Looking for a Double SidedWood Burning fireplace

[fpgeek]

Agree with begreen, for that size house, definitively go with something bigger like the Pacific Energy FP30. Mine is setup with a duct/fan to the basement and I would say the heat distribution is typically about 35% going to the large area on the main floor where the fireplace is located, and 65% to the basement. The heat distribution fan is on a rheostat that varies the air flow, so I have some level of control control over this ratio. If you go with something like the Valcourt Mundo II, with forced air distribution only, that ratio will be quite different, with much less heat going to the other rooms.

I've done quite a bit of researches last year for selecting the right zero-clearance fireplace for my new house. I ended up with the Cozy Heat Z42 and Pacific Energy FP30 in my short list (they both can do N/S loading). I chose the FP30 because I've used a FP25 for 4 years before it was such a great unit. I'm not disappointed with the FP30 so far, superb quality, heavy construction, great efficient burner. You can't go wrong with it, look at all the positive comments on this forum, you'll see what I'm talking about.

Good luck with your researches, let me know if you have questions!

 

[fpgeek]

And something else to consider: the heat distribution fan can be noisy. As I've mentioned in the other thread that begreen linked earlier, the fan that came with the Pacific Energy heat distribution kit that I've installed with my previous FP25 was too noisy for my taste. It wasn't too bad because it was located in a corridor in the basement, but you would not enjoy having this type of fan in a living room. There are better fans out there, the one from SBI (Valcourt) that I've installed here with the FP30 is very quiet, kids can watch TV in the basement right next to it with no problem.

 

[mellow]

Probably smaller than what you are looking for but Valcourt makes one: https://woodstoves.net/valcourt/westmount-wood-fireplace.htm

 

[First_Time_House]

And something else to consider: the heat distribution fan can be noisy. As I've mentioned in the other thread that begreen linked earlier, the fan that came with the Pacific Energy heat distribution kit that I've installed with my previous FP25 was too noisy for my taste. It wasn't too bad because it was located in a corridor in the basement, but you would not enjoy having this type of fan in a living room. There are better fans out there, the one from SBI (Valcourt) that I've installed here with the FP30 is very quiet, kids can watch TV in the basement right next to it with no problem.

Thank you. Good tip - especially on the fan. The smaller room is where the TV will be, so I don't want the TV competing with the sound of the fan and the larger room is the living room / dining room area, so that would be annoying too.

Re the size, I'm very much a newbie to this, so I had to look up what NS meant when it comes to fires - so now I know that means that it's large enough to load the wood either length-ways or widthways.
I just (this weekend) moved to a rented house that has an insert and am blown away by the efficiency and heat. Last winter the house I was renting had an open fireplace and I burned through a LOT of wood for not much heat. Now I'm burning about 1/10 the wood and getting better heat. Totally sold on a wood stove type thing. (I know a zero clearance fireplace is less efficient than a stove, but still way better than a fireplace)
Anyway - re the size, and the FP 30 vs the FP25. The primary heating in the house will be propane radiant heating. There will also be 2 air exchange heat pumps, so the wood fireplace is really supplementary / back-up and for the ambience. Both of these options are $$$$. The FP25 online price says $6,500 and the FP30 says $8,600. Given the cost - do you think it makes sense to spend that much - as a supplemental / back up heat source, it would likely take decades for a return on the investment. What do you think?

 

[First_Time_House]

Probably smaller than what you are looking for but Valcourt makes one: https://woodstoves.net/valcourt/westmount-wood-fireplace.htm

Thank you. Possibly stupid question, but I don't see it specified anywhere - is this a zero clearance fireplace? I'm building a new house so it needs to be zero clearance.
I would like a see-through, but I see it's listed as 'decorative' rather than performance. Is there anywhere to get efficiency type information on 'decorative' performance? Winter of 2021 -> 2022 I rented a house with a fireplace that was horribly inefficient, and just this weekend I moved into another house with a fireplace insert and the efficiency is incredible. I read a fireplace is only 10%, wood stove can be close to 90% and insert/zero clearance fireplace can be in the 80s%. If a decorative fireplace is about halfway, then I could be persuaded but I can't find any performance type data... Do you have any idea?

