Im in the first year of ownership of my Kuma Sequoia. I have never seen anything over 1100 deg on the cat probe. Im not so sure I trust the cat probe (cat is red when reading 250) but I find it hard to believe there are that many probes out there that read low. Even with extremely dry wood my cat stays between 1000-1100 when pushing it as hard as I can. With 35+ feet of chimney I knew the cat life would be compromised and I just ordered a new one because there is almost nothing left. I am not going to put a damper on it because I can easily get 12-15 hour burns and Im not going to change the way I burn. It provides great heat. the only thing i may do is switch to a steel cat and see if that prolongs cat life.
Kuma sequoia review
- Thread starter sweedish
- Start date
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Woody Stover
Minister of Fire
Yeah, not sure I would trust that either. If I see a red or orange cat, the stove top is going to 500+. Cat is probably about 1200 or more, but I don't have a cat meter. Just guessing based on what the cat probe on the Buck would read, when I had a medium orange glow going on.
How brightly is the cat glowing at that point...bright orange?...approaching yellow?
What damage do you see? Scooped-out face on the cat? Crumbled?
As I said, I would put in a damper, just to have the stove running as the maker intended.
So, a ceramic cat comes with the stove, but you can also get a steelie replacement? Steel wouldn't cup or crumble. But I would still open the bypass a couple minutes before opening the door, to let the cat cool. I do that even on my steelie..
I dont remember exactly but I believe the cat is bright orange when at full tilt. When I get the new one in and we have our polar vortex next week, Ill try to get some pictures. I will also update my thread on the install with pictures of the cat. It is totally crumbled. I think a damper would definitely help because Im willing to bet 99% of the cat damage occurs when reloading and the intense off gassing will draw through both the bypass and the cat. It begins to roar in no time and I am concerned about flames shooting straight up the flue so I close the damper down prematurely and then of course all the flames are going thru the cat. Im just not interested in installing one right now. If the steel cat helps then Ill settle on that. If not, then in the future I may install a damper.
Woody Stover
Minister of Fire
I think the crumbled cat is mainly caused by "thermal shock." Opening the bypass for a couple minutes before opening the door should avoid that, I think.
Face of the cat was not cupped? That would be from "flame impingement" i.e. sucking flame through the cat shield.
I’m not completely opposed to a damper, I suppose I could do it, but I would need a long key and to install it I would have to drill through the stone fascia, and through the old heatform, unless someone has other ideas, I’m just hoping it doesn’t have to come to that.
I did hit a new Burn high with small pine.
I also hit 1350 trying to figure out why I was backdrafting, having the air control open along with the door thinking my liner was cold.
I did hit a new Burn high with small pine.
I also hit 1350 trying to figure out why I was backdrafting, having the air control open along with the door thinking my liner was cold.
I did hard pipe my OAK, which was not easy since I had to line the pipe up with the air inlet going through the old fireplace clean out, using a dryer offset and flex pipe, not easily done, but like a blind man at an orgy, I felt my way in.
I then taped the inlet 3/4 closed.
I have kept a log and experimented some. Here are results thus far
As for last night:
At 1015 pm Reloaded stove at probe reading of 450, large splits maple, loaded e-w, I define a large split about the size of my hand, a small split fist size or smaller. Very full firebox
1020 bypass closed, cat probe 650, air control closed down to 1/4.
1038 cat probe 800, air cut to 1/8 open
700 am blower still on, probe reads 700 degrees, still enough burnable pieces for 2+ hrs
736 am, reloaded stove, pine, cat probe rose to 900, air open at 1/4, pine, big pieces on top of remaining maple,
745 probe reads 850, air closed to 1/8.
245 pm, probe at 500, still good coals/unburnt pieces for probably another 2 hrs burn.
3:00 pm, stove reloaded, large pieces, e-w reload, pine.
3:07 pm, cat probe reads 800, air control open to 1/8th
8 pm, probe reads 550 degrees, opened air to 1/2,
815 pm, probe reads 700,
945 pm cat probe 400.
1000 stove reloaded, air control at 1/4, e-w load, pine and maple, full firebox
1020 cat probe reading 900, off to bed
630, probe reads 250, blower off, few coals
645 stove reloaded, n/s with pine, half full, burning the uglies for a bit
I then taped the inlet 3/4 closed.
