Like a game of Jenga heating a house in Maine... Where to put the Jotul F3CB and what other stove to buy?

[burro child]

Greetings!

I am a longtime lurker on these forums, and this is my first post. I hope it's not too detailed--might be better broken up into separate posts--but on the other hand everything is highly related to the rest of the context.

In 2021 we bought a 2800-square-foot 2-story colonial with finished basement in southern Maine. It is currently heated by a Quadrafire 1200i pellet stove insert (approximate usage 5 tons/year) and an ancient fuel oil boiler (approximate usage 600 gallons/year). Hot water--a fleeting thing, our showers are brief--is from a tankless coil on the oil burner.

I have been researching and planning upgrades to the heating systems for 6 months, and plan to replace the oil boiler with an MESys / OkoFen in the spring, with a hot water tank. I'm excited about the system and looking forward to ending our oil consumption. Now, I'm looking to install two cordwood stoves for secondary heat, the ambiance and good cheer of a wood fire, and resiliency so I can keep the house from freezing when the power is out or if the pellet boiler malfunctions. I do not expect the wood stoves to keep the entire house comfortably warm. Maybe 60F as a goal, but really I just don't want my family or the pipes to freeze in the event we can't run the pellet boiler.

There are two locations we need wood stoves:
1. A brick fireplace hearth in the main living area, to replace the existing pellet stove. It has a brick chimney original to the 1957 house with a GoldenFlue masonry chimney lining added in the last 15 years.

2. New install in a 350-square-foot sun porch that is drafty. It's kind of insulated, but not very well. It connects to the kitchen via an open doorway than will soon have an exterior-grade door installed. The stove will be operated with the door to the main living area open and closed. Its primary application is to keep the porch warm and its circuit of baseboard heaters off until the middle of the night. A space heater, essentially. We need to run the chimney up to the top of the second story, per code. The stove will go between the two pieces of art hanging on this wall:



My basic question is: what kind of stoves should I purchase for these two applications? Based on my readings of these forums, my aesthetic preferences and my use of a variety of woodstoves for extended periods (DutchWest, homemade, Jotul, Harvia, ancient cookstoves), I think the best answer to that question is: a Jotul F400 for the living room and a Jotul F602 or a little Morso for the sun porch. Does that sound right?

But wait I got all excited looking at Craigslist, particularly given the shortages of new stoves, and bought a refurbished, rear-vented Jotul F3CB in ivory paint for the sun porch.


My thinking was: It's too much stove for the space, but I could always just run small loads, and if the door to the kitchen was open and I got the air circulation right, at least some of its excess capacity could heat the main living area via that doorway. So now my question is: Should I stick with the F3CB for the sun porch, or recoup the $900 I paid for it and get the F602 or Morso?

And, is the F400 a good choice for the fireplace whether I go with the F3CB or one of the smaller stoves for the sun porch?

It's exhausting typing this, so if you've read this far--thank you! And if you have helpful advice, thanks in advance!

Stokes

 

[marty319]

Blaze king

 

[stoveliker]

Blaze king

unlikely to appeal given the expressed aesthetics.

@burro child
Yes, you can always make small fires. In fact, it's easier to do that than to drag more heat out of a stove that is not intended to provide that much heat.
For a drafty place in Maine, I'd rather go bigger. But I'd also consider insulating that room more.

 

[burro child]

Blaze king

Thanks, that is a great tip—I have shied away from catalytic but if I ever need to heat a home solely with wood heat, I’ll take a very close look at these. But because the current application for is secondary heat with a focus on aesthetics and ambiance, I think I’m still prone to stay with non-cat Jotuls.

 

[burro child]

unlikely to appeal given the expressed aesthetics.

@burro child
Yes, you can always make small fires. In fact, it's easier to do that than to drag more heat out of a stove that is not intended to provide that much heat.
For a drafty place in Maine, I'd rather go bigger. But I'd also consider insulating that room more.

Indeed!
We are going to re-insulate the floor (the sun porch is over an uninsulated shed) but no budget for the rest of the envelope—and there are a ton of doublehung windows of quite questionable R-value that are staying.

 

[bigealta]

I would use the f3 over a smaller stove. It's really not very big.

