fire with the door open a crack for the first 2-3 mins, use only dry wood and let it burn hot.

One more thing. This stove likes bigger splits. Ours will cruise for hours with 3 or 4, larger splits (7-8+" across.) When you process your wood, keep that in mind. Don't split everything small.
Good luck.

 

[magillil]

Welcome, magillil. I've had pretty small unsplit rounds of Oak, 2-3", that still bubbled water out the end even though they had been cut to length for a couple years. Oak is one of the slowest-drying woods there is. Wood that is not dry enough accounts for most of the troubles that new burners may have. Others will be along soon but in the meantime... https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...lem-stoves-air-is-restricted-faq-about.59225/

Welcome, magillil. I've had pretty small unsplit rounds of Oak, 2-3", that still bubbled water out the end even though they had been cut to length for a couple years. Oak is one of the slowest-drying woods there is. Wood that is not dry enough accounts for most of the troubles that new burners may have. Others will be along soon but in the meantime... https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...lem-stoves-air-is-restricted-faq-about.59225/

Thanks, Woody. I did not see those helpful threads when I was looking around. I will spend some time checking them out. I will also look for those fire starter aids. I appreciate your help.

 

[magillil]

What is the diameter of the average branch you are describing?

I am all in favor of burning every possible stick of every tree i kill, but there is a reasonable limit.

Is there any birch in your mix? Any at all?

Hi Poindexter. My branches are 2" - 4" in diameter. Yes, there are birch trees in my area, though none on my property. There are large birch and river birches. Are both good for fires? Kentucky has birch, sycamore, maple, redbuds, magnolias, oak, beech, linden, cypress, locust, cherry, walnut, ash, hawthorn, dogwood, hickory, and tulip poplars, to name a few that I'm familiar with. I forgot to mention that a large pine fell a few months ago and is lying in my side yard. Would that be a good tree to have someone split for me? There is also a hackberry which I had taken down because it was dying, and it's also lying in the side yard.

 

[magillil]

Hi magillil. I've got a Neo 2.5 insert myself. This is our 3rd winter with it. Once you get your burning method down pat, I think you're going to like the insert.
First thing, make sure you've got dry, seasoned wood.

For a no fail way to start a fire cold, we like to make the wax egg crate starters. You can buy a stack of egg crates at the farm store cheap ($1 or$2). If you've got old stubs of candles melt those in a sauce pan and pour them into egg crates filling each one about 1/2 inch. We'll save candle stubs (or pick up old candles for pennies at garage sales) and make a whole burning season's worth at once.
In our Neo we use the top down fire method. Place two splits North/South (front to back) on either side of the air vent that's at the front center. Then put smaller pieces and kindling on top of the splits. Then put the egg crate starter in the middle of the kindling and light. Those wax crates will burn HOT for 5+ minutes. Fool proof.

We've found it's best to leave the door open a crack for the first two or three minutes. Then close the door with the air control all the way open (left.)

Do you have a thermometer? I found it helpful when learning. Once you learn, you won't depend on the thermometer as much, but it's a good tool when learning. With a flush insert like this it's best to use an IR thermometer, and shoot for temp on the front, next to the top of the door (between the door and the surround).

Once the stove hits 400F, I start turning down the air - usually in 1/3 steps about 10 mins apart. You'll need for the stove to be 350-400F plus to get good reburn. One of my mistakes in the beginning was turning down the air too quickly, and having cold dark fires with poor reburn - and also black glass because it wasn't burning hot enough. Don't be afraid to let it run hot. I've heard, and I agree, the Pacific energy stoves like to cruise about 600F.

Oh, the corners of the Neo do like to go black. Also you'll notice a stronger right side burn. Other owners have noticed this too. To keep the glass clean, start the fire with the door open a crack for the first 2-3 mins, use only dry wood and let it burn hot.

One more thing. This stove likes bigger splits. Ours will cruise for hours with 3 or 4, larger splits (7-8+" across.) When you process your wood, keep that in mind. Don't split everything small.
Good luck.

Hi Smokee. Thanks for all the information. I know I will like my stove, once I know what I'm doing. When you use the candle stubs, doesn't the wax collect in the bottom of the box, or does the fire burn it completely? In your "no fail" paragraph, are the north/south splits the 7 - 8" logs you mentioned later? I do not have a thermostat, but it seems that a lot of folks do, so I will invest in one. Are there special places to get an IR thermostat? (What does IR stand for?)

I am confused about the button which the manual says has I for manual and O for automatic which works the blower. When I put it on O, the blower works and I can adjust it with the knob to the right of it. When it's on I, nothing happens. Is something supposed to happen on that setting if the fire is hot enough?

 

[Poindexter]

Birch will rot away to dust before it ever dries out if left unsplit. Birch over about 3" i split. Birch under 3" i use my chainsaw to slice the bark open down the length of the piece (much easier to do while still attached to the tree).

Your other woods are not familiar to me.

 

[Simonkenton]

Round unsplit pieces of trees are much harder to light than split wood. The sharp edges of split wood ignite much easier.

