Installer Said Outside Air Kit Not Necessary?????

[Czech]

Forgot the link, as usual I clicked too quick! http://www.northweststoves.ca/chimneys-venting/selkirk-direct-temp.html

 

[cac4]

cant use gas pipe on a pellet stove.

a little further down the page, it says "ul listed for pellet and corn stoves".

 

[DiggerJim]

Forgot the link, as usual I clicked too quick! http://www.northweststoves.ca/chimneys-venting/selkirk-direct-temp.html

cant use gas pipe on a pellet stove.

That was my first thought but if you click on the pellet link it takes you to the brochure where they say their VP version is approved by UL for corn & pellet burning appliances.

 

[smoke show]

yep I have a vertical install with that selkirk pipe one hole gets both done.

 

[Ithaca]

Um.. Hi guys. Apologies if this has already been mentioned, but I didn't see it anywhere. I installed an OAK into my new stove through the ash pit in my existing Hearth. I haven't used it yet so don't have much to add here except:

http://chimneysweeponline.com/hooa.htm

This article is what sold me on the OAK. 3" flex btw.

 

[FredJ]

Found what I was looking for. This site has the Z flex 2" pipe kit that is made for the fresh air vent. Cost me $62 with shipping from TX for 25' kit. If anyone is looking for a fresh air kt for the CB1200i Quad and want to run it up the chimney this is the place to get it. Even the place I bought the Quad from said they could not find 2" flex for venting and Quadrafire did not sell it.

Linky poo

You have to call them by phone for the 2" as it is not on their website yet as it is pretty new by Z-Flex. Don't call Z-flex for this as you have to go through one of their dealers.

At 20' long I would also suggest, as Giovanni did, that you up the diameter to 3" or even 4" and use a reducer at the stove. 20' especially if it has bend will have a lot more resistance to pull through that an much shorter run. I wouldnt want you to finally decide on an OAK then have it not supply enough flow. Too large wont hurt anything, too small will starve the flame.

 

[Czech]

Also makes the vent look more wood stove if you use the Selkirk if that matters to you. It is spendy, I installed 4 years ago, no problems since. I think they have upped the stainless thickness too, corn tends to make acids that eat pipes, not sure what you're burning. Pook, as mentioned, look more, or go to Selkirk's page, although I find their homepage tough to navigate. Lastly, the side of my house looks like it has a jet engine sticking out, I like that and get questions too which I like (what is your dryer on steroids?). It has worked well for me, I burn a couple of tons of corn a year (lol, not this year!) and have not had a problem. Really, really lastly, make darn sure if you use this stuff to get your measurements down and consider the fact that you are not getting this stuff apart without a sawzall, been there.

 

[mralias]

Found what I was looking for. This site has the Z flex 2" pipe kit that is made for the fresh air vent. Cost me $62 with shipping from TX for 25' kit. If anyone is looking for a fresh air kt for the CB1200i Quad and want to run it up the chimney this is the place to get it. Even the place I bought the Quad from said they could not find 2" flex for venting and Quadrafire did not sell it.

Linky poo

You have to call them by phone for the 2" as it is not on their website yet as it is pretty new by Z-Flex. Don't call Z-flex for this as you have to go through one of their dealers.

At 20' long I would also suggest, as Giovanni did, that you up the diameter to 3" or even 4" and use a reducer at the stove. 20' especially if it has bend will have a lot more resistance to pull through that an much shorter run. I wouldn't want you to finally decide on an OAK then have it not supply enough flow. Too large wont hurt anything, too small will starve the flame.

Thanks Guys for your suggestions. It really means a lot to me to get all kinds of input and this is a great place to do it. I have already purchased the 2" and is coming from NH according to UPS. Ordered in TX and shipped from NH. Got to love it. I have already burned the stove toward the end of last season and did not have any burn problems without the OAK. I'm sure I was sucking air in from all the leaky parts of the house. I am hoping by going direct outside to the stove that I will cut down on the air sucking from the rest of the house. (air sucking---love them technical terms) The debate seems to be 2" to 3" size pipe based on a 20' vertical run without any drastic bends. The 3" pipe is not made to fit my stove according to Quadrafire as it has a 2" fitting. I have not been able to locate a 3" to 2" reducer as of yet and gave up on that. That leaves me only a 2" pipe.

