Is staying in the "burn zone" necessary?

[Punkydoodle]

Hello. I am new to this forum (and new to using wood stoves). Last spring we changed out an old propane gas insert to a new Napoleon 1402 wood stove insert as it was incredibly expensive to run the gas stove and we live in the woods with an abundance of wood. So far I am loving it but I do have a question. We have a Rutland thermometer that is placed on top of the stove surface. When I get my fire going in the mornings and evenings after work, I load the box fairly full to get a hot fire going. I leave the door cracked and the air open fully until it is roaring and the thermometer shows I'm about center in the "burn zone" (400*). This typically takes about a half an hour. Once it hits 400 degrees (or near there), I close the door and close off the air nearly completely to get a slow lazy burn. Throughout the day when I'm home I add 1 or 2 logs at a time to keep the fire going but what I run into is it seems difficult to maintain the thermometer in the burn zone all day long and it often falls into the "creosote zone". I could add more wood to bring the temp back up but I think it would make the house too hot (and go through too much wood). My question is: is it okay to let the thermometer fall into the creosote zone after a hot burn? Is it necessary to stay in the burn zone once the fire has been established?

 

[Huntindog1]

Yes its ok as once the firewood gets to be more like coals it has exhausted alot of its creosote forming gas and is less of an issue later in the burn
cycle. The secondary air is still coming in and as long as the wood had gases to offgas it would have burnt them for you. Sounds fromm your desription your right on with what your doing. Just make sure you dont kill all your flames in the startup when you lower the input air. As in lowering it too much and your flames go out on you. That will usually fog up your glass. But poorly season wood will also fog up your glass. You will get the feel of it but you already sound like your doing pretty good anyways.

 

[mellow]

The way you are burning is like we did in the old pre-epa stoves, throw in a log every once in awhile. With these newer stoves you want to burn in a cycle.

• Load it up
• Get the fire up to temp and slowly decrease the primary air
• Let it burn through the entire cycle to coals
• Reload on hot coals
• Wait for fire get to up to temp and slowly decrease primary air
• Repeat

 

[Punkydoodle]

Thanks for your replies. It makes me feel better knowing it's okay to fall into the creosote zone after an established fire. I didn't know that about the foggy glass so I will definitely watch for that. My wood is pretty well seasoned so I will assume I'm closing off the air too quickly if my glass starts to fog up. Mellow, I will try your method and see how it goes. I'm assuming the fire will last longer between loads when the box is full (hopefully)? As it is, I'm reloading every 1-2 hours with 1-2 pieces of wood. Just curious, but what would you say is the average amount of time between using full loads vs one or two logs at a time? I would love to go at least 3-4 hours between loads but that might be unreasonable.

 

[tcassavaugh]

there is a difference in the "foggy" if its grey and you can see through it, its probably just ash and a residual of good burning practice. if its black and you can't see through it, its probably a result of burning too low or not hot enough or your wood is not seasoned enough. just something to keep watch of.

 

[mellow]

The 1402 has a decent sized firebox, if you fill it up and burn it low with good seasoned hardwood you should be able to get 4-6 hours of good heat from it.

 

[Punkydoodle]

That would be wonderful. Thanks for the tip...I'm going to test it out today since I'm home.

 

[jscs.moore]

The way you are burning is like we did in the old pre-epa stoves, throw in a log every once in awhile. With these newer stoves you want to burn in a cycle.

• Load it up
• Get the fire up to temp and slowly decrease the primary air
• Let it burn through the entire cycle to coals
• Reload on hot coals
• Wait for fire get to up to temp and slowly decrease primary air
• Repeat

