Installing an Jotul F500 Oslo

[Grisu]

In xman23's picture, it doesn't look like his has 36" of clearance either.

True. Maybe the wall is non-combustible but right now I would guess that his install is against the manufacturer's instructions.

Am I screwed on getting that stove then?

You could get it but then you would need to lock the side door and use the front door. Not really a good option with the Oslo. Would it maybe fit straight on the hearth, back parallel to the stairs? Then the side door would be facing the open room but you will need to extend the hearth.

 

[ntomsw]

This is one of the main reasons we didn't upgrade the Castine to the Oslo. Is the left side wall 4" thick brick? Is it a ventilated wall?

Behind that left side wall (where the little "W" is on the mantle), is the staircase going either to the upstairs, or going down the stairs into the garage. Not sure what is behind the brick. But yes, it is 4" thick brick on that wall 51" tall.

 

[ntomsw]

Would it maybe fit straight on the hearth, back parallel to the stairs? Then the side door would be facing the open room but you will need to extend the hearth.

Yeah definitely would not want it, if we couldn't use the side door.


It wouldn't fit there unless hearth was made bigger. Not sure if I would even want it there. It looks better in the room, kitty-cornered.

 

[claydogg84]

Exactly how much heat is really coming out of the side door when opening? It seems a bit ridiculous considering the only time you're opening the door is to reload, which should simply be coals. If it was me, I would install the stove there as long as the door could be fully opened and the correct clearances met (aside from the one in question). I think you should give Jotul a call and ask them directly.

 

[ntomsw]

Exactly how much heat is really coming out of the side door when opening? It seems a bit ridiculous considering the only time you're opening the door is to reload, which should simply be coals. If it was me, I would install the stove there as long as the door could be fully opened and the correct clearances met (aside from the one in question). I think you should give Jotul a call and ask them directly.

That's what I am wondering. I wonder if the stove shop would be willing to come out and give my hearth a "once over" to tell me if I can fit it there.

If I or anyone was leaving the door open all day, I could understand that. But, the door is open for a few seconds to throw some wood into it, and then you close it right back up again.

 

[claydogg84]

That's what I am wondering. I wonder if the stove shop would be willing to come out and give my hearth a "once over" to tell me if I can fit it there.

If I or anyone was leaving the door open all day, I could understand that. But, the door is open for a few seconds to throw some wood into it, and then you close it right back up again.

The manual simply states that it cannot be used in your type of install, but it doesn't state exactly why. That's why I think a call to Jotul is the best idea here.

 

[ntomsw]

The manual simply states that it cannot be used in your type of install, but it doesn't state exactly why. That's why I think a call to Jotul is the best idea here.

Do you have a link to the manual? I'll call Jotul tomorrow.

I have room for the door to clear 18", plus another 10" on top of that before you hit the brick on that left side wall. (so there is 28" from the side of stove right there.) So there is definitely clearance for door to open, and then some. Just not that 36". I am 8" short to reach that 36".

I have my notes from the stove shop yesterday, and all they told me and asked me, was if I had 18" of clearance on the left side. They didn't say anything about needing 36".

So, I am going to have to call Jotul and see what they say.

 

[begreen]

I'm wondering if you could use the NFPA 12.6.2.1 (a) 33% clearance reduction for a full brick wall. That would bring it down to 24" which it sounds like you might have. Seems like that would be kosher. In our case I couldn't do that due to a window on the left side, but your install seems to fit this case.

 

[ntomsw]

I'm wondering if you could use the NFPA 12.6.2.1 (a) 33% clearance reduction for a full brick wall. That would bring it down to 24" which it sounds like you might have. Seems like that would be kosher. In our case I couldn't do that due to a window on the left side, but your install seems to fit this case.

Which is...

No idea what means. haha

 

[Grisu]

To make it short: Tell them that you have 26" from the side of the stove to the sidewall which is covered with one layer of bricks but you don't know what is underneath. Would that layer of bricks be enough wall protection to reduce the side clearances down from 36" that you can use the sideloading option?