Bottom line is, if this does not work I can always get the 3" pipe and cut slices and collapse the end so it clamps on the 2" stove fitting. Only $40 bucks which I would have given to the blood sucking oil company's if I did not put this stove in so no big loss. Thanks again.

 

[johnnywarm]

please let us know how it works out. good luck.

 

[MCPO]

The 2" will probably work fine if there are no elbows but if there is a slight restriction it could very well put a bit of a strain on the combustion motor resulting in a shortened life. I would have to believe these motors are unique to the application and are not overly spec`d .The lighter it is built the quieter it would be, undoubtedly manufactured so as to draw as little electricity as possible , thereby not being overly powerful and able to withstand much resistance if any. If you were to put a meter across it you would see the needle rise more than the rated draw listed (with added resistance of course ) .
I can hear the air being sucked into my OAK when I`m standing near it. (4" diameter at 30 ft) run so I consider the OAK to be of more importance than others might.

 

[erhalt1]

i have a question, my stove out side air has to run through the basement, to go outside, would i be just as well to let the hose hang in the basement?

 

[erhalt1]

pellett stove

 

[rona]

Your exhaust is going outside so unless you have a open window in the basement you should pull the air from outside. You can easily put a elbow pointing down so snow or rain can't get in . Don't forget a piece of screen so bugs or mice can't get in the pipe. I ran a elbow outside with a two foot extension to get above snow and a couple of elbows so snow and rain couldn't get in.

 

[johnnywarm]

they make a vent that goes into the wall that opens and closes automatically.it has a screen built into it. i'll see if i can get its name.

 

[rona]

they do make a vent that opens and closes automatically that fits in the wall but with the stove running full time which I assume it will be you will be letting cold air in your basement all the time unless you plumb a pipe into the vent that opens and closes and thereby capturing the cold air and not allowing it the run of the basement. cooling things off.

 

[johnnywarm]

they do make a vent that opens and closes automatically that fits in the wall but with the stove running full time which I assume it will be you will be letting cold air in your basement all the time unless you plumb a pipe into the vent that opens and closes and thereby capturing the cold air and not allowing it the run of the basement. cooling things off.

It open & closes automatically with a" hepa type" filter.

 

[slls]

What about all furnaces and water heaters? All of these require combustion and emit exhaust and they don't require OAKs. Where is all their makeup air coming from? So I guess if you own one of these units you will need to put an OAK on it too!

You should. High-efficiency appliances require or at least offer the ability to use outdoor air.

Sealed combustion is the best way to go.

If you cut the hole for an OAK, the cold air is drawn directly into the stove, meaning that this cold air is constantly cooling off the stove, and you have to "burn more pellets" to heat the stove.

The inefficiency in a stove is not in the combustion, itself. Combustion air that is 20 degrees colder does not mean a flame that is 20 degrees colder. You could put a larger and larger heat exchanger on a given system, and cool the exhaust more (combustion efficiency is the difference between the flame temp and the exhaust temp). However, if you did that, there would be problems of draft and corrosion and soot, because the exhaust was too cool.

The amount of energy the system will waste is fixed by that, regardless of the amount of energy that it consumes in combustion. Colder air means it needs to consume more energy to pre-heat that air, but that extra energy is captured by the system in order to cool the flue gas just enough, but not too much. The energy has to go somewhere - into your house. Colder air (as long as it is not so cold that it interferes with proper combustion) will actually increase efficiency. It sounds counter-intuitive, but the thermodynamics do work out.

If your house is tight enough that it needs additional fresh air, replace a bathroom vent with a HRV, and install a ventilation controller to turn it on as needed.

