INSTALL WOOD STOVE in a 1950's brick fireplace- Advice sought!

[RickBlaine]

I am a long time lurker but first time poster here on hearth.com. I seek your counsel as I want to sit by a fire! Please see pictures below and throw some advice and suggestions my way. Thank you!

We are in a 1450 sq ft. single-story brick ranch home (built 1957) just north of Chicago, IL. We would like to add a medium-sized wood burning stove into the existing fireplace to lightly supplement the heat from the natural gas furnace. The fireplace is in the “open floor plan” part of the house- about 500 sq. ft.

We have some questions and would welcome a discussion and your wise counsel in order to learn:

1) We see some chimney liners are flexible, and some are solid, 3-foot sections. Is one better than the other? Can we add solid 3-foot sections, one at a time, and just connect them before lowering them into the existing chimney? It is a “straight shot” from fireplace to the clay tile- no bends.

2) Should the liner simply be insulated, or double-walled, or triple-walled?

3) I will need to remove the existing iron throat damper and some bricks to create a 6” round opening for the liner to fit through. What type of fireplace-worthy cement can be used to seal the opening around the liner- one which will dry horizontally with nothing to support it?

Please see photograph of my existing fireplace and dimensions. The back of the fireplace curves upwards so that the base of the fireplace has a much greater depth than does the top of the fireplace opening. This will limit my size of wood burning stove.

4) Suggestions for extending our hearth? This way I can fit a larger, pedestal-style stove with blower. The entire stove will stick out a few inches past the fireplace opening- so I would like to expand the hearth by a foot past where the stove ends. As it exists now, I can fit a small pedestal-style stove (the type with legs will not work as the front legs will have nothing underneath them) with the majority of the weight supported by the existing hearth. In order to fit a larger stove, I need to extend the hearth.

5) Am thinking of a Drolet brand stove. It will be our first stove…

Please, any thoughts, suggestions, or advice would be appreciated. We are trying to get use out of the fireplace, and would enjoy a fire everyday during the Chicago winters. Heavy work does not scare me- it excites me.

Here is a picture of the fireplace with dimensions (the sliding screen doors will come off):


Here is a picture of the fireplace from the side. See how it curves?:

 

[DAKSY]

Welcome to Hearth.com, Rick. You will get a number of answers to your post as soon as everybody else wakes up.
The liner you choose whether solid or flexible, will be single wall. Insulation may be required by the manufacturer.
If it isn't, you can get by with a block-off plate in the damper area & insulation under the cap.
Your question about the cement is gonna hafta be answered by a masonry guy, but I'm thinking that you'll hafta support what ever you put in there until it cures, so you might as well install a removable block-off plate...
Take a look at the install manual for whatever stove you choose. Your chimney is probably about 4' too short & will have to be extended.
Your hearth is going to have extend out to be 16" MINIMUM from the front load door of your stove.
Have you considered a fireplace insert? You can add an 18" x 48" hearth pad & avoid the hearth extension...
Others to chime in shortly...

 

[mass_burner]

Sound like your home is similar in footprint to mine, mid century ranch, 1950 sq. Ft., open floor plan for kitchen, LR, dining room and family room. I would definitely go with an insert looking at your fireplace. Get the biggest box you can within your aesthetic tastes.

 

[mellow]

Flue height is going to be an issue, you really need 15 feet for a good draft.

I would build a raised hearth pad in front of that fireplace to match the fireplace opening and install a free standing rear vent stove, you might be able to fit a top vent stove in there but you will save yourself a lot of trouble by going with a rear vent stove like Woodstock.

Plenty of pictures on past hearth builds on here for you to search and see how they did them.

What is your budget for this project?

