Lead painted ceilings I want to take down... dust hazard?

[MarcM]

As you can see by the subject, my question is very specific, but in case anyone is interested in the context/background of this project, I'll provide a little first. If you're not interested, skip to the asterisks below.

About a year ago, I moved into our family farmhouse, as my ailing grandmother couldn't live there anymore. The farm has been in the family since it was built circa 1760. The house was expanded significantly in 1811-1812, when we suspect another older house was moved on site, and connected with a newly built addition. The pic below is the only one I have available at the moment, which was really taken to show off the new tractor.

The section of house to the left is the new addition I mentioned. The old part of the house is a cape style, and is connected to the back of the addition, so the overall shape of the existing structure is an "L."

All of it is post and beam of course, all oak and chestnut. The living area totals about 3500 sq ft, depending on how much finished space under a sloping roof one considers livable space. There's one bathroom. All walls and ceilings are wood lathe and horsehair plaster. There's no insulation. Heat is provided by a 1940's Fitzgibbons 400 and the Hearthstone Heritage I installed on the newly Golden Flue lined chimney, seen in the middle of the picture (one of four chimneys, including the oil boiler). The central heat is hydronic with cast iron radiators.

Anyway, I have lots of plans for the house, as one can imagine, and I am beginning the more serious work this year. One of my intentions is to pull the lathe and plaster on the ceilings and walls so that I can rewire (most of it is still knob and tube which I've shut off... the sections I live in currently I've already rewired rudimentarily with NM), replumb if necessary (I'll add one bathroom), and to add a residential fire sprinkler system (I'm a fire protection engineer by profession).

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All of the walls are paper so I'm not concerned there, however, all of the ceilings are painted. I know that heating and sanding lead paint is a no-no, because they can generate dust, but what about just pulling down the lathe and plaster. It will obviously generate a lot of plaster dust, but will that be a big probem with the lead paint on it? Intuitively, it seems like it would be.

Fortunately, all the painted window/door trim, and painted doors are in good shape and not chipping.

 

[DAKSY]

Wear a GOOD respirator.
Even if there is a minimal danger of lead
dust, there are probably mouse droppings
& mold spores & who knows what else hiding/lurking
in your walls & ceilings...
Why take a chance?
Do your destruction in the warmer months so you can
leave the doors & windows open & evacuate whatever drops out...

 

[TreePapa]

There may actually be lead IN the plaster, as well as the paint

In addition to Dansky's advice:

- Make sure children and anyone not involved in the work is out of the house for the duration of the job, or isolate the work area w/ sheet plastic and keep 'em out of there.

- Wash down ALL surfaces, twice, after you do the demo work.

- Don't use a vaccum unless it is one of them 'spensive HEPA vacs made for HazMat work

- Double bag the waste.

I just reread your post. Since you're a Fire Protection Engineer, do you know anyone in the remediation biz? Run your plans past them if you do.

Peace,
- Sequoia

- Since you'll be working in warmer weather, set yourself up a "decon" area, i.e. an outdoor shower and wash completely before entering non-work area of house (or entering your vehicle).

- Wash work clothing separately, on longest possible cycle, and run an empty load before washing anything else. Better yet, wear disposable tyvek jumsuit, and wash the clothes under the jumpsuit separately.

 

[MarcM]

Thanks for the advice guys, I have no kids, fortunately, but of course I'm most concerned about the kids I may have in the future. Fortunately there's no wall to wall carpet anywhere in the house, so as I go room by room, there won't be any soft surfaces I can't clean with water. Another nice thing I got is that I'm on the FD; I own a Scott face mask... just need to buy some hepa cartidges for it. I was already thinking of a Tyvek suit and an outside shower.

I had no idea lead or lead compounds were ever added to plaster. Good to know.

 

[savageactor7]

That 's a beautiful old house.

Our house had that old lathe and plaster too. The first room I started in gave me a case of phenomia (sp), the Doc gave me the heads up on on that stuff once he found out what I was doing. Wear the appropriate breathing protection and takes steps to minimized dust cross contamination.