 

[mellow]

Anything listed decorative, ZC or not will suck at heating (hence the lack of BTU data). I would not recommend it for heating but wanted to show it to you as it is "double sided".

ZC units are what I call a shoehorn heater, they fit the spot you want to put it in and will do some heating but I wouldn't expect amazing results from them as they are stuffed in a "box" and rely on fans to get the heat out.

 

[begreen]

Anything listed decorative, ZC or not will suck at heating (hence the lack of BTU data). I would not recommend it for heating but wanted to show it to you as it is "double sided".

ZC units are what I call a shoehorn heater, they fit the spot you want to put it in and will do some heating but I wouldn't expect amazing results from them as they are stuffed in a "box" and rely on fans to get the heat out.

True, they convect better when the blower is running but this also depends on the design and installation. Some of the good EPA ZCs are setup to convect well, comparable to many flush inserts in a fireplace. Mostly, good ZC fireplaces are made to facilitate the addition of fireplace looks without the masonry infrastructure while meeting safe clearance codes.

Decorative ZCs are for show, not go. They are not for 24/7 heating.

 

[First_Time_House]

True, they convect better when the blower is running but this also depends on the design and installation. Some of the good EPA ZCs are setup to convect well, comparable to many flush inserts in a fireplace. Mostly, good ZC fireplaces are made to facilitate the addition of fireplace looks without the masonry infrastructure while meeting safe clearance codes.

Decorative ZCs are for show, not go. They are not for 24/7 heating.

Thanks Mellow and Begreen.
What I'm looking for is supplemental heating / ambiance (the house will be heated with propane radiant and 2 air heat pumps) - but I do want to it be more efficient than a regular fireplace where most of the heat just gets lost through the chimney.
If :
regular fireplace is 10% efficient
free standing stove 90%
insert 80%
ZC fireplace 70%

And a see through ZC fireplace (or close to - i.e. anything NOT needing a pre-existing masonry fireplace) is even 40% efficient, then I think I'd go for it. But there don't seem to be any efficiency stats on the decorative ones, so the cynic in me says they're probably not even that efficient, and so I'll pass......

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

In the process of building a house. I want a stove for efficiency, but wife won't hear of it. The design of the house would allow for a double sided fireplace, but all the reading I've done on that says it's a bad idea from efficiency and smell purposes. So, looking at an insert, and ideally a double sided insert.

Can anyone recommend something that fulfills:
1) More efficient than an open fireplace
2) Double sided fire-viewing

What's the wife have against a lovely wood stove?

 

[mellow]

You could go a different route and make the fireplace the center of attention: https://smokeymountainfireplaces.co...ron-36-cast-iron-wood-burning-stove-fireplace

It has the ambiance and 70% efficiency. No idea about it as they import them from france.

 

[begreen]

If:
regular fireplace is 10% efficient
free standing stove 90%
insert 80%
ZC fireplace 70%

No wood stove is 90% efficient. More like 65-75%. Any wood heater loses some efficiency due to the moisture content of the wood. Some lose more due to excess draft and poor operation. A good EPA ZC fireplace and an insert can be about equal, depending on the design. There are poor heating inserts (and good ones) and good heating ZCs (and poor ones). It could be said that an open fireplace's efficiency falls in the negative category as it sucks out warmed house air for hours as it cools down. Note that heating efficiency is not the same as emissions efficiency, which is what the EPA ratings are based on.

 

[begreen]

You could go a different route and make the fireplace the center of attention: https://smokeymountainfireplaces.co...ron-36-cast-iron-wood-burning-stove-fireplace

It has the ambiance and 70% efficiency. No idea about it as they import them from france.

Very nice looking, but that's a shallow firebox with a 4 hr burn time, 1500 sq ft heated. I wonder where the 70% efficiency rating comes from?

EDIT: looking at the specs, this is a freestander with some very large clearance requirements.

 

[mikey]

If you want a actual fireplace that you can see from two sides I knew someone who had one and said it did not draw well.

 

[First_Time_House]

What's the wife have against a lovely wood stove?