 

[RickBlaine]

@DAKSY: Thank you for the reply and for the welcome.
1) I see now that the flexible liner has an insulation wrap that comes with it, and that these double-walled solid pipes are generally used for exterior piping outside of the house....
2) Good idea on a removable plate to help the cement cure properly, thank you.
3) Yes, I figured I would have to extend it but did not know 15 feet. A neighbor's house is close to mine, so I may have to have the pipe extend upwards of 4 or 5 feet above the clay square. I saw a few pics and videos of these "extended" piping. They look odd but if it is required for a draft then so be it.
4) I have considered an insert, but the more I debate the more I am confused. I just like the look of a stove and understand that radiant heating is easier with a stove rather than an insert.
5) Was thinking of a hearth pad, but since my fireplace is 12 inches above the wood floor, I would need something to literally extend the existing hearth, I believe.

@mass_burner: Thanks for the suggestion. Could you please elaborate on YOUR experience/decision-making about the insert vs. stove debate, especially if our homes are somewhat similar. Thank you!

@mellow: Thank you for the height requirement....I will definitely extend it by 4 or 5 feet.
1) Do you have a suggestion for a ready made pipe product that I could look at?
2) As for the "rear-vent" vs. "top-vent" stove, (pardon my ignorance) is it really that which it described? Why would a rear-vent be easier than a top-vent? Is it just for sizing? I assume a rear-vent means most of the stove will be "outside" of the firebox anyway, right?
3) My budget is $2,200....this happens to be 50% of what I was quoted by three fireplace install companies in my area for them to install an insert and piping.
4) I will look at hearth build suggestions and pics. Thank you. It seems to be a project unto itself.

 

[mass_burner]

@mass_burner: Thanks for the suggestion. Could you please elaborate on YOUR experience/decision-making about the insert vs. stove debate, especially if our homes are somewhat similar. Thank you!

I needed to think of looks most of all, our house is a mid-century modern design, which our tastes are more in line with. Never thought of a free standing stove, wanted a clean flush mount install, with nothing on the hearth or floor. We didn't even want to see hinges. The modern look of the Morso fit all these needs. The box is on the smaller side, but it heats the common area of the house easily. My issue is getting heat back to the farther bedrooms, but that's not the stoves fault.

 

[bholler]

honestly yes you should have 15' of stack but it may work just fine without. if it was me i would put in an insulated flexible liner and see if it works if you have poor draft you can always ad a section or 2 of insulated chimney to the top. this does not look great usually but it works. as far as the hearth extension from what i can see you have an extremely shallow hearth and in that case if you want a free standing stove i would just put a stove board down on the floor in front of the fireplace and put your stove on that. and you need to have 18" of protection in front of the stove not 16"

 

[DAKSY]

honestly yes you should have 15' of stack but it may work just fine without. if it was me i would put in an insulated flexible liner and see if it works if you have poor draft you can always ad a section or 2 of insulated chimney to the top. this does not look great usually but it works. as far as the hearth extension from what i can see you have an extremely shallow hearth and in that case if you want a free standing stove i would just put a stove board down on the floor in front of the fireplace and put your stove on that. and you need to have 18" of protection in front of the stove not 16"

In the US, the minimum hearth protection in front of the stove is 16"... In Canada it's 18" (46cm)...Per NFPA-211

 

[bholler]

sorry you are right dasky i just looked at my copy of nfpa211 and it is 16". i was thinking 18" because we sell and install regency stoves that are Canadian and they call for 18" my mistake

 

[RickBlaine]

I will extend the flue by using one of these:
(broken image removed)

As for stove vs. insert, I appreciate the feedback. I think we will stick with a stove, and ensure that the bulk of it fits within the existing firebox. If it sticks out 6 inches past the existing fireplace- that is OK as I will build a hearth extension of 22" to comply with the 16" rule. I thought about a stove sitting entirely on a hearth in front of the fireplace, but that would take up too much real estate in the living room.

 

[bholler]

yes that is the type of extension I was talking about. but I would try it first without it we work on many stoves with short stacks that work fine. and others we need to add height to when they are well over 15'. you can always add the extension after the fact if you do have a problem with draft. I think if you want the stove to be mainly in the fire box why wouldn't you use an insert? there is very little difference between a stove in a fire box and an insert other than the insert has a double wall so air will circulate around the fire box and circulate heated air into the room. I am just curious what would make you choose a freestanding stove?