 

[smokee]

When we use the wax egg crates it totally burns up - no residue left at all.
I don't usually start with big pieces. The two north/south splits I start with are usually in the 4-5" diameter range. The first burn of the day in the cold stove I start with the "top down", method. The kindling burns down into the splits on the bottom. After about 30 minutes there are only the splits remaining with the kindling turning to hot coals. Then I load a few splits on top of the two buring splits in an east/west (sideways) configuration. After these new splits are lit strongly and the stove is 400F+ I start the air turndown process.
After the first burn cycle and the stove is still hot and there is a coal bed the next load is much easier. Rake the coals forward toward the door and load in 3-4 splits. It'll start quick quick and after the new split load is fully burning and the stove is again 400F+ start the air turn down process.
IR means ifrared. You know the thermometer "guns". With a flush insert there is really no place to put a thermometer - until I figured out this year to take the grate off in front of the top vent and put a stove thermo in there. In the day its an easy enough read, but in the evening I need a flash light to read the thermo.
As for the fan, there are two settings - ON and AUTO, there is really no off. So if you have it set to AUTO and the fan's not running, then your stove is too cold (or your auto thermostat is broken.) I think the fan kicks on at 180F or so. It could be you can't get things cooking enough with the small stuff and kindling you mentioned you're using.
I've attached pics of an IR thermo and a pic of my insert with the thermometer tucked behind the air grate.
Good luck.

 

[Woody Stover]

there are birch trees in my area, though none on my property. There are large birch and river birches

If you can grab a dead River Birch, do it. What a fantastic fragrance when burned!

Kentucky has birch, sycamore, maple, redbuds, magnolias, oak, beech, linden, cypress, locust, cherry, walnut, ash, hawthorn, dogwood, hickory, and tulip poplars, to name a few that I'm familiar with. I forgot to mention that a large pine fell a few months ago...There is also a hackberry

Let's not overlook Red (Slippery) Elm, Black Tupelo (Blackgum,) Sweetgum ( I don't mess with either Gum,) Coffeetree, Red Mulberry, Hedge-apple, Pecan, Persimmon and Sassafras. Get soft Maple and dead White Ash split and stacked in the wind now to get you through until the Oak, Hickory, Black Locust, Hard (Sugar) Maple and other dense woods get dry after 2-3 years split and stacked. I split Pine small and use a few finger-sized pieces to kick off a top-down start.

 

[magillil]

I think I finally got far enough down in the wood pile where the wood wasn't wet. And I stacked it with advice from you guys. Regardless of what the magic was, I had to leave the living room, because it got too hot. My furnace thermostat is set at 67 degrees, and the room temp is now 71. Woohoo! The sun room which is next to the living room got to 69 degrees. It's so exciting, when you finally get a "real" fire. I still have a lot to learn, but everyone has been so helpful that I think I'll get there sooner than later. Thanks to everyone for their contributions!

 

[magillil]

If you can grab a dead River Birch, do it. What a fantastic fragrance when burned! Let's not overlook Red (Slippery) Elm, Black Tupelo (Blackgum,) Sweetgum ( I don't mess with either Gum,) Coffeetree, Red Mulberry, Hedge-apple, Pecan, Persimmon and Sassafras. Get soft Maple and dead White Ash split and stacked in the wind now to get you through until the Oak, Hickory, Black Locust, Hard (Sugar) Maple and other dense woods get dry after 2-3 years split and stacked. I split Pine small and use a few finger-sized pieces to kick off a top-down start.

I wish I knew where there was a dead River Birch tree. There are many in my neighborhood, but I don't think any are dead or dying. I may need to go to a tree trimming company to get some split wood, since I don't have a chain saw, and I like my hands and arms attached to my body

 

[magillil]

When we use the wax egg crates it totally burns up - no residue left at all.
I don't usually start with big pieces. The two north/south splits I start with are usually in the 4-5" diameter range. The first burn of the day in the cold stove I start with the "top down", method. The kindling burns down into the splits on the bottom. After about 30 minutes there are only the splits remaining with the kindling turning to hot coals. Then I load a few splits on top of the two buring splits in an east/west (sideways) configuration. After these new splits are lit strongly and the stove is 400F+ I start the air turndown process.
After the first burn cycle and the stove is still hot and there is a coal bed the next load is much easier. Rake the coals forward toward the door and load in 3-4 splits. It'll start quick quick and after the new split load is fully burning and the stove is again 400F+ start the air turn down process.
IR means ifrared. You know the thermometer "guns". With a flush insert there is really no place to put a thermometer - until I figured out this year to take the grate off in front of the top vent and put a stove thermo in there. In the day its an easy enough read, but in the evening I need a flash light to read the thermo.
As for the fan, there are two settings - ON and AUTO, there is really no off. So if you have it set to AUTO and the fan's not running, then your stove is too cold (or your auto thermostat is broken.) I think the fan kicks on at 180F or so. It could be you can't get things cooking enough with the small stuff and kindling you mentioned you're using.
I've attached pics of an IR thermo and a pic of my insert with the thermometer tucked behind the air grate.
Good luck.