I have kept a log and experimented some. Here are results thus far
As for last night:
At 1015 pm Reloaded stove at probe reading of 450, large splits maple, loaded e-w, I define a large split about the size of my hand, a small split fist size or smaller. Very full firebox
1020 bypass closed, cat probe 650, air control closed down to 1/4.
1038 cat probe 800, air cut to 1/8 open
700 am blower still on, probe reads 700 degrees, still enough burnable pieces for 2+ hrs
736 am, reloaded stove, pine, cat probe rose to 900, air open at 1/4, pine, big pieces on top of remaining maple,
745 probe reads 850, air closed to 1/8.
245 pm, probe at 500, still good coals/unburnt pieces for probably another 2 hrs burn.
3:00 pm, stove reloaded, large pieces, e-w reload, pine.
3:07 pm, cat probe reads 800, air control open to 1/8th
8 pm, probe reads 550 degrees, opened air to 1/2,
815 pm, probe reads 700,
945 pm cat probe 400.
1000 stove reloaded, air control at 1/4, e-w load, pine and maple, full firebox
1020 cat probe reading 900, off to bed
630, probe reads 250, blower off, few coals
645 stove reloaded, n/s with pine, half full, burning the uglies for a bit
My wood has been on a rack inside for 3 weeks, so I’m not measuring cold wood, and the pine is 21.5% moisture on a fresh split, I’m no professor, but I don’t see how this would shorten the burn time.
I know it’s pine, but I was thinking that I should at least get an overnight out of it.
When I say full firebox, I mean I can’t get any more pieces in, but I’m not also scrounging the stack looking to play a 3D game of Tetris in the firebox. I did that the one night of my longest burn.
If I could get this thing to cruise with a cat probe of 800 ish, I’d be rather comfortable in the house, currently it’s -3 out, full moon no cloud cover cold last night.
I know it’s pine, but I was thinking that I should at least get an overnight out of it.
When I say full firebox, I mean I can’t get any more pieces in, but I’m not also scrounging the stack looking to play a 3D game of Tetris in the firebox. I did that the one night of my longest burn.
If I could get this thing to cruise with a cat probe of 800 ish, I’d be rather comfortable in the house, currently it’s -3 out, full moon no cloud cover cold last night.
Holds 3 gorilla carts worth, try to keep a steady supply so I don’t burn cold or rain/snow wet wood
I’m unsure the exact way to measure your draft, I’m pretty convinced I need a damper or something. I know that if you open the bypass and the air control open and open the door if feels like it could suck your shirt off.
Rackey you may want to call Kuma and talk to their stove tech guy. They can offer some advice on the flame impingement of the cat due to your draft. They did for me and it made a big difference.
sweedish you may really want to consider a damper. It made a world of difference in my install. Burn time was improved somewhat, but more importantly, the stove put out alot more heat. Alot of the heat was being lost out the chimney and keeping that heat more in the box transferred it into the room. I feel like the heat output improved by atleast 50-75% after the damper was installed. I went from only heating half of my 3k square feet above furnace setpoints to being able to heat the whole thing with just the Kuma.
sweedish you may really want to consider a damper. It made a world of difference in my install. Burn time was improved somewhat, but more importantly, the stove put out alot more heat. Alot of the heat was being lost out the chimney and keeping that heat more in the box transferred it into the room. I feel like the heat output improved by atleast 50-75% after the damper was installed. I went from only heating half of my 3k square feet above furnace setpoints to being able to heat the whole thing with just the Kuma.
So the new cat showed up a day early today. I figured Id throw after I got home from work. When installing the cat I noticed there was no stop to position the cat so I pushed about an extra inch or so further back so the flame deflector has a better chance at extinguishing the flame before it hits the cat. When I first installed the stove it was pushed right up against the deflector. We'll see how this works. Its glowing bright orange right now!
After doing some thinking, I may have come up with a plan to have a dampener without trying to drill through the rock then the heatform and a 2’ rod to control it. What if one was to put a sprocket on the damper, with a chain drop down to the space above the stove. And another sprocket on a shaft with a handle? Like a bicycle
I talked to Kuma today, and I’m still experimenting with burn times. I did order some parts today. An offset to nose the insert out more, should result in more heat. And I also got a couple of 45’s, some pipe and a damper coming. I do hope this works in giving me longer heat and some burn time.