As for an explanation: An unlisted (untested) stove requires 36" clearance in all directions. A layer of bricks on the walls around the stove reduces that to 24" inches (= 1/3 of clearance reduction) according to the recommendations as stated in NFPA 211 which most municipalities have adopted as their code for heating appliances. If you want to read it here is an older version: https://woodheatstoves.com/free/NFPA211_old.pdf (Page 211-38 f)
Nevertheless, anything that is in the manual and what Jotul says will trump the NFPA 211 standard. And your local code authority will have the last word.

If Jotul does not agree you may need to look for a front (or top)loading stove. There are other cast iron stoves: Quadrafire Explorer 2, Jotul F45 or F50, Pacific Energy T5, Hearthstone Shelburne to name some.

 

[ntomsw]

I can't seem to find a number for Jotul directly. Anyone have it??

If this stove doesn't work out, which I will be bummed if it doesn't, how does the F400 compare??? Our house is 1,700+ sq ft. I'd rather a stove too big, than too small.

Curious how that one compares to the F500 Oslo.

 

[ccg36]

Right out of the Oslo manual,

"Use of the left side load door is prohibited in alcove or corner installations. Use Side Door Lock Kit # 155850."

 

[claydogg84]

Right out of the Oslo manual,

"Use of the left side load door is prohibited in alcove or corner installations. Use Side Door Lock Kit # 155850."

That's already been mentioned. The question is, why? Alcoves are not all created equal, so this sentence is far too vague.

 

[claydogg84]

I can't seem to find a number for Jotul directly. Anyone have it??

If this stove doesn't work out, which I will be bummed if it doesn't, how does the F400 compare??? Our house is 1,700+ sq ft. I'd rather a stove too big, than too small.

Curious how that one compares to the F500 Oslo.

I came up with this from a quick google search - 207-591-6601. I can't imagine the clearances you have not working for the Oslo, so don't get yourself to worked up until you talk to them.

 

[Grisu]

how does the F400 compare??? Our house is 1,700+ sq ft. I'd rather a stove too big, than too small.

It certainly will be rather too small than too big. The Castine will be challenged to heat 1700 sqft and burn times will be on the short side. Have you looked at the other stoves I mentioned? They are similar in size to the F500. Another really nice one will be the BlazeKing Ashford 30. Due to its thermostat controlled catalytic burn you can turn the air lower to get longer burn times and a much more even heat output over the length of the burn. Quite a few members here who started out with a secondary burn stove (such as the F500) upgraded at some point to a BlazeKing due to those benefits and could not be happier. It will be more pricey, though.

 

[ccg36]

Minimum clearance from Left Side Load Door to combustible surfaces is 36”.

from my conversations before purchasing the Oslo, Jotul defines that as 36" perpendicular to the side, off the back corner.

my guess is if you have the 36" you probably aren't installed in what is considered an alcove.

 

[claydogg84]

Minimum clearance from Left Side Load Door to combustible surfaces is 36”.

from my conversations before purchasing the Oslo, Jotul defines that as 36" perpendicular to the side, off the back corner.

my guess is if you have the 36" you probably aren't installed in what is considered an alcove.

Brick is not a combustible surface. The question is whether the Brick allows the tolerance to be reduced.

 

[begreen]

I came up with this from a quick google search - 207-591-6601. I can't imagine the clearances you have not working for the Oslo, so don't get yourself to worked up until you talk to them.

Agreed, don't get too worked up about this. 3.5" of brick qualifies for a 33% wall shield reduction according to the NFPA. I'd be more concerned if there was just wood on the left side of the stove.

We had the Castine. It could heat our 2000 sq ft old house fairly well until temps went below 20F. Below 20F the burn times suffered because I had to push it harder. Hang in there, the Oslo may work out with the brick wall shield.

 

[ntomsw]

Thanks for all the info. I'll call Jotul today and see what they say. I'm hoping it will all work out.

 

[webby3650]

I would use the side door anyway. The requirements are extreme, clearance is set by default at 36" just to prevent the need for further testing. Just my opinion of course..