 

[begreen]

I would use the f3 over a smaller stove. It's really not very big.

This^^ It's only 1.3 cu ft. It'll be ok for the converted porch space.

For the fireplace, consider an insert. We need full dimensions to determine what will fit. After fit will come mantel clearances, which could be an issue given all the close woodwork.

 

[xman23]

I would use what you have, and see how it works. Is wood burning for you? wood stoves are a lot of work. The big cost will be the chimney. Check the Jotul for cracks.
My Dad had hot water coil in the oil burner. It was horrible. Many issues. For heat you need to keep the boiler temp up high. This makes the hot water scalding. The minerals in the water would plug the coil in a few years. You might conciser just getting the hot water for a separate hot water heater.

 

[burro child]

This^^ It's only 1.3 cu ft. It'll be ok for the converted porch space.

For the fireplace, consider an insert. We need full dimensions to determine what will fit. After fit will come mantel clearances, which could be an issue given all the close woodwork.

I love the affirmation from y’all that the F3CB is a workable choice for the sun porch.

As to the living room, I’d welcome a highly functioning insert. I have not dug into those and just assumed it would be more effective heat-wise to run a freestanding stove. I’d love advice on inserts to look at.

And, the hearth and mantel are being redone—design not set but the idea now is to remove all of the decorative woodwork, run a beam across the top for a mantel, and use two tile types to resurface the brick and tile (currently red paint) portions: a simple cheap functional tile around the edge and a decorative portion, maybe Pewabic, outside of that. I’d rather not demo any masonry, but adding masonry and/or subtracting wood should be possible.

Dimensions:

Hearth portion, extending out into the floor:

49 3/8” W x 18 1/2” D x 8 1/4” H



Fireplace cavity interior:

38 1/2 “ W x 28 1/2 “ x ???” D (it’s 19 degrees here rn and the Quadrafire is running flat out.

 

[EbS-P]

F3 is a good choice for the sun room. You need to go bigger for the other stove. My in laws are in Acton and have an F400 power went out and we could load it every 3 hours and keep the living room 80 kitchen 70 downstairs bedrooms 60 and upstairs well we woke up and it was 45 one morning.

I have an F400 and love it but it just too small and it’s really radiant. Mine is tucked into my fireplace and it’s ok. Great for down here in the south. I just installed an insert down stairs and it really a better heating appliance for a fireplace. So rear vent a stove and have it most of the way out of the fireplace or get an insert.

For Stoves look at the Pacific energy T5 or the big T6. Inserts. Blaze king for the tax credit. Drolet for best value, Pacific Energy T5 for looks. Running two stoves at once is work. So I recommend erroring on the larger size. What will it take to heat when it’s -19 out?

Evan

 

[burro child]

What will it take to heat when it’s -19 out?

Great notes—thank you!

The real-world example of the f400 at your in-laws is super-helpful. It suggests the f400 would just about work if we slept downstairs… just about.

It’s clear, too, that I need to look at inserts, and to better understand the output loss from running them without power. I could “always” run the blowers off of generator and/or battery, but I’d rather totally decouple the backup heat application from electricity.

Really appreciate this advice!

 

[hockeypuck]

I assume you will be planning to stay a while in your house. I am not sure how good it will go trying to sell a house with the main heat system being powered by pellets. I would keep the main system gas/oil and have the other auxiliary heat sources either wood or pellet depending on your access to wood and ambition to move the wood 4 times before it hits the stove. I have 4 types of heat sources in my house, oil, wood, pellet, heat pump. Can not beat a stove full of hot coals to drive the cold from a body, but its a constant effort. Good luck in whatever you decide.

 

[BrianVA]

Lopi/Travis Industries has some nice inserts. I have one. Very good aesthetics and also a good heater.

 

[burro child]

I assume you will be planning to stay a while in your house. I am not sure how good it will go trying to sell a house with the main heat system being powered by pellets. I would keep the main system gas/oil and have the other auxiliary heat sources either wood or pellet depending on your access to wood and ambition to move the wood 4 times before it hits the stove. I have 4 types of heat sources in my house, oil, wood, pellet, heat pump. Can not beat a stove full of hot coals to drive the cold from a body, but its a constant effort. Good luck in whatever you decide.

