Jotul: weird

[NCDiesel]

I have a Jotel series 3 CB. It’s a small, parlor type stove. I enjoyed it for a number of years until about three years ago it started smoking on load up and at initial fire up. I called my chimney guy (who is accredited and professional and knows his business really well) and he couldn’t make heads or tails of it since it worked fine for 17 years. Checked the chimney, checked the stove, nothing. The only thing he could come up with was there a change in insulation in the home a year earlier and felt like maybe there was possibly negative pressure in the house. Opening a window didn’t really help so we both didn’t really hang our hat on that theory.

My wife was wanting to redecorate that particular room anyways and so the woodstove got relegated to my shop. My shop is a detached garage with a straight chimney going straight through the roof. My chimney guy installed it. Previously a Seiglar oil stove was on the chimney and the stove heated beautifully. But the carburetor became so finicky I got rid of it. So I put the Jotul on that chimmney. Figure there would be no problem because the oil stove had no problems. I was wrong: the stove was behaving the same exact way. smoke on load up and smoke on initial fire up. I’m talking like bad.

I must say if I open all the doors and windows and air out the smoke and tolerate it until the stove is good and hot it’ll finally draft fine.

Now I’m beginning to suspect the stove. I knew nothing about stove design and construction but just simply inspecting it as closely as I could I couldn’t find anything unusual or wrong.

Has anyone else experienced anything like this? It’s hard to believe the two different chimneys, both of which never had problems, would fail to draft.

Thanks in advance,

 

[Todd]

Check inside the fire box for any warpage, could be messing with air flow.

 

[NCDiesel]

Just had a chance to take a look at the stove and there’s nothing obstructing the flow of air. Nothing seems warped or out of place. This is a fairly simple pre-catalytic woodstove. It does have a plate which I understand helps to burn exhaust gas. But nothing about that plate or outlet seems “wrong”.

 

[EbS-P]

How tall is the flue? Have you pulled the top off and baffle out?

 

[NCDiesel]

I have not tried to disassemble anything.

As for flue, stove is rear exit, immediately does a 90 degree and perfectly straight after that. It has about 6 1/2 feet to where it reaches a thimble in the ceiling. This thimble leads to double wall stove pipe through attic space. Double wall extends about 3’ through attic space (it’s near an eve) and then extends about 6-7’ above the roof deck.

Again this flu drafted fine for an oil stove previously.

 

[NCDiesel]

EbSP’s post got me curious. So I pulled the top plate off. Besides needing a little bit of vacuuming everything looked normal. So I did a little draft test. I placed a small piece of paper towel with a few drops of oil on it(so it would smoke a bit) on top of the baffle near the flue exit. The chimney drafts absolutely fine. Here is a link to the videos since it’s too large to attach here:

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All the smoke goes up the chimney and you can see a strong pull against the flames up the flu.

But if I build a fire in the firebox smoke will build up and smoke will start coming out of the damper and smoke up the room.

So weird.

 

[Todd]

That is weird. Where does the primary air come into the stove? Maybe blow some compressed air into it and see if there’s some blockage? Also wonder if there is an unregulated primary boost air in the lower firebox that could be blocked with ash?

 

[EbS-P]

Try a top down fire lots of kindling. Get the flue hot in a hurry. While the draft may be drafting it just might not be enough. I don’t open the door until I need to reload and by that point there is no smoke.

 

[begreen]

How does the stove respond now to the air control? Same as new or not so well? How do you normally start the fire? Do you use the start-up air on the stove door?

With the lid off, did you notice any sooty areas? They could indicate air leakage due to the top gasket not sealing well. At 17 yrs old, the stove is due for a gasket update if this has not been done before.

If nothing is solved, I would pull the rear heat shield and see if something has made a nest in the secondary air intake hole. Vacuum it out. If still nothing, I'd switch it to top venting.

 

[NCDiesel]

That is weird. Where does the primary air come into the stove? Maybe blow some compressed air into it and see if there’s some blockage? Also wonder if there is an unregulated primary boost air in the lower firebox that could be blocked with ash?

Primary air is from a damper in this model. I know it is clear because smoke comes out of it at fire up. Smoke out = air can get in. The primary boost in this model is a small gate/slide valve in the front. It’s my understanding the ash box is sealed. In fact, if you accidentally don’t close it it right it will become a blast furnace 😂

 

[NCDiesel]

Try a top down fire lots of kindling. Get the flue hot in a hurry. While the draft may be drafting it just might not be enough. I don’t open the door until I need to reload and by that point there is no smoke.

Top down? Like bigger wood on the bottom, medium wood nestled in and then kindling and tinder in the top? Sorry, just not familiar with that term.

I also don’t open the door for any reason ‘till I reload but the problem is the smoke rolls out of the sliding damper at the top.

 

[EbS-P]

Top down? Like bigger wood on the bottom, medium wood nestled in and then kindling and tinder in the top? Sorry, just not familiar with that term.

