Insert v. freestanding stove

[TomatoLover]

We are considering adding an insert or stove in the upstairs fireplace (have old non-EPA wood stove beast in lower level of raised ranch/split level). The new stove wood be in the living room and tasked with heating the upstairs (1350 sq. ft.). It would either be an insert or free standing stove in (or in front of) masonry fireplace. We intend to use the existing chimney (with appropriate liner and pro install).

Questions: What's the difference, aside from aesthetics, between an insert and freestanding stove in terms of heat output, heat control, etc.? Can we have a freestanding wood stove on the hearth (or in the existing fireplace) and still use the existing chimney flu (trying to avoid putting a stove pipe through the cathedral ceiling)?

Regardless of which we go with, none of the options are designed to heat exactly 1350 sq. ft. Therefore, do we go with smaller (1200 sq. ft.) or larger (1800 sq. ft.) insert/stove designs, keeping in mind that we will have some heat rising from the beast in the lower level and we have cathedral ceilings (ceiling fans are in place). House was built in late 70s, but has new windows, doors, and attic insulation. It's fairly tight, not too drafty. I'd like to keep the LR around 70-72, bedrooms down the hall can be cooler (68-ish).

 

[branchburner]

An insert requires a blower to circulate the heat, so is not as effective during power outages as a free-standing stove. A freestanding wood stove on the hearth can still use the existing chimney flue. You may need to extend the hearth, however (as I did). I would opt for the larger (1800 sf) stove, as the bigger firebox gives longer burn times and more output when it's really cold. Something around a 2 cu ft size is good for your needs.

 

[mellow]

Go freestanding and extend your hearth. From what you are saying you are looking a Woodstock Fireview with a rear exhaust option would fit the bill, you will want something that can run low and slow to keep that room at only 72 with the other heat from downstairs, in the really windy cold days you will want the extra power to help heat the upstairs. Usually running a fan at the end of the hallway blowing the cold air towards the stove room will form a convective loop.

Check your lintel height, that will be a main factor when it comes to installing a free standing in front of a fireplace.

 

[mstoelton]

I recommend a nice insert, but then I have two so I'm not objective.

The advantage of an insert is that you may not need to extend the hearth, and it is in the fireplace opening and therefore more out of the way when not in use.

The inserts need a fan to distribute the heat, but they can be very nice. Mine keep the house at a very pleasant 70-75 degrees. I'm not to concerned about a power outage. I have a back-up generator.

Clyde #2 is on the main floor - 1600 square feet. Ceiling fans keep the air circulating. I will turn on the furnace when it gets below 30 as a back-up. It will only run when we are away from the house for long periods.

 

[tarzan]

I'm probably going to be in the majority when I say, go free standing if possible.

 

[Sons924]

my vote is freestanding if it is possible. More radiant heat.

 

[fire_man]

freestanding gives you more heat bang for the buck. The only advantage I can think of for an insert is the little bit of floor space you gain - and possibly a lower lintel height requirement.

 

[bholler]

Freestanders will give you a little more heat but inserts can work very well also if installed correctly. I dont know what branch burner means by being able to use the existing flue if it is a fireplace it will need a liner either way and a freestander will probably need an extended hearth

 

[fossil]

My ideal installation would be a freestanding stove that can be slid far enough into the fireplace that the flue can be connected directly from the stove flue collar to the full-height stainless liner to daylight, without a 90° elbow off of a rear-exit stove. Most typically, the thing that precludes this is insufficient height of the fireplace opening to accommodate the selected stove. That said, there are zillions of perfectly performing hearth stove installations using a rear exit from the stove into a 90° and up into the liner. Just a bit trickier to sweep. The really problematic fireplaces are the ones where the opening height can't even accommodate a rear exit stove sitting in front of it. In those situations, an insert is really the only solution. If you'll provide the dimensions of the fireplace, you'll get lots of specific appliance suggestions. As said above, inserts require electric power for the blowers for best performance, freestanders are better radiators, and I always say it's best to go a bit bigger than smaller in terms of firebox volume. A picture of the existing fireplace along with the dimensions would be really helpful. Welcome to Hearth.com! Rick

BTW: About your comment concerning the fact that none of the options you've looked at being advertised to "heat exactly 1350 ft²"...nothing about heating with a solid fuel-burning appliance is "exact". Nothing.

