Liner alignment

[Ctwoodtick]

I had this heavywall liner installed for last 9 years. I’ve been working on doing a block off plate so I’m looking things in more detail than I had before.
I asked AI if this liner looked like it was properly connected and it said that the liner coming down at this angle is a problem. It said that over time the force of the heavywall liner at that angle will cause stress on the adaptor and cause stress on fasteners causing leaks and whatnot. I wanted to ost and see what you all thought. The liner leans back like that due to the damper frame still being in place.
Wanted to see what you all thought.

 

[begreen]

They make 15º and 30º adapter elbows to resolve this concern.

 

[Ctwoodtick]

They make 15º and 30º adapter elbows to resolve this concern.

View attachment 350115

Thank you. If I switch adaptor to an offset one, how do I deal with the holes in liner that were made from the existing adapter for the screws/rivets?

 

[Ctwoodtick]

I think I will call in a pro to address this.
The original installer (9 years ago)i remember said he wanted liner to lean back to go around the damper. I didn’t know any better at the time. He used normal adaptor that he then screwed or riveted into the Jotul draw down adaptor. As I look further now, one on the screws is appearing loose, another is missing ( I actually found it on the stovetop underneath the insert shroud). There is one screw that looks intact holding one adapter to the draw down adaptor. I’m not pleased.
I feel like I have a mess on my hands.

A couple questions I have at the moment:
-Will I be able to find a 15 degree adaptor that is rated for a heavywall liner? I’m reading that that is needed.

- with installing a new offset adapter, what about the holes that were used for the current setup? I’m guessing new holes would be needed to made for screws. Perhaps bigger screws could get put in those existing holes.

I’m really frustrated. 9 years ago I had the install redone bc the very original install was bad. Hate being in this boat again.

 

[Ctwoodtick]

Another question would be I’m not entirely sure what brand the liner is. Are there universal heavywall offset adaptors that could be used.? Maybe this is a good question for @bholler .
I want to make sure this get down right, so I apologize in advance for many questions. I’ve been burned a number of times with contractors so I’d like to be as knowledgeable as possible.

 

[Ctwoodtick]

Another question would be I’m not entirely sure what brand the liner is. Are the universal heavywall offset adaptors that could be used.? Maybe this is a good question for @bholler .
I want to make sure this get down right, so I apologize in advance for many questions.

 

[bholler]

Another question would be I’m not entirely sure what brand the liner is. Are there universal heavywall offset adaptors that could be used.? Maybe this is a good question for @bholler .
I want to make sure this get down right, so I apologize in advance for many questions. I’ve been burned a number of times with contractors so I’d like to be as knowledgeable as possible.

Yes any heavy wall adapter should work.

 

[Ctwoodtick]

Yes any heavy wall adapter should work.

OK, thank you. I’m gonna make some phone calls today about getting this addressed.
Can you tell me what you think about what I wrote up above and about the pictures I’ve posted? I’d like to be able to go into conversations with the chimney sweep with some specific things, that perhaps I’m not even seeing or aware of with this set up.

 

[Ctwoodtick]

Wanted to add this pic as well, which show the slant as it goes to adaptor. Thinking that I’ll need the 15 degree adapter to replace that current appliance adaptor, I wanted to see how the holes where the screws are in the liner are dealt with, Furnace cement or maybe some other way. I ask bc I’m guessing new screw holes would have to be made for the new adaptor. I want to know the proper way to do this before I get screwed again. Thank you, as always

 

[begreen]

Thank you. If I switch adaptor to an offset one, how do I deal with the holes in liner that were made from the existing adapter for the screws/rivets?

An elbow adapter may require shortening (or raising) the liner2-3". If cut, then not an issue. Otherwise fill the holes with stainless steel pop rivets.

 

[Ctwoodtick]

@bholler
Would cutting this heavy wall liner at the bottom be ok to accommodate the new height of liner and to get rid of where the old screw holes were on the bottom inch of it? I know heavywall liners are different construction than light wall and wanted to make sure that cutting is permitted for the bottom of liner where it sees the most heat.

Are pop rivets ok to use to plug screw hole in liner when contained in the adaptor sleeve? Wasn’t sure if the slight protrusion of the rivets would cause the fit to be compromised.

Also, my chimney is short at 14 feet and draft seems good for actual stove operation (secondaries are always good and no issues with heat or the burn in general), but I get some smoke from the door when open at times though. How much would a 15 or 30 degree adaptor negatively affect this.? According to AI, my liner is currently tilted 9-12 degrees so perhaps the decrease would not be much. I’m wondering if a 30 degree adaptor may be needed to get around the the edge of the damper frame which is resort thin close to the liner currently. I’ve heard the Jotul 550 can spill some smoke because of it designed but I’m not sure how accurate that is for everyone.
Thank you all for your help, very appreciated.
.