Woody Stover
Minister of Fire
All I've seen here is White Ash, but I'm wondering if that wood in your pic is Green Ash? It's about like soft Maple on the BTU charts. In a couple years, when you've had time to get some Oak or hard Maple dry, you'll see more heat and longer burns. That said, I think the damper will help with burn time and heat output, as John B stated in his case.
I'd like to see a better pic of what you have connecting to the stove. If there's an appliance adaptor before it hooks to the liner, maybe you can put the damper there, then just run a rod to the front of the fireplace to open or close the damper?
There is an appliance adapter hooked to the adapter on the top of the insert that sticks up 2”, which can be removed. But I’d like to put an offset adapter on to nose the insert further out. It’s maple, there was spaulting and medullary rays in it. Would have made rather pretty boards. I did save a bit to perhaps take to the sawyer. I do hand tool woodwork in my spare time, but for now trying to get better burns and a more heat,
I did a reload today with the stove damper fully closed and air control open, no smoke exiting into the room.
I did a reload today with the stove damper fully closed and air control open, no smoke exiting into the room.
Highbeam
Minister of Fire
It could be that the location and length of the cat sensing probe does not allow the cat meter to indicate the actual temperature very well. Some stove designs are just not able to accommodate a proper cat meter probe location.
Fortunately for me the vertically oriented BK cat right under the stove top allows a short cat meter probe to drop directly behind the cat and absorb all of the 1500 degree goodness.
Woody Stover
Minister of Fire
The offset adapter will complicate sweeping the liner. Sweeping from the top will leave creosote crumbs in the offset, that you have to clean out through the box (if you don't want to pull the insert to clean.) Sweeping from the bottom with a Soot-Eater will be out, I think. If you have room to put the damper in the appliance adapter, you can just run a rod to the front, no sprockets or anything complicated. Or maybe if you are going to leave the surround off, you could reach the damper handle with your hand. Looks like it would be an arm-scorcher though, unless you have a welder's sleeve you could slip on your arm.
I don't think nosing the stove out will give much more heat. Are you using a blower? That should pull the majority of the heat off the box. But their "natural convection" design seems like it should work pretty well, so I can understand you wanting to bring the stove out to take fuller advantage of that. Or maybe you can use a couple of small computer fans blowing toward the air ducts to enhance the movement of heated air out of the fireplace?
Ah, you know your woods I see. Maybe you have a different type of Maple in MI that I haven't seen? The soft Maple I see here (Silver or Red) has more flaky bark, not blocky like in your pic, and the hard (Sugar) Maple can even approach White Oak in the flakiness of the bark.
The Buck 91 cat probe comes in from the front and the tip of the probe extends slightly over the face of the cat. Even though it was 6", it still transmitted temps very well. I generally ran it around 1200 or so, but saw it pushing 1800 a couple times, before I got better control of the air.
In retrospect, instead of tweaking the air intake on the stove, I'd have been better off just putting a damper in. Woulda been pretty easy...
The Fireview and Keystone, on the other hand, have the probe coming in from the back, and the stock probe doesn't reach to over the cat face. I tried a longer 8" probe, but it still doesn't transmit the true temp. To get a short probe over the face of the cat, I would have to drill through the top stone and the cat heat shield. Since I have a surface meter on the tee, and the probe actually gives me temp conditions around the flue exit, I run the stove with those and don't worry about the cat temp as long as it's not glowing too brightly.
It looks like you would be able to see the cat glow in the Sequoia. The heat shield on the Buck blocked visibility through the door glass, but I could see the glow if I looked through the bypass rod hole in the front of the stove.
You are saying you had the bypass closed? As I mentioned, to avoid crumbling the ceramic cat, open the bypass for a couple minutes to allow the cat to cool before opening the door...this will avoid thermal shock. My neighbor had the habit of opening the stove door and throwing in a couple of splits at a time. Some no doubt had rain or snow moisture on them. His cat would crumble after a year or two. I tried to explain "batch burning" to him but I don't know if it took...
The offset adapter will complicate sweeping the liner. Sweeping from the top will leave creosote crumbs in the offset, that you have to clean out through the box (if you don't want to pull the insert to clean.) Sweeping from the bottom with a Soot-Eater will be out, I think. If you have room to put the damper in the appliance adapter, you can just run a rod to the front, no sprockets or anything complicated. Or maybe if you are going to leave the surround off, you could reach the damper handle with your hand. Looks like it would be an arm-scorcher though, unless you have a welder's sleeve you could slip on your arm.
