is a cat stove really worth the hassle?

[begreen]

I think I would remove the cat and see how she runs without. These hybrids still have secondary burn before it hits the cat to clean up the rest.

That is not a great solution. Unlike some hybrids, the Manchester does not have a robust secondary assembly prior to the cat. The pre-cat Manchester had a 3 tube secondary rack. The new cat version just has a single secondary at the back of the firebox. This is quite different than a stove like the Regency 2500 where the cat is just cleaning up after a robust secondary tube system.

 

[56night]

I think I would remove the cat and see how she runs without. These hybrids still have secondary burn before it hits the cat to clean up the rest.

No need to remove the cat with the Manchester--just open the bypass mechanism and it basically burns like a non-cat stove. But I would imagine that removing the cats might greatly alter the air flow. I'd love to hear from someone who has tried removing the cats.

 

[begreen]

The best solution is to replace the cats if they are at end of life.

 

[Ashful]

My experience with a post 2020 cat stove has been horrendous, and that's being very polite.

Speaking in generalities, just observing history, it appears that each new change in regulations causes many manufacturers to scramble to roll out half-baked designs. We saw the same thing in the mid-1990's with the first cat stoves, so many of them hit the market before they were really flushed out, and ready for prime time.

 

[BKVP]

Speaking in generalities, just observing history, it appears that each new change in regulations causes many manufacturers to scramble to roll out half-baked designs. We saw the same thing in the mid-1990's with the first cat stoves, so many of them hit the market before they were really flushed out, and ready for prime time.

It was 1984 that saw the greatest influx of catalytic wood stoves hit the market. That is when there were hundreds of manufacturers that tried to meet Oregon's, strict for the time, emissions requirements. We have about 33 manufacturers now. (US & Canadian)

Then EPA had Phase 1 in 1988 and Phase 2 in 1990. A short on ramp to new standards creates a scenario of "new" ideas and consumers become the proving ground. This is not ideal.

Proven catalytic designs took 10+ years and there are some that work quite well. When I see some of the "new" designs, I recall to myself...."someone tried that 25 years ago, didn't work".

BKVP

 

[EatenByLimestone]

How m uch better are the catalysts themselves now vs then? Was the metallurgy mature enough then that they are similar to now, or did they improve as much as the stoves did?

 

[begreen]

Yes, it was similar in the 80s. There were companies that were already offering cats in their stoves in advance of the change. Some were experimenting with hybrids. Some dropped this idea and others refined it. There were successes too. The Dutchwest cats were reliable performers and reasonably priced. The early VC cats, not so good. But it's not just the technology that determined whether they succeeded. A lot to do with how (or whether) the stove was marketed, the distribution and showroom network, how the biz was run, cost of the appliance, visual appeal, customer and dealer support, etc.

 

[BKVP]

How m uch better are the catalysts themselves now vs then? Was the metallurgy mature enough then that they are similar to now, or did they improve as much as the stoves did?

The actual ceramic substrates remain unchanged. The introduction of metal substrates has allowed for quicker cat activity. Washcoats change periodically, suppliers looking for blends that react and bond well when applied. They still have palladium and platinum but the blend and application have changed.

Most significantly, SOME cataltyic wood stoves are designed to restrict upper end temperatures, which repeated exposure will kill a cataltyic combustor.

BKVP

 

[BillBurns]

The only cat by stove is my cats. I have no clue about cats like this....sorry. Im sure someone or a bunch will tell you what you need to know.

 

[Rich L]

When I first started with the Equinox my wood wasn’t dry enough and the stove would take forever to heat up. I was new to wood burning and didnt know the importance of dry wood. I came on this site and other people were complaining about how slow they are to warm up when started cold. When you start a hearthstone cold you need to leave the door open until they really get going. If you don’t and you shut the door they really slow down. They don’t get much air even wide open. Now I know. Dry wood starts like gasoline and leave the door open until it really gets going. Stove gets hot fast. I think whatever stove you have there is a learning curve. I can get 12 hours out of a burn when it’s 35 to 40 degrees. Not when it’s 8 degrees with a 40 mile an hour wind. No way. If I had a cat stove could I?

What extends my heat times of 8 hours with my Mansfield and 14 hours with my H1 is the pipe dampers otherwise the stoves burn too fast.