Hey Mellow...so now that I'm into my first season of burning my insert (Hampton HI300) I do wonder about the 5/6 hour burn cycles. First I'll concede I am definitely still learning my insert and as you know need to get a block off plate and insulation. However, is it really possible to heat an entire house efficiently with a 5/6 hour burn cycle that you detail above? For instance, if the MOST heat that is kicking out of the insert is when you are at cruising temps (400 to 600) and it critical to keep the insert at those temps for effective heating...how can you really do that by letting the fire go down to the coaling phase before loading up again? I am trying full burn cycles now but it's a challenge since the firebox temps will fall off fairly quickly when I start to get to coaling phase of the burn. Fortunately, I don't have to rely on 24/7 wood heating and allow the heat pump to kick in when the inside temp of the house drops to 66 or 67? But my question is...does your whole house stay toasty warm during most of the 5/6 hour burn cycle so your not constantly fighting to get the entire house back up to temp once your at the end of the burn cycle?? It is very frigid where I am right now (low 20's) and it would be in big trouble right now if I was relying solely on wood heat and allowing the insert to go thru a bull burn cycle before reloading and getting back up to cruising temps?? Like I said...I am a newbie to wood burning and I still need to get a block off /plate and insulation, but right now I wondering how people can effectively heat their whole house 24/7 on wood heat alone using full burn cycles?

 

[bholler]

However, is it really possible to heat an entire house efficiently with a 5/6 hour burn cycle that you detail above?

That depends on the stove and the house. If they are matched right the answer is yes medium sized stoves can go 5/6 hours. And most larger units can easily go 8 hours between loads. that is how i use mine. But if the stove is to small for the house yes the temperature in you house will begin to drop to low when the heat out put of the stove drops.

 

[baysideburner]

Hey Mellow...so now that I'm into my first season of burning my insert (Hampton HI300) I do wonder about the 5/6 hour burn cycles. First I'll concede I am definitely still learning my insert and as you know need to get a block off plate and insulation. However, is it really possible to heat an entire house efficiently with a 5/6 hour burn cycle that you detail above? For instance, if the MOST heat that is kicking out of the insert is when you are at cruising temps (400 to 600) and it critical to keep the insert at those temps for effective heating...how can you really do that by letting the fire go down to the coaling phase before loading up again? I am trying full burn cycles now but it's a challenge since the firebox temps will fall off fairly quickly when I start to get to coaling phase of the burn. Fortunately, I don't have to rely on 24/7 wood heating and allow the heat pump to kick in when the inside temp of the house drops to 66 or 67? But my question is...does your whole house stay toasty warm during most of the 5/6 hour burn cycle so your not constantly fighting to get the entire house back up to temp once your at the end of the burn cycle?? It is very frigid where I am right now (low 20's) and it would be in big trouble right now if I was relying solely on wood heat and allowing the insert to go thru a bull burn cycle before reloading and getting back up to cruising temps?? Like I said...I am a newbie to wood burning and I still need to get a block off /plate and insulation, but right now I wondering how people can effectively heat their whole house 24/7 on wood heat alone using full burn cycles?

I have been running my Hampton for three years and each year I get more heat out of it with better wood and better burning techniques. I have a cape and its usually upper seventies on main floor and mid sixties up stairs in the bedrooms. It is actually perfect temps for sleeping. Try not to have too many coals and or wood in it at 5pm. This will give u one decent load until 10pm then cram it and go to sleep whrn its rolling .yes temps will fall overnight but in morning start with nice load and repeat all day like that. They key is to not load it too much during day so u have a big build-up of coals. Anyway if the house is getting too colddduring coaling stage your stove is too small or house is too drafty

 

[Punkydoodle]

Okay...its been one hour since I loaded my insert full of splits on top of hot coals. I slowly turned the air down and had it completely closed off in about 15 minutes as the temp was approaching 500 plus degrees. Had a good lazy burn going but now it's just red hot coals with little flame. Temp has remained at 500 degrees so I see no need to add more wood. Checked the smoke outside and there is very little if any. Will continue with an update in a few hours...

 

[baysideburner]

I will almost never turn my air down all the way..what I find happens is temps get hot but with just alittle more air not only will they get alittle hotter but at the end of thr burn you get more complete combustion and fewer coals because the temps were higher. But do what u like lol

 

[bholler]

I will almost never turn my air down all the way..what I find happens is temps get hot but with just alittle more air not only will they get alittle hotter but at the end of thr burn you get more complete combustion and fewer coals because the temps were higher. But do what u like lol

Each setup will be different some people will shut it all the way others will not and some even when they shut it all the way will still have to much draft. Every chimney and house is different so no one will run their stove exactly the same.