View attachment 218437 View attachment 218438

Smokee, thanks for the photos. I don't think I'm ready to fool around with removing the grate to put a thermostat behind it, but it was clever of you to figure it out! Does the piece that you put behind the vent register the temp, and the IR gun when pointed at it gives you the correct temp?

So, is the On setting for the blower with the top half pushed down, and the Auto setting with the bottom half pushed down or is it the opposite? I don't hear anything when the top section is pushed down, but when the bottom section is pushed down, I hear the motor, which I can adjust with the knob that turns to the right of the On/Auto button

 

[smokee]

Glad you got a hot fire going. The first couple seasons I used the IR thermometer by checking the temp of the stove right next to the door. Now with the stove thermometer on top of the stove I don't need the IR, it's just a little harder to read.
On mine, auto is with the bottom half of the button depressed. We usually run the fan fairly low. We still get good convection and the fan is pretty quiet on low.
Good luck getting your wood together this season and learning your insert.

 

[Woody Stover]

I may need to go to a tree trimming company to get some split wood,

What length is recommended for that stove?

 

[magillil]

What length is recommended for that stove?

I believe 19" is the max and 18" is recommended.

 

[magillil]

Glad you got a hot fire going. The first couple seasons I used the IR thermometer by checking the temp of the stove right next to the door. Now with the stove thermometer on top of the stove I don't need the IR, it's just a little harder to read.
On mine, auto is with the bottom half of the button depressed. We usually run the fan fairly low. We still get good convection and the fan is pretty quiet on low.
Good luck getting your wood together this season and learning your insert.

So it sounds like I can get an IR thermometer to find out the temps of my stove.
Mine is the same with Auto on the bottom and On on the top.
I also have ceiling fans which are set for winter and pull air up instead of blowing down.

 

[weatherguy]

Congrats on the good fire, youll find all newer stoves require dry, seasoned wood. Most of us estimate what need for a year and have 3 times that in our yard, that way you'll always have nice seasoned wood and hot fires. While you work on getting ahead you can burn compressed wood products.
Good luck

 

[magillil]

Congrats on the good fire, youll find all newer stoves require dry, seasoned wood. Most of us estimate what need for a year and have 3 times that in our yard, that way you'll always have nice seasoned wood and hot fires. While you work on getting ahead you can burn compressed wood products.
Good luck

Thanks. I ordered a rick today, and it will be here tomorrow. I see stacking in my future, which will probably wear me out. I can't imagine having as much wood as you guys do. I love using tools, but I think I'm beyond the age or ability of being able to handle a chain saw. In fact, I'm not sure I have ever been strong or confident enough to use one successfully.

 

[Joyboy]

Thanks. I ordered a rick today, and it will be here tomorrow. I see stacking in my future, which will probably wear me out. I can't imagine having as much wood as you guys do. I love using tools, but I think I'm beyond the age or ability of being able to handle a chain saw. In fact, I'm not sure I have ever been strong or confident enough to use one successfully.

You might be surprised. It takes very little strength to run a small chainsaw. They make very light weight, low power chainsaws that are available with assisted start. Even the cordless battery chainsaws can do the light cutting. Being willing to try might count for more than confidence. I had zero confidence when I first started.

Talking to a knowledgeable person,reading the manual, etc. would be a good place to start if you want to attempt it.

Obviously this involves a lot of effort and some investment in this stage of the burning process. Only you know where you draw the line and if it’s worth it.

Best regards

 

[magillil]

You might be surprised. It takes very little strength to run a small chainsaw. They make very light weight, low power chainsaws that are available with assisted start. Even the cordless battery chainsaws can do the light cutting. Being willing to try might count for more than confidence. I had zero confidence when I first started.

Talking to a knowledgeable person,reading the manual, etc. would be a good place to start if you want to attempt it.

Obviously this involves a lot of effort and some investment in this stage of the burning process. Only you know where you draw the line and if it’s worth it.

Best regards

Well, that's all good stuff to know. What's "assisted start"? I'm sure I'd enjoy cutting up wood, but now that I think of it, after I cut up the trees which are lying in my side yard, I'd have no more trees to cut. I'll continue buying wood, at least for now. I got the wood stacked that was delivered today, but I need a bigger tarp. I hope my back isn't sore in the morning.

 

[Joyboy]

Well, that's all good stuff to know. What's "assisted start"? I'm sure I'd enjoy cutting up wood, but now that I think of it, after I cut up the trees which are lying in my side yard, I'd have no more trees to cut. I'll continue buying wood, at least for now. I got the wood stacked that was delivered today, but I need a bigger tarp. I hope my back isn't sore in the morning.

Assisted start is a spring inside the starter assembly that helps turn the motor over when you pull the starter cord. Makes the starting process a little less physical. Lol

Nothing wrong with buying your wood if you can find a good source.