 

[bholler]

What extends my heat times of 8 hours with my Mansfield and 14 hours with my H1 is the pipe dampers otherwise the stoves burn too fast.

Your draft is probably too high in that case.

 

[30WCF]

This has been a good read. Thank you. I’ve been trying to decide if a cat is right for me.
I’m on my second stove in maybe…10 years? I went from a large tube stove to a small stove with a single row of secondaries. Overall there isn’t a huge difference in my situation between the two. Too hot is too hot whether is a big stove or a small stove. Both stoves on average get/got run with single and double split reloads when I’m home and awake. 98% of the time I’m shooting for 300-350 STT 24/7. To achieve this, I burn one, sometimes two sticks at a time on a 2-3 hr reload. There is the occasional cold spell that I need to push harder, but that’s rare.

Kind of looking at the Ashford 20 for next time. If that will keep me at 350 12-14 hrs, we can stop reloading at 12AMand 4-5AM. If it’s really cold and it can do 450-500 for 8 hrs, that would still get me through the day or night.

I like my stove now, but if I could hold steady at 300-350 and load 1-2x a day. Even if it didn’t get a full day, often I could even actually let it die out about late morning to 1200, and relight around 4:00P for the evening.

I don’t know how it could be any more ideal.

What would an Ashford 20 be STT at peak output on average with an average setup for those cold days?

 

[GrumpyDad]

welp, after two years of owning a Vermont Castings Dauntless, I can say that it has been an interesting ride.

My stove seems a tiny bit more challenging to operate with the cat than not. I had cleaner glass without the cat, and more consistent burns (once I learned the stove last year) BUT, this year was a warmer year. I had to operate the stove a bit lower than I did last year. I also didnt have nearly as many burns, and many more cold starts. With the cat in, I did need to raise the air control one notch more than expected, but then I would need to lower it again as the room would heat up too much.

The difference though was not a big deal, and the entire cat/no cat stove thing for me I wouldnt really care either way to be honest. If I'm lowering emissions and maybe having to clean the flue less, then the little additional expense for having the cat in is probably worth it.

I noticed no difference in burn times. But again warm year and I burned about half the wood than I did last year so hard to judge here entirely.

I think the stove I have is more impacted by the design that allows me to add wood from the top hatch. I can't imagine having to open the doors, ash spilling out everywhere to reload my stove. So is the trade off worth it?

I would like to see more flames though. I really would. It might be enough for me to switch stoves, because as it stands the vermont castings just doesnt perform well in this area. As long as I run it a bit hotter than say medium heat, then it's ok at best (when compared to others stoves that I see operating, like the Jotuls). But anything lower and it just doesnt do well, for me. This has nothing to do with the cat.

Bottom line here, my stove heats the room it's in and helps the adjacent rooms. It's a smaller stove, and is in a 650sq ft area with a cathedral ceiling. If I want an easy mode day with my stove, I only load 2-3 splits at a time.

 

[begreen]

I can assure you that ash does not spill out every time I load our stove. Nor was it an issue with the previous front loading F400. That's more a function of how deep the stove floor is, how frequently the ash is dumped, and the wood being burned,

 

[marty319]

The only cat by stove is my cats. I have no clue about cats like this....sorry. Im sure someone or a bunch will tell you what you need to know.

That's funny 😁

 

[begreen]

Cats can plug the chimney.

 

[stoveliker]

At least someone is warm ;-p

People can also plug a chimney... (I couldn't find a pic with tubes clogging a chimney...)

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Here’s one, lol

 

[BKVP]

As do non cat things...

 

[begreen]

Nice clean chimney. In Merry Olde England they used to send small kids up the flue to clean the chimney.

 

[stoveliker]

Nice clean chimney. In Merry Olde England they used to send small kids up the flue to clean the chimney.

Only with a fireplace, not with a stove (smaller ID flue)...

 

[begreen]

Only with a fireplace, not with a stove (smaller ID flue)...

This was prior to stoves as we know them today.

 

[stoveliker]

Lol, and prior to CPS.

 

[begreen]

Lol, and prior to CPS.

Indeed though recent enough to be photographed.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

No, your honor, I wasn’t sending the child up the flue. Gravity was pulling him down it. In fact, in the name of safety, I was holding onto the rope so he didn’t fall too fast.