I don't think nosing the stove out will give much more heat. Are you using a blower? That should pull the majority of the heat off the box. But their "natural convection" design seems like it should work pretty well, so I can understand you wanting to bring the stove out to take fuller advantage of that. Or maybe you can use a couple of small computer fans blowing toward the air ducts to enhance the movement of heated air out of the fireplace?
Ah, you know your woods I see. Maybe you have a different type of Maple in MI that I haven't seen? The soft Maple I see here (Silver or Red) has more flaky bark, not blocky like in your pic, and the hard (Sugar) Maple can even approach White Oak in the flakiness of the bark.
The Buck 91 cat probe comes in from the front and the tip of the probe extends slightly over the face of the cat. Even though it was 6", it still transmitted temps very well. I generally ran it around 1200 or so, but saw it pushing 1800 a couple times, before I got better control of the air.
View attachment 241629
The Fireview and Keystone, on the other hand, have the probe coming in from the back, and the stock probe doesn't reach to over the cat face. I tried a longer 8" probe, but it still doesn't transmit the true temp. To get a short probe over the face of the cat, I would have to drill through the top stone and the cat heat shield. Since I have a surface meter on the tee, and the probe actually gives me temp conditions around the flue exit, I run the stove with those and don't worry about the cat temp as long as it's not glowing too brightly.
It looks like you would be able to see the cat glow in the Sequoia. The heat shield on the Buck blocked visibility through the door glass, but I could see the glow if I looked through the bypass rod hole in the front of the stove.
You are saying you had the bypass closed? As I mentioned, to avoid crumbling the ceramic cat, open the bypass for a couple minutes to allow the cat to cool before opening the door...this will avoid thermal shock. My neighbor had the habit of opening the stove door and throwing in a couple of splits at a time. Some no doubt had rain or snow moisture on them. His cat would crumble after a year or two. I tried to explain "batch burning" to him but I don't know if it took...
The offset adapter will complicate sweeping the liner. Sweeping from the top will leave creosote crumbs in the offset, that you have to clean out through the box (if you don't want to pull the insert to clean.) Sweeping from the bottom with a Soot-Eater will be out, I think. If you have room to put the damper in the appliance adapter, you can just run a rod to the front, no sprockets or anything complicated. Or maybe if you are going to leave the surround off, you could reach the damper handle with your hand. Looks like it would be an arm-scorcher though, unless you have a welder's sleeve you could slip on your arm.
I don't think nosing the stove out will give much more heat. Are you using a blower? That should pull the majority of the heat off the box. But their "natural convection" design seems like it should work pretty well, so I can understand you wanting to bring the stove out to take fuller advantage of that. Or maybe you can use a couple of small computer fans blowing toward the air ducts to enhance the movement of heated air out of the fireplace?
Ah, you know your woods I see. Maybe you have a different type of Maple in MI that I haven't seen? The soft Maple I see here (Silver or Red) has more flaky bark, not blocky like in your pic, and the hard (Sugar) Maple can even approach White Oak in the flakiness of the bark.
The Buck 91 cat probe comes in from the front and the tip of the probe extends slightly over the face of the cat. Even though it was 6", it still transmitted temps very well. I generally ran it around 1200 or so, but saw it pushing 1800 a couple times, before I got better control of the air.
View attachment 241629
The Fireview and Keystone, on the other hand, have the probe coming in from the back, and the stock probe doesn't reach to over the cat face. I tried a longer 8" probe, but it still doesn't transmit the true temp. To get a short probe over the face of the cat, I would have to drill through the top stone and the cat heat shield. Since I have a surface meter on the tee, and the probe actually gives me temp conditions around the flue exit, I run the stove with those and don't worry about the cat temp as long as it's not glowing too brightly.
It looks like you would be able to see the cat glow in the Sequoia. The heat shield on the Buck blocked visibility through the door glass, but I could see the glow if I looked through the bypass rod hole in the front of the stove.
You are saying you had the bypass closed? As I mentioned, to avoid crumbling the ceramic cat, open the bypass for a couple minutes to allow the cat to cool before opening the door...this will avoid thermal shock. My neighbor had the habit of opening the stove door and throwing in a couple of splits at a time. Some no doubt had rain or snow moisture on them. His cat would crumble after a year or two. I tried to explain "batch burning" to him but I don't know if it took...
I did it just to see if it would still draft enough damper closed on a reload, cat probe was 300
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