Thanks—I realize it’s a risk and might scare off some buyers, but we plan to live here for 12 or more years, bulk wood pellets are plentiful here, contribute to the regional economy instead of Texas or Ohio or Saudi, have a relatively low and stable cost and moderate to no carbon footprint, and the Maine-assembled MESys boilers are very well reviewed and appear to be as good and easy to operate and maintain as a fuel or gas boiler. The one downside is the volume required for the pellet hopper, but we have ample room for that right next to the mechanical room in the basement. Once we have the pellet system installed and running I’ll post about it on the right forum here.

So I hope and expect the risk is worth taking

 

[kennyp2339]

The one downside is the volume required for the pellet hopper, but we have ample room for that right next to the mechanical room in the basement.

Just remember when you have open bulk storage (talking tonnage) you certainly need co detectors and a vent fan because pellets will off gas and displace room oxygen with co.

 

[stoveliker]

Not sure the above is (empirically) correct; see e.g.

Lethal carbon monoxide poisoning in wood pellet storerooms

I have had a CO monitor in the same room as my pellet stove (up above it - since CO is lighter than O2) and is has never gone off.

www.hearth.com

 

[Rose Lane]

Thanks—I realize it’s a risk and might scare off some buyers, but we plan to live here for 12 or more years, bulk wood pellets are plentiful here, contribute to the regional economy instead of Texas or Ohio or Saudi, have a relatively low and stable cost and moderate to no carbon footprint, and the Maine-assembled MESys boilers are very well reviewed and appear to be as good and easy to operate and maintain as a fuel or gas boiler. The one downside is the volume required for the pellet hopper, but we have ample room for that right next to the mechanical room in the basement. Once we have the pellet system installed and running I’ll post about it on the right forum here.

So I hope and expect the risk is worth taking

hello fellow Mainer !

Pellet stoves for backup scenarios- do these not require electricity?
We removed one for that exact reason.
Perhaps you have a battery system in play as well?

 

[burro child]

Just remember when you have open bulk storage (talking tonnage) you certainly need co detectors and a vent fan because pellets will off gas and displace room oxygen with co.

Thanks! We are using an installer recommended by MESys who is great and only does this. I’ll be sure to ask him about this.

 

[kennyp2339]

Not sure the above is (empirically) correct; see e.g.

Lethal carbon monoxide poisoning in wood pellet storerooms

I have had a CO monitor in the same room as my pellet stove (up above it - since CO is lighter than O2) and is has never gone off.

www.hearth.com

Good point, but would you take the chance? It has been extensively drilled into my head about the dangers of products off gassing at the fire academy, you would be surprised what simple organic products can do in an enclosed environment, hell fresh cut grass can kill you under the right conditions, would have never thought of that.

 

[burro child]

hello fellow Mainer !

Pellet stoves for backup scenarios- do these not require electricity?
We removed one for that exact reason.
Perhaps you have a battery system in play as well?

Hi! Yes, our current pellet stove insert requires power, and the pellet boiler we plan to install requires even more. We have a generator that is plenty to power either. My hope is to replace the pellet stove with a cordwood burner that will not require power, to remove the requirement for any electricity to heat the house, but it’s going to be hard to find a stove with enough output that fits or an insert that has enough output without its blowers working. If I go the insert route I’ll likely use a battery pack for short outages so I don’t have to run the generator.

 

[hockeypuck]

Thanks—I realize it’s a risk and might scare off some buyers, but we plan to live here for 12 or more years, bulk wood pellets are plentiful here, contribute to the regional economy instead of Texas or Ohio or Saudi, have a relatively low and stable cost and moderate to no carbon footprint, and the Maine-assembled MESys boilers are very well reviewed and appear to be as good and easy to operate and maintain as a fuel or gas boiler. The one downside is the volume required for the pellet hopper, but we have ample room for that right next to the mechanical room in the basement. Once we have the pellet system installed and running I’ll post about it on the right forum here.

So I hope and expect the risk is worth taking

Well you are going into it eyes wide open, so that is a good thing.