Just bought a cord of not actually seasoned wood...

[Wildflush]

Left is same sun as right for me..(left even slightly more sun because of some shade.onnthe right in shoulder season).

Top (some shading by 2 ft roof overhang) and bottom look the same. More or less. The very bottom row can sometimes be a bit grayish, but not nearly as.much as the right bay that had seen rain in its tarped stacks.

Folks that leave it uncovered will likely be gray like my right hand side.

If you can prevent rain on the cut ends, things will dry faster (a system like peakbaggers might work for that). Water can't get out of wood when the surface is wet.

But maybe it's not worth the increase in drying speed. I didn't take numbers. (E.g. 6 weeks earlier is not worth the hassle)

For me i just like the not having to check tarps. But it cost me.(wood is free here tho, and it had double purpose in keeping me sane during COVID lockdown when I was working at home, teaching kids, and trying to keep my wife on her feet working in a nursing home..., and now for just not having to check if tarps have to be replaced, repositioned, or otherwise secured).

I was under the impression even if the end of a split gets wet it dries real fast since it is just surface moisture. Not sure why folks have trouble with tarps. I use high quality ones that I fold multiple times. They have not ripped or blown off with my system. I just want to prevent water, snow and leaves infiltrating the top of the stack while maximizing sun and airflow. My ends are also open. My feeling is if I start making large investments such as wood sheds and wood processing equipment my wood burning will become more of a hobby than an efficient way of lowering my energy cost while providing off grid security. My wife thinks I have ocd as it is with my wood piles! I 100% agree with you that your shed helped keep you sane during COVID. My wife works as a healthcare professional and quarantined more than once. Also lost a family member to COVID so I get it.

 

[stoveliker]

The wood will still release water from the (not wet) split ends, but the fact remains that (nerd alert) the (gradient in) chemical potential of water in wood when ends are wet will prevent the water from traveling to those ends to evaporate.

The shed was cost here. The wood is free. The equipment is a sledgehammer ($10 used, craigslist), a fiskars x27, and a fiskars maul ($less than $150 total), wheelbarrow (already owned), a few wedges ($45 total?), and a $100 electric chainsaw (cutting thru 2 ft oak or locust...). So $300 + shed, here. One time investment, as the wood is free. I believe I'm already break even with oil savings.

The wife had more than half her patients pass away. She left that job for that reason. Some level of PTSD. Purely hospital now. (Rehab dept.)

That's why I am a physicist. Work with dead things... I'm not strong enough (ok, and suffer from some light level of being "on the spectrum") to do what she does...

 

[mpaul]

But how much sun is hitting your wood under your deck? I also keep just over a 1/3 under my deck emergency wood with no sun and my splits are not grey.

The wood I have stored under my deck does not get any sun exposure.
So even without sun the wood that gets wet turns gray, the wood that stays completely dry does not.

 

[Ashful]

@stoveliker, you and I must represent nearly the two extremes of what can be spent on wood processing equipment. I don't think I could buy the nails and TimberLoks in one of my sheds for $300! I have more than $2k in my splitter, and more than $40k in my "wheelbarrow".

The good thing about most wood processing equipment, especially tractors, is that you get back out of them what you put into them. You need to ignore the cost of inflation along the way, but dollars for dollars, they usually net zero.

 

[Wildflush]

The wood will still release water from the (not wet) split ends, but the fact remains that (nerd alert) the chemical potential of water in wood when ends are wet will prevent the water from traveling to those ends to evaporate.

The shed was cost here. The wood is free. The equipment is a sledgehammer ($10 used, craigslist), a fiskars x27, and a fiskars maul ($less than $150 total), wheelbarrow (already owned), a few wedges ($45 total?), and a $100 electric chainsaw (cutting thru 2 ft oak or locust...). So $300 + shed, here. One time investment, as the wood is free. I believe I'm already break even with oil savings.

The wife had more than half her patients pass away. She left that job for that reason. Some level of PTSD. Purely hospital now. (Rehab dept.)

That's why I am a physicist. Work with dead things... I'm not strong enough (ok, and suffer from some light level of being "on the spectrum") to do what she does...

Agree but when the sun and air dries the end the next day the end of split is dry again pulling moisture from the spilt again. When wood is properly seasoned some moisture on the end will not affect the MC so I can’t burn it. It’s not like a piece of 16% ash is going to 23 again if one end of a split gets wet. Moisture is not going to be sucked into the middle of the split again. I had a few pieces that got damp in March (my fault) brought in by the stove and after a few days dry to the bone.

I also have a maul, wheelbarrow (also used for my garden), electric chainsaw, kindling cracker XL, drilling hammer, wedges.