She thinks they would create a woodsmoke smell in the house, and she's concerned that our daughter would burn herself on the hot surface and she says she doesn't like the look of them. (I think the last one is the real reason, the others are excuses).

 

[First_Time_House]

If you want a actual fireplace that you can see from two sides I knew someone who had one and said it did not draw well.

Yes, I'm afraid I'll have to abandon the two-sided concept as whatever I choose needs to be reasonably efficient...

 

[First_Time_House]

Very nice looking, but that's a shallow firebox with a 4 hr burn time, 1500 sq ft heated. I wonder where the 70% efficiency rating comes from?

EDIT: looking at the specs, this is a freestander with some very large clearance requirements.

Like the look of this, but I think the clearance distances are too large. :-(

 

[First_Time_House]

You could go a different route and make the fireplace the center of attention: https://smokeymountainfireplaces.co...ron-36-cast-iron-wood-burning-stove-fireplace

It has the ambiance and 70% efficiency. No idea about it as they import them from france.

It looks great, but we want to have two distinct rooms, and this seems to be pretty much free standing or having a large clearance.
Thanks for the suggestion though.

 

[First_Time_House]

If you want a actual fireplace that you can see from two sides I knew someone who had one and said it did not draw well.

Yes, from online research plus this forum, that seems to be the consensus.
Now the wife wants a gas fireplace on one side and I still want a wood one..... AGhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. $$$$$$$$$$$

 

[First_Time_House]

Current status:
1) Given up on double sided - not efficient enough.
2) Still want a wood ZC fireplace.
3) Wife wants a gas fireplace on the large room side (This is for show / ambience more than heat).

Building contractor says it's possible (though it sounds scary to me to have a gas a wood fire place backing up to each other). Has anyone tried something like that?
I've attached some pictures (from today) showing the area where we plan on having the fireplace(s) and the smaller TV room with 9ft ceilings and the larger living / dining area with the cathedral ceiling.

I'm also now thinking about the physical weight - there is a basement underneath, I'm wondering about needing extra support for all the weight....

 

[begreen]

Physically, it can be done as long as both fireplaces have their requirements honored, or maybe put a nice gas-freestanding stove on a hearth on the kitchen side? Read the gas fireplace requirements carefully to make sure there are no caveats. The weight should not be too high, maybe around 800-1000# for both including the chimneys.

 

[Britbob]

Hi! I dont think anybody makes a double sided insert. Gas might have one, but to the best of my knowledge, wood does not.

Hi, I'm a new member here and just chiming in to say that there are a few double-sided inserts out there. I recently had one installed, the Morso S120-21. It has glass both sides but only loads on one side. (The other side does open via some rather fiddly latches for cleaning.)

My setup was that we added an extension onto the side of the house so the existing fireplace which was on the outside wall was now on the dividing wall. On the new side is a TV room/snug, while the old part of the house is now an open plan space. So we knocked through the back of the fireplace and

My house isn't that big and I live in the UK so our winters aren't very cold, so it might not work for bigger US houses and colder weather unless it's just for aesthetics rather than a main heat source, but it does chuck out plenty of heat (10 kW).

 

[EatenByLimestone]

That sounds awesome! Can you post some pics?

 

[TomMcDonald]

There's a couple made in Australia. https://www.eurekaheaters.com.au/eureka-wood-heaters/jewel-inbuilt-wood-heater
Maybe you could see if there's a dealer for these over there.
Tom.

 

[Britbob]

That sounds awesome! Can you post some pics?

The installation is not quite finished yet but here you go:

The main room will have a flush finish with a skim over the concrete board. For now it’s just bare boards but I can post some pics once it is finished.



The “back” of the fire is in the snug and at the weekend I used brick slips over the existing brick wall (old house exterior) and around the alcove which was boarded out. Because of the depth of the house wall it couldn’t be flush on both sides so it’s recessed by about five inches.

Before the brick:


And after (still to be plastered above the brick and a mantle shelf to be added).



The air supply for the stove comes up from underneath. You can install with vents in the wall but I got the builders to lay an air supply pipe under the floor of the extension leading to an airbrick in the outside wall so the fire draws air from outside rather than sucking in indoor air.