 

[bholler]

@bholler
Would cutting this heavy wall liner at the bottom be ok to accommodate the new height of liner and to get rid of where the old screw holes were on the bottom inch of it? I know heavywall liners are different construction than light wall and wanted to make sure that cutting is permitted for the bottom of liner where it sees the most heat.

Are pop rivets ok to use to plug screw hole in liner when contained in the adaptor sleeve? Wasn’t sure if the slight protrusion of the rivets would cause the fit to be compromised.

Also, my chimney is short at 14 feet and draft seems good for actual stove operation (secondaries are always good and no issues with heat or the burn in general), but I get some smoke from the door when open at times though. How much would a 15 or 30 degree adaptor negatively affect this.? According to AI, my liner is currently tilted 9-12 degrees so perhaps the decrease would not be much. I’m wondering if a 30 degree adaptor may be needed to get around the the edge of the damper frame which is resort thin close to the liner currently. I’ve heard the Jotul 550 can spill some smoke because of it designed but I’m not sure how accurate that is for everyone.
Thank you all for your help, very appreciated.
.

Yes you can cut it and yes stainless rivets would be a good solution for the holes. But cutting heavy wall is not that easy

 

[Ctwoodtick]

Yes you can cut it and yes stainless rivets would be a good solution for the holes. But cutting heavy wall is not that easy

OK, thank you. How much would you think of 15° or 30° offset elbow adapter would impact draft. My current draft is good enough for stove to burn well and completely, but at 14 feet chimney height, I will get a little bit of smoke out of the door sometimes.
And thank you again, I know that I can be a little bit much with all my questions.

 

[begreen]

A 15º elbow would have neglible effect on draft. Adding an 18" extension to the top would help regardless of solution.

 

[bholler]

OK, thank you. How much would you think of 15° or 30° offset elbow adapter would impact draft. My current draft is good enough for stove to burn well and completely, but at 14 feet chimney height, I will get a little bit of smoke out of the door sometimes.
And thank you again, I know that I can be a little bit much with all my questions.

Almost no effect

 

[Ctwoodtick]

Should I insist that the sweep use a 15 or 30 degree adaptor that is specific for heavywall or can one for regular light wall be used?

 

[begreen]

I haven't seen these adapter specific to the gauge of the liner.

 

[Ctwoodtick]

OK, thanks again. After the offset appliance adapter is installed, I want to move forward with putting in my block off plate. That said, I’m looking to have the crown of chimney replaced likely after this burning season ends. If is there much risk of debris falling down the masonry chimney and damaging the plate?

 

[Ctwoodtick]

@bholler , for installing a 15 degree appliance adaptor for heavywall liner, do you use screws to hold it in place in addition to the built- in band clamp?

 

[begreen]

The band clamp is sufficient. That's what it's designed to do.

 

[Ctwoodtick]

OK, I’ve been using AI to help me along with this as well with knowing how this should be properly done. It is saying with my Wood insert ( Jotul 550) , it has a “drop-down adaptor”. AI is saying that it would be a poor idea to insert a 15° elbow into that draw down adapter because the angled force of the heavy wall liner would cause issues.
Perhaps talking with the chimney sweep when they come out in a few days about pulling liner and then notching out a section of the troublesome damper frame and then reinstalling liner to fit in more straight up and down will be best.

 

[brenndatomu]

AI is saying that it would be a poor idea to insert a 15° elbow into that draw down adapter because the angled force of the heavy wall liner would cause issues.

AI is full of crap IMO

 

[begreen]

Did you tell AI that the liner is already approaching the flue collar at an angle. The point of the 15º elbow is to align vertically with the flue collar or in this case the d-d adapter. FWIW, the Jotul manual also recommends screwing into the liner which I am not in favor of, especially with light gauge liners.

 

[Ctwoodtick]

Did you tell AI that the liner is already approaching the flue collar at an angle. The point of the 15º elbow is to align vertically with the flue collar or in this case the d-d adapter. FWIW, the Jotul manual also recommends screwing into the liner which I am not in favor of, especially with light gauge liners.

Thanks for the information. It’s tough- it’s like the more I read the more contradictory things I see. My goal is to have a solid set up after the sweep comes out. After having some issues after 2 different installs in the past, I’m extremely wary.

 

[kborndale]

AI is full of crap IMO

AI is a great tool if you use it correctly. You have to question it sometimes to get the correct answer and you have to make sure it is considering all the details. Without doing that it can be quite ignorant.