 

[jscs.moore]

I have been running my Hampton for three years and each year I get more heat out of it with better wood and better burning techniques. I have a cape and its usually upper seventies on main floor and mid sixties up stairs in the bedrooms. It is actually perfect temps for sleeping. Try not to have too many coals and or wood in it at 5pm. This will give u one decent load until 10pm then cram it and go to sleep whrn its rolling .yes temps will fall overnight but in morning start with nice load and repeat all day like that. They key is to not load it too much during day so u have a big build-up of coals. Anyway if the house is getting too colddduring coaling stage your stove is too small or house is too drafty

Yeah...everyone on this site who owns the HI300 says it kicks out some serious heat and I have noticed that as well! When I get it up to 500 degrees the whole downstairs will stay around 74 and the upstairs around 70. Problem is I can't seem to keep it in the optimum burn zone of 450 to 500 for more than about 60 to 90 minutes before the firebox temps start falling off. I know some of this is my poor burning technique because I struggle with too many coals after a few burns and not being able to fill the fire box full on reloads because of that? I'm a frustrated first year burner I guess But like I said, it's a good thing I don't have to rely on wood burning alone right now or I'd be in trouble

 

[mellow]

Coaling issue can be from wood that is not seasoned enough to burn down to ash.

 

[baysideburner]

Each setup will be different some people will shut it all the way others will not and some even when they shut it all the way will still have to much draft. Every chimney and house is different so no one will run their stove exactly the same.

True but he said when he shut It all the way flames were snuffed and only red coals

 

[mellow]

Depending on the stove even with the primary air "closed" it will still let air in, also have air coming in via the secondary air tubes.

 

[bholler]

True but he said when he shut It all the way flames were snuffed and only red coals

As long as the temperature is still good and there is no smoke that is just fine

 

[baysideburner]

[Qupset that "bholler, post: 2042488, member: 32126"]As long as the temperature is still good and there is no smoke that is just fine[/QUOTE]
Wouldnt that be true for a cat stove not necessarily for a regular stove. If its early in the burn you either have secondarily or u have smoke almost no way around it

 

[baysideburner]

Secondaries

 

[bholler]

Wouldnt that be true for a cat stove not necessarily for a regular stove. If its early in the burn you either have secondarily or u have smoke almost no way around it

Yes but they said they had little to no smoke. If that is true and the temp is up where it should be there is no problem. I have a regency and there are times mine goes to coals pretty early but the stove top and stack temps are fine and there is no smoke. But i do agree generally going to coals with no secondarys in the first hour or so is not good for a non cat.

 

[Nick Mystic]

Punkydoodle,
You shouldn't need to keep your stove door open for 30 minutes during your start up process and letting the stove reach 400F. That's a bad habit to get into because bad things can happen when a stove's door is left open and you get distracted and forget about it being open. Once you have active flames in the firebox most stoves will continue burning with the door shut and the primary air left wide open. Have you tried closing the door sooner? On both of my stoves I can shut the door before I am even reading a temperature on my thermometer and the fire will continue to thrive. If I close the door too soon and the fire dies out I just crack it again for another few minutes and then try closing the door again. Your flames will almost always die back when you shut the door, but then they should slowly start to recover as the fire adjusts to the diminished amount of air.

 

[Punkydoodle]

After 2 1/2 hours I'm down to just red hot coals...no flame at all. Temp has dropped to 400* on top surface thermometer but indoor temp is hovering at 74* so still very toasty. It's about 45 degrees outside. I did open the air just a smidge to try and keep the coals hot and maybe induce a little flame to come back but I think it's too late for that. Is it okay to leave it in this red coal stage a couple more hours as long as I'm happy with the room temperature? For some reason I have it embedded in my brain that a flame should always be present but I'm not sure where I picked that up.

 

[Punkydoodle]

Nick Mystic,
Yeah...I think I could shut the door earlier than I do and get the same results as long as the air is fully open. I usually only leave the door slightly open when starting from a cold (or nearly cold) box and I sit beside it during the whole time it heats up. I agree it would be a better option and I will give it a try and see how it goes.

 

[Squisher]

You can leave it as long as you want. Ideally if I'm around I open the air up more in the later stages of the burn to stoke the coals. Worse thing that'll happen if you leave it to long is it'll go out.