Yup my wife had colleagues with PTSD. Could never do what she does. I’m the boring one.

 

[Wildflush]

@stoveliker, you and I must represent nearly the two extremes of what can be spent on wood processing equipment. I don't think I could buy the nails and TimberLoks in one of my sheds for $300! I have more than $2k in my splitter, and more than $40k in my "wheelbarrow".

The good thing about most wood processing equipment, especially tractors, is that you get back out of them what you put into them. You need to ignore the cost of inflation along the way, but dollars for dollars, they usually net zero.

I have a question about that. If so spend $50k on a tractor you expect to recoup that investment in 20 years? My daughter goes to an agricultural school and wants me to buy a tractor 😂

 

[stoveliker]

Agree but when the sun and air dries the end the next day the end of split is dry again pulling moisture from the spilt again. When wood is properly seasoned some moisture on the end will not affect the MC so I can’t burn it. It’s not like a piece of 16% ash is going to 23 again if one end of a split gets wet. Moisture is not going to be sucked into the middle of the split again. I had a few pieces that got damp in March (my fault) brought in by the stove and after a few days dry to the bone.

I also have a maul, wheelbarrow (also used for my garden), electric chainsaw, kindling cracker XL, drilling hammer, wedges.

Yup my wife had colleagues with PTSD. Could never do what she does. I’m the boring one.

You are right about the wood/wet. My only point is that it takes drying time away when it's wet. How much/numbers? I don't know.

Happy to be boring

 

[stoveliker]

@stoveliker, you and I must represent nearly the two extremes of what can be spent on wood processing equipment. I don't think I could buy the nails and TimberLoks in one of my sheds for $300! I have more than $2k in my splitter, and more than $40k in my "wheelbarrow".

The good thing about most wood processing equipment, especially tractors, is that you get back out of them what you put into them. You need to ignore the cost of inflation along the way, but dollars for dollars, they usually net zero.

I forgot to mention my muscles that have now become sooo valuable after splitting a nice amount ;-)

I don't burn as much as you, I like the exercise, the outside (without ICE noise and smell. My way is not always possible. For me it is, and it is the best for me as long as my body can do it.

My shed was $2200 or so, if I remember correctly. Hurricane ties add up ... Lumber was a lot of free joists from a deck removal (craigslist) that I reused as floor boards in my shed.

Oh. And 3/4 of a gallon of stain...

 

[Ashful]

I have a question about that. If so spend $50k on a tractor you expect to recoup that investment in 20 years? My daughter goes to an agricultural school and wants me to buy a tractor 😂

I've sold every tractor I've ever purchased for almost exactly what I paid for it. That said, I'm not buying new tractors and expecting to sell them at equal money 3 years down the road, there's always a big up-front hit in value when you "drive it off the lot".

But over the course of 20+ years, yes. A low-hours machine (i.e. homeowner use) kept indoors, clean and in good condition, seems to fetch about the same amount as it had 20 years prior, thanks in part to devaluation of the dollar over that time.

I've also sold several machines for more than new, but the time scale was longer. My grandfather's Bolens, a friend's Cub Cadet, and even my grandfather's old Wheelhorse, I think all went for more than their new list price. Each were near 50 years old, though.

Someone who had more time to research old list pricing and used market prices could pretty easily graph up the trends and predict a typical crossing point. I'd guess it must be somewhere near 25 years from new. There's going to be a big initial drop, but then the devaluation curve starts to flatten out. The dollar/inflation is more constant, so at some point they cross.

 

[blades]

first off used tractor market is highly inflated mostly driven by the epa mandates on emissions required on new units. compact and subcompact units were high priced even before any of the emission stuff. over all not much diffrent than the used car/truck market. with the pickup truck pricing being total insane. chain saw market used really hasn't changed much over the past 20 years. the same units that commanded megga bucks still do but those are gennerally not your average home owner / wood burner types ( 70cc on up) , 40-60 cc are adequate for most. Like anything else some are more expensive just because of the brand name. as to splitting personal choice but some times dictated by physical condition. Being over 72 parts of me just ain't what they used to be 30 years ago, heck even 15 years ago, so I have a hydro splitter ( rentals are an option just to get er done in a reasonable amount of time )Course getting a rental when free time is available gennerally requires advanced planning. I process apx 10 cord a year from raw logs/stumps, aquired from tree services and other scrounging sessions. 4-5' dia, stumps are not unusual and logs can be from 5" dia to 30 " dia sometimes close to 20 ft long. I have 8 saws from a little 30cc to 120cc. primarily use the the 2 65cc and 2 80cc units the most -different bar lengths, but I am not typical and I do not sell firewood.