 

[Grisu]

I agree that the risk is probably minimal with 26" clearance and a brick wall on the side. I doubt anyone will leave their side loading door open long enough to heat up the wall substantially. Nevertheless, when installing it in that spot you run the risk that you fail an inspection (local code/home insurance) should they take a closer look at the manual. The 36" clearance provision/no side loading in a corner install is in bold right on top of the page where the clearances are shown.

 

[ntomsw]

Had to leave a message for Jotul. They said they have 1 tech working today for the entire North America and Canada. So in guessing it's going to be a while for them to call back.

So in the meantime, I called a local NH Jotul dealer that installs stoves, does chimney work etc.

They said that if I have a 1" airspace (?) behind the brick, then my clearance gets cut in half. (Which I have no idea what's behind brick) He also said, if I use a double wall pipe from stove to thimble, and the rear heat shield that it also gets cut in half I believe he said. He said with a clearance of close to 26" on that side, he doesn't see a reason why that stove can't be used. But, if I bring in a photo of my hearth, and the dimensions they will tell me free of charge if it's possible or not. He went on to say that it's required for 18" out in front, and that some cities and towns won't allow a fire resistant rug or something similar. Some places can be real picky and want a permanent 18" out in front. I don't believe that's required in my town though. All that's ever been there since the house was built was a fire resistant rug.

So I'll wait for Jotul's call back and I'll do the free estimate in store thing to see what they say in person.

 

[rsw49]

<Individual sections of floor protection must be mortared together to prevent sparks from falling through to combustible materials.

This came from the F500 manual. It appears that hearth rugs are not permitted to satisfy the 18 inch protected area in front of the stove.

As far as the 36 inch requirement to the left side of the stove in corner installs it looks like that is a hard rule according to the manual. I am not an expert on this but many times people have posted on here that in the event of a fire for any reason be prepared to explain why the stove is not installed according to manual requirements. The insurance company will look for any reason to deny a claim.

 

[begreen]

The hearth protection in front is inadequate for the present and future stove regardless of how long it has been in existence. It probably hasn't been much of an issue because the VC is top-loaded. Your call but it's not adequate according to the hearth requirements.
I think you are ok with the solid brick wall if there will be 26" from the side opening to the wall. 36" is to the nearest combustible surface. The F500 manual does have a clause allowing clearance reduction using proper NFPA shielding:

Here is the NFPA clearance reduction chart.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/nfpa-wall-clearance-reductions/

When you speak with Jotul ask them if you are ok with a 33% wall shield reduction per NFPA211 12.6.2.1 (a).

 

[ntomsw]

The hearth protection in front is inadequate for the present and future stove regardless of how long it has been in existence. It probably hasn't been much of an issue because the VC is top-loaded. Your call but it's not adequate according to the hearth requirements.
I think you are ok with the solid brick wall if there will be 26" from the side opening to the wall. 36" is to the nearest combustible surface. The F500 manual does have a clause allowing clearance reduction using proper NFPA shielding:
View attachment 161075
Here is the NFPA clearance reduction chart.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/nfpa-wall-clearance-reductions/

When you speak with Jotul ask them if you are ok with a 33% wall shield reduction per NFPA211 12.6.2.1 (a).

When I spoke with the store this afternoon, he said that because I do not know what is behind the brick, that technically it is still considered a combustible surface. These are the problems you run into. You ask 20 people something, and you're going to get 20 different answers. haha

I am not expecting a call back from Jotul anytime this year. I called them back later in the day, and she seemed annoyed, and said, "We don't like these types of calls, and typically we refer you back to a Jotul dealer, and want them to answer these questions directly. It will be some time before you receive a call back. You might want to call your dealer."

So what can I do for hearth protection out in front then in my set up? Regardless of the stove I buy?? Because the dealer I bought that rug from, said that is all I need.

Also, are these clearances we're talking about, only for the left side?? Or do I need PLENTY of clearance all the way around??

The shop I talked to also mentioned that double wall pipe, and a rear heat shield to gain the clearance I need as well. Or, if I even do that, do I still need at least that 26"???