Joe

Would cold dry air have more oxygen per cubic foot than warm humid air. If so how would that effect combustion.

yes! more oxygen & nitrogen too= denser air. air is mostly nitrogen which dont burn [inert]

Explain why cold air intakes installed on auto engine increase HP.

 

[bdcbean]

In an automobile combustion engine you are using compression to make the power. Compression = heat. If you can lower the temp before this process then you are going to get less heat at the end which means you can get more advanced ignition and more power.

Thats why they have intercoolers on turbo cars, the turbo is adding even more heat when pre compressing the air. In extreme cases you use ice boxes to get negative intake charge temps before it reaches the turbo.

So it's a little different to a pellet fire, but as said above. Cool air (as long as not too cold) will help with efficiency.

Most of our fires are not supplied with cold air intakes, most people have just not had a need for them in New Zealand.

 

[BrownianHeatingTech]

but why is the air preheated in older carbureted engines from heat tube from block to air filter cannister?

Some engines had heaters to prevent the throttle plates from freezing, not to pre-heat the air. Pre-heating the air is bad.

&WHY;DO ALL CARS GET WORSE MILEAGE IN WINTER i think.

I've never had a car that got worse mileage in the winter.

Joe

 

[FredJ]

I've never had a car that got worse mileage in the winter.

Joe

I do, but its because
1) I havent Properly inflated the tires ( I think they get softer with the denser cold air) and
2) because I put on Snows with a much softer rubber and agressive tread (2-3mpg Less than Summer tread)

 

[BrownianHeatingTech]

http://www.cartalk.com/content/columns/Archive/1997/March/01.html

The tire issue does not apply.

Neither does the "warm up" issue, because that is related to the engine management system's operation - it "wastes" fuel to get the engine warmed up quicker, to reduce wear (cold oil does not lubricate as well).

As far as "gasoline doesn't burn as well in cold temperatures," that's flat-out false. Ask anyone who has designed a racecar; you do everything you can to get the air (and even the fuel) cooler, to improve the efficiency of the burn (efficient burn = more power from a given engine).

Properly inflate your tires and burn quality fuel, and there will be no mileage loss. No gain, either, because the "warm up" issue still applies, and counteracts the efficiency gain from the colder air and fuel.

Joe

 

[bdcbean]

Run nitrogen or helium in your tires (thats why race cars do not use air)

As for the fuel temps, I recently installed a control system for my oversized fuel pump. Running at full speed when the engine does not need it meant that the pump + the hot engine bay heat the fuel and just return most of it to the tank. This greatly effects power. Hot fuel = less efficiency.

Race cars have systems where the fuel is ran through a heat exchanger on the low pressure side before returning to the tank for this reason.

 

[BrownianHeatingTech]

In winter, colder air means denser air -- more molecules per cubic foot. At any specific throttle setting or opening, the same number of cubic feet of air, but containing more air molecules, will enter the engine. The computer will provide more fuel to create the proper air/fuel ratio at that moment. This is a bit more subtle, since "more air/more fuel" produces more power, so you may be able to operate at a slightly lower throttle setting -- sort of rebalancing the equation.

More than re-balancing the equation, actually.

as to pellet stove,i'd think that the combustion air intake would be set to feed air for the highes burnrate so that full combustion is assured. burn pellets at a lower rate + add condensed cold air factor & the result is excessive airwash from heat inside stove. kindalike heating the outdoors, eh?

The air intake allows the stove to draw the air that it wants - it doesn't force some set amount of air into the stove.

Joe

 

[slls]

Boy did I open a can of worms LOL.

 

[rona]

Yeah you did but you got opinions from people with wood stoves fireplaces and pellet stoves and car drivers. Answers will vary but a pellet stove basically has one exhaust fan which blows exhaust out of the stove which creates a vacumm that draws fresh air into the flames.
I have never seen a overkill on a subject like this before. Seems we must have all kinds of experts dealing with hot air.