 

[fire_man]

My ideal installation would be a freestanding stove that can be slid far enough into the fireplace that the flue can be connected directly from the stove flue collar to the full-height stainless liner to daylight, without a 90° elbow off of a rear-exit stove.

The problem with this setup is you are pushing the stove further back into the fireplace and losing heating efficiency. Straight from my owner's manual:

We do not recommend placing the stove inside the fireplace, as it would be difficult to access the control levers, load the stove, and much of the heat radiating off the stove would not circulate into the room.

 

[fossil]

If I had a stove sans any sort of side controls, and I had a properly fitted block-off plate installed in the top of the firebox, I wouldn't hesitate to install a stove just exactly as described, provided it all fit up nicely. Quite obviously, there are exceptions. My Lopi Liberty has a bypass control on the right side of the rear of the firebox, for example. Some folks really love side-load stoves. That's why I began the sentence with, "My ideal...". A front-loading freestander with a blower installed will perform beautifully just as I described (ask Brother Bart and any number of others here). It'll do almost as well even without the blower, because it's a rare fireplace that will completely "eat" the wood stove, and in either a hearth stove or insert installation I'd consider a block-off plate to be necessary. Rick

 

[bholler]

I agree with you for the most part fossil as long as most of the stove is still outside of the firebox. If you slide it to far in you will actually be worse off than if it was an insert because allot of the radiant heat will go into the masonry. Now if it is an internal fireplace that is not a bad thing but if it is exterior that would be a waste. If it is slid all or most of the way in you would be better off with an insert with its convective jacket

 

[fossil]

Right, well, let's not let an esoteric discussion of "my ideal" get us too far off track here...let's see if we can get some fireplace dimensions out of the OP, then go from there. Rick

 

[bholler]

sorry fossil didnt mean to get off track

 

[BrotherBart]

I have no opinion.

 

[fossil]

sorry fossil didnt mean to get off track

Oh hell, we do it all the time...this time I just had a rare opportunity to see it happening and put the brakes on.

 

[fossil]

So...TomatoLover...you measure and photograph that fireplace for us yet?

 

[TomatoLover]

OP here. Brother Bart, love the pic and your "no opinion." We are considering an Englander as well.

In our lower level, we have an old non-EPA beast that sits on the hearth and uses the existing chimney flue. This is what we'd like to be able to do upstairs as well. The first pic below is the lower level beast; the second pic is the FP upstairs where we are considering adding a stove.





After my husband cleans up his toys sitting on the hearth, ideally we could put a freestander on the hearth?
The measurements are:

Hearth depth: 21"
Opening top to bottom: 29 "
Opening width: 42"
Opening diagonal: 51"

Firebox depth: this gets tricky because it is slanted, as you can see in the pic. At the top of the firebox, depth is only 16"; at the bottom of the firebox, depth is 21".

OK, so is this information a game changer?

 

[bholler]

Well it looks like you will need a hearth extension to do a free stander upstairs it is not an issue with the other one as long as that tile is over concrete. Also you will need a liner and you should have one on that old stove to using the existing flue is not safe or efficient. It is a real pain to clean and unless you have a liner atleast running up into the clay liners it is against code.

 

[BrotherBart]

Yeah that 29" height and 21" depth are for sure. That is a candidate for the Regency Hearth Heater.

http://www.regency-fire.com/Products/Wood/Wood-Inserts/H2100.aspx

 

[TomatoLover]

bholler - thanks. I should have been more clear -- the lower level air-tite uses the existing chimney, but it has a liner and is well cared for by the chimney sweep! Since we installed the tile, we know it is tile over concrete. As for the hearth extension, what does that entail?

 

[TomatoLover]

BrotherBart -- is that an Englander in your first pic? It looks like it is slid back into the firebox. How far back? Also, is our 29" top to bottom opening to short for that option?

 

[TomatoLover]

Fossil - I like your ideal set up. Can I do that with my dimensions?

 

[bholler]

Good to hear i missunderstood

 

[mstoelton]

Based on your dimensions that opening should fit several nice inserts including the Clydesdale, PE summit, and several others and with the 21 inch hearth you may not have to extend depending on the extension of the insert into the room. I know you can put the Clyde into that fireplace with just an insulated liner and a block-off plate.

The Clyde has a 2.4 cu. ft firebox