 

[RickBlaine]

Thank you for the confirmation on the flue extender. As for the stove vs. insert, again, I am really all over the map and change my mind too many times. I like the look of a stove within a firebox. It just looks, well, nice. Most inserts I have seen have HUGE black surrounds- not attractive for my house- although the Morso 5660 mentioned above looks very nice as it does not have huge surrounds and it DOES have clean, mid-century modern lines.

I did not know about an insert having a double wall. I take it an insert won't have any radiant heat, right?

 

[bholler]

no not as much as a free standing stove the only radiant heat will be off the front but a free sanding stove will be radiating most of its heat into the structure of the fireplace. if it is an internal fireplace that is not bad because it will end up in the house if it is on an external wall allot of it will end up outside.

 

[mass_burner]

Thank you for the confirmation on the flue extender. As for the stove vs. insert, again, I am really all over the map and change my mind too many times. I like the look of a stove within a firebox. It just looks, well, nice. Most inserts I have seen have HUGE black surrounds- not attractive for my house- although the Morso 5660 mentioned above looks very nice as it does not have huge surrounds and it DOES have clean, mid-century modern lines.

I did not know about an insert having a double wall. I take it an insert won't have any radiant heat, right?

But there's also convective heat, which the Morso and other inserts are designed as. Somehow, and I'm no scientists, but even without the fan on air gets circulated evenly through the common area. Once established, the temp is the same at all four corners of the entire space.

 

[lml999]

With the size and shape of your fireplace, you may have some limitations on what inserts will fit. I've been running the Enviro 1200 insert for about 6 years and have been very happy with it. It's at one end of our living room on the main level, and it heats both that level and the three bedrooms up a half flight of stairs at the opposite side of the living room. On cold nights I run the blower to distribute the heat. Conversely, with a small fire going we can sit in the living room comfortably, without the blower. Our house is not particularly tight and we have a couple of large picture windows on the main floor.

I'm working on improving its performance with a blocking plate and some Roxul insulation. That's a spring project.

The Enviros get good comments on this site...you might want to take a look. Here's a link to measurements for the 1200 (and the 1700, which would probably be too big for your needs). Looks like it will fit, but I don't know about any side or rear clearance requirements.

 

[RickBlaine]

lml999: Thank you...I will look at those links now. And you are correct, it is a 1950's fireplace so the usual inserts don't seem to fit.

 

[begreen]

Looks to me like you could install a freestanding 2 cu ft stove in there pretty easily. A True North TN19 would be about $800. Haven't checked the mid-sized Vogelzang or Century yet. If you go this route, I'd get it without the optional side shields. You will need to extend the hearth at floor level by either adding a hearth extension pad, a hearth board or making your own which could be built into the current floor and tiled.

 

[RickBlaine]

@begreen: Thank you! What exactly are side shields used for? Can I disregard because it will be installed in a brick fireplace?

It seems my project will be:

1) Flue liner (solid or flex) install with extension to increase flue length from existing 10-11 feet to a total of 15 feet.
2) Extend the hearth out by XX inches (extension size determined by stove purchased)
3) I did decide to go with a stove rather than an insert. I would like to get the largest reasonable stove I can fit, knowing that it will "peek out" a little outside of the existing fireplace. The stove shall have a blower unit on it. I am still trying to figure out if it is better to have a stove with the flue connection on the top or the rear, for my application. Any thoughts you have would be appreciated.

 

[begreen]

The shields are used for clearance reduction to reduce the radiation of heat to the sides or back. With your setup, this is not an issue.

There are larger stoves, but I like the square firebox on the TN19. The mid-sized Drolets are more rectangular, wider than deep. A 2 cu ft stove should suffice for a 1450 sq ft house. The rest of the house will get some heat, but the majority will be in that 500 sq ft open area. Take a look at the Buck 74 for a 2.6 cu ft stove. It can be installed without the legs right in the fireplace.