 

[MarcM]

That 's a beautiful old house.

Our house had that old lathe and plaster too. The first room I started in gave me a case of phenomia (sp), the Doc gave me the heads up on on that stuff once he found out what I was doing. Wear the appropriate breathing protection and takes steps to minimized dust cross contamination.

Thanks, the exterior will look better once I uncover and repaint the old narrow clapboards and get my replacement windows with the original 12 over 12 light pattern installed. And the black shutters will go back up too.

 

[MarcM]

lead paint can be covered with latex so long as its not on a friction surface like a window etc. disposable tyvek suits were required,dust on clothes is another factor,tracking thru the house. ground around the house is considered bad where the house was painted with lead paint probly= 5' for 1 story,8' for 2 sories, away from foundation where kids can play. old windows & friction from up/down is worst source .i took a course once
plaster may have asbestos in it also

Thanks... I'm reasonably certain all of the plaster was put in before asbestos came into use. Fortunately, my grandfather had abestos abatement done on all the heating pipes, which were insulated with it.

 

[Beanscoot]

There's nothing wrong with knob and tube wiring, assuming it was done properly in the first place. I would just fish new wires through the walls where needed and leave the lath and plaster. It's much nicer than drywall, and it would be a shame to do to many updates on such an old house. Not many are still around that aren't heavily modernized.

 

[MarcM]

There's nothing wrong with knob and tube wiring, assuming it was done properly in the first place. I would just fish new wires through the walls where needed and leave the lath and plaster. It's much nicer than drywall, and it would be a shame to do to many updates on such an old house. Not many are still around that aren't heavily modernized.

The problem is knob and tube and insulation do not mix. Aside from the fact there's no ground wire.

Also in a fire, lathe and plaster is not much nicer than dry wall... most of what I'll be putting up is fiberglass re board.

The way I look at it is this- if the house were preserved in close to its original condition, then I'd agree, it would be a shame to do lots of updates (trust me, I know, I'm on the board of directors for www.theblacktavern.com, which my grandfather restored and preserved). But this is first and foremost a family home, has been since it was built. It was always a mix of the historical and practical. It has been updated throughout its history- the house was added on to twice, indoor plumbing was installed, an indoor bathroom, kitchen, central heat, coal furnace and then an oil boiler and storage tanks, electricity, the windows have been changed at least twice...

At every point in the life of this home an update was completed, it was always done to rejuvanate the house and make the living more comfortable.

What is the historic value of knob and tube when I could be using oil lamps? Why burn new fangled wood stoves when fire places were only what they had when it was built.

I am keeping a strong historical foothold in everything I will do; as a matter of fact, I plan on devoting one of the several rooms to a museum of sorts to show off all of the antiques progressively accumulated over the years. At the same time, I don't want to raise a familiy with lead paint peeling from the ceilings and sills, cold air blowing in through window jambs and paying hand over fist to heat a leaky, uninsulated 3500 sq ft house at the bottom of a N-S valley with little wind break.

 

[TreePapa]

There's nothing wrong with knob and tube wiring, assuming it was done properly in the first place. I would just fish new wires through the walls where needed and leave the lath and plaster. It's much nicer than drywall, and it would be a shame to do to many updates on such an old house. Not many are still around that aren't heavily modernized.

Several areas around hear (such as "Old Pasadena") have many homes over 100 yrs old, many of which originally had knob & tube. Typically, knob & tube is only presrved is in historical showpieces that nobody actually lives it. Otherwise, it is generally abonded in place and new wiring "fished" through walls, floors, and ceilings. Of course, our winters are very mild, and in many of the historic areas summers are more mild than in other nearby areas (that's one reason they were settled early). If we had Mid-West type winters, I s'pect many of the homeowners would be less fastitious about preserving the original lath & plaster. OTOH, I doubt there are many, if any, buildings around here with HORSEHAIR plaster.

Good luck on your reno.

Peace,
- Sequoia