 

[blades]

Stacking and drying firewood, I mostly cross stacked on pallets( that lets a lot air through and pretty much and any junk just falls through to bottom) anything to be used in the next two years, top cover with tarps ( they are challenging to keep in place by me) . That's apx 10 cords. I have mutiple stacks that are just stacked conventioally and get moved to the cross stacked stuff as they age out. Slowly getting back to 5 years worth split all told. got laid up a couple times so I am a bit behind. hence the reason one wants to be at least 3 years ahead.
Tried a shelter logic set up last year- was destroyed by storms in two months- so this year, If I get my tail in gear, I will make a hard sided unit- semi portable- Then I do not get taxed on it. This wood be for the coming season's supply. Located where it wood take minimal snow excavation to access it. My place is wide open so drifting becomes a problem even with the minimal snow we had this year.

 

[Ashful]

I just re-read my original post, and realized I left out a critical detail, when I said "A low-hours machine (i.e. homeowner use) kept indoors, clean and in good condition, seems to fetch about the same amount as it had 20 years prior, thanks in part to devaluation of the dollar over that time." This experience of mine comes from both older homeowner machines (original IH Cub Cadet, Wheel Horse, Bolens), and newer commercial-grade machines (mostly Deere), and probably doesn't carry over to cheaper stuff bought in big-box stores or to any off-brands.

The meaning of "off brand" can be debated, but I'd argue it's anything other than Deere and Kubota in CUT's, as none of the other brands sold new today have shown even remotely similar resale value.

 

[stoveliker]

I forgot to mention my muscles that have now become sooo valuable after splitting a nice amount ;-)

I don't burn as much as you, I like the exercise, the outside (without ICE noise and smell. My way is not always possible. For me it is, and it is the best for me as long as my body can do it.

My shed was $2200 or so, if I remember correctly. Hurricane ties add up ... Lumber was a lot of free joists from a deck removal (craigslist) that I reused as floor boards in my shed.

Oh. And 3/4 of a gallon of stain...

Ah, and a can't hook and a pickaroon. Forgot what they cost as it was not significant to remember..

 

[dafattkidd]

In this day and age not sure how one can build a 6 cord shed cheaply. You also should have the right spot with wind direction and sun. I have 4 cord now 5th coming. All top covered. My tarp method works well for me.

I was thinking the same thing. I'm a contractor. I estimate material costs all the time when I see the huge beautiful wood sheds posted on here. Many of them are $2,000 and up. However, if you have a ton of property and can build an utilitarian shed that no one can see, that can be built for significantly less. Most of us do not have this luxury. So the wood sheds and stacks need to be tolerable to the eyeballs.

 

[stoveliker]

Cheaply is in the eye of the payer...
Cheap for one might be expensive for another.

I concur with the $2k; mine was slightly over that (with part reclaimed lumber).

 

[Ashful]

I concur with the $2k; mine was slightly over that (with part reclaimed lumber).

I guess I wasn't following your logic in post #52, when it looked like you were saying your shed was $300. I'll admit I was scratching my head on that one, it was the instigation for my post #54.

 

[stoveliker]

I guess I wasn't following your logic in post #52, when it looked like you were saying your shed was $300. I'll admit I was scratching my head on that one, it was the instigation for my post #54.

I said $300+shed, and the shed was cost.
I meant the shed was money, the rest of the equipment not.
I later clarified $2200 or so for the shed.

My bad if that was not clear.

 

[Ashful]

Then we're not so opposite, after all!

 

[stoveliker]

Well, $300 or so for equipment (maybe $500 with the additions), vs $40k...
;-)

 

[Ashful]

Well, $300 or so for equipment (maybe $500 with the additions), vs $40k...
;-)

It's all in how you count and justify it, I guess. If we count truck, trailer, splitter, saws, sheds, and front-end loader, I'm in right around $100k. But I'd own a truck either way, and other than that and the sheds, most items will not lose that many dollars when resold by me or my unfortunate executor.

If we ignore inflation, I'm guessing all-in losses will total around $10k for 20 years of burning. But in that time, I'll likely save nearly $100k in oil.

 

[Garbanzo62]

Wood shed is not on the priority list at the moment. If I had the $$ I would build a Tool Shed first. Additionally, the only available space for either is in a low lying area that can get wet at times. So it is going to be top covered stacks for me for a while. My only issue is I am running out of places to put those.

 

[vbu]

I built a shed late last year, holds about 10 cords, I have about 2500$ or a little more into it