I also don’t open the door for any reason ‘till I reload but the problem is the smoke rolls out of the sliding damper at the top.

Exactly the smaller stuff catches fast and heats the flue and then by the time the bigger stuff lights there is a good draft.

I recall another thread from an NC owner that had similar issues with a 3cb. You might search for that. There is a gasket up there near the sliding part if I recall. That might be worth looking into.

 

[NCDiesel]

How does the stove respond now to the air control? Same as new or not so well? How do you normally start the fire? Do you use the start-up air on the stove door?

With the lid off, did you notice any sooty areas? They could indicate air leakage due to the top gasket not sealing well. At 17 yrs old, the stove is due for a gasket update if this has not been done before.

If nothing is solved, I would pull the rear heat shield and see if something has made a nest in the secondary air intake hole. Vacuum it out. If still nothing, I'd switch it to top venting.

I use the start-up “boost” intake on the front at initial firing. Now that you mention it, I may possibly not have the air control that I used to have. I hadn’t really thought about that until you mentioned it. The difference is subtle but may be present.

With the lid off I didn’t notice anything unusual. A layer of ash on the baffle plate and some ash in the corners. There was a bit of soot on top of the damper control but I sort of kind of expect that because it is definitely out of the way of the hot exhaust. Took a total of 3 minutes to vacuum and de-soot the the top plate and baffle plate and damper so def not a lot.

I’m beginning to think that the primary air intake through the tamper and the boost air intake for fire up may be sooted up. While taking all that apart I’ll look at that rear heat shield. I was unaware that there is some sort of air intake there.

Thanks for all the suggestions and thoughts.

 

[D. Hermit]

There is a gasket behind the baffle where it meets the back wall. It curves up and over where the primary air comes in from behind the stove. If that gasket it worn out and falling out, it will mess up the draft of the stove. Worth looking into.

Same with just popping the rear heatshield off and making sure that primary air hole is unobstructed.

These 2 piece baffles themselves are not gasketed together either, they are cemented together. So the baffle its self may be due for a rebuild also, which is fairly simple.

Last thing is is the gasket on the top, if you had a lot of real hot fires you may have loosened the bolts for the top plate and its not clinched down enough.

 

[NCDiesel]

Sorry for dropping off the radar, but we’ve had such warm weather I’ve needed to concentrate on other chores like getting up all these leaves

I pulled the top again and the gasket around the intake that leads to the baffle seems to be in good shape. I put a little WD-40 on the bolts so I can pull the baffle off tomorrow and see if there’s anything obstructing the intake. Reaching up from the bottom of the intake with a small, specially formed rod there doesn’t seem to be any obstruction in the lower part of the rear intake. I include a picture of the Gasket at the baffle/air intake junction.

 

[begreen]

Make sure that the top lid gasket is not leaking and that the top is centered on the gasket and flat level when looked at from the sides of the stove.

 

[NCDiesel]

Make sure that the top lid gasket is not leaking and that the top is centered on the gasket and flat level when looked at from the sides of the stove.

The top has a lip so it’s sort of tough to tell if there are no gaps but it certainly seems to be sitting perfectly straight and flat. No rocking or movement at all after you set it back on top of the stove but before you put the set screws back in.

The Gasket actually looks to be in good shape. It seems a little compressed but the set screw holes still line up perfectly. If the Gasket was truly just distressed and flattened you would think the set screw holes wouldn’t quite lineup anymore. That’s just an inference on my part tho.

 

[D. Hermit]

The top has a lip so it’s sort of tough to tell if there are no gaps but it certainly seems to be sitting perfectly straight and flat. No rocking or movement at all after you set it back on top of the stove but before you put the set screws back in.

The Gasket actually looks to be in good shape. It seems a little compressed but the set screw holes still line up perfectly. If the Gasket was truly just distressed and flattened you would think the set screw holes wouldn’t quite lineup anymore. That’s just an inference on my part tho.

Yes the screws would line up still. You are checking for compression, if the gaskets are really hard with no give, then its time for new gaskets. When you put the set screws in, you should see and feel the top cinch down as the set screw goes in.

 

[NCDiesel]

I apologize for the delay. After I tore down the stove and really only saw a few pieces of stove cement blocking a small part of the rear intake, I just couldn’t find anything else. I was so disappointed I actually was already starting to shop for used stoves. But I put it back together just for the fun of it and fired it up before I pulled the trigger on a new stove.

Works like a charm! I have no idea what I did - none whatsoever. The pieces of stove cement were possibly blocking maybe up to 25% of the rear airflow but that’s probably being generous. It was probably even less than that. I have a hard time believing that was it.

With his arctic blast coming in I am so glad to have a stove that’s working! Thank you again all of you for your help and I hope you have a wonderful holiday season.

Picture of a fire that I was able to start without smoking up my shop.