Looking for recs for wood burning insert that works when power is out

[Campfires]

Hey all,

I've started researching inserts for the house I just bought..

The fireplace is centrally located on the 1st floor on the outside wall and the floor plan is wide open (1.5 story bungalow, 1900ft2). The chimney is a 20-25ft straight shot. It's original to the house (1960) and is unlined. Cost is not a major concern but performance and looks are. I'm going to be remodeling the house as a craftsmen bungalow. Previous owner(s) have destroyed the character.

I have gas forced air. Ideally, I'm looking to be able to heat the entire house with the insert but would be okay with just the downstairs (1100ft2) if that's not feasible. I also would like an insert that provides decent heat if the power goes out.

I had two different contractors come out quoting almost $5k just to reline the chimney so suffice to say, I'm doing it myself.

Fireplace is 40 wide at the front, 34 wide at the back, 24 deep, 25 tall.

My buddies would help me install it (one is a GC). Thanks for any advice.

 

[jscs.moore]

Hey all,

I've started researching inserts for the house I just bought..

The fireplace is centrally located on the 1st floor on the outside wall and the floor plan is wide open (1.5 story bungalow, 1900ft2). The chimney is a 20-25ft straight shot. It's original to the house (1960) and is unlined. Cost is not a major concern but performance and looks are. I'm going to be remodeling the house as a craftsmen bungalow. Previous owner(s) have destroyed the character.

I have gas forced air. Ideally, I'm looking to be able to heat the entire house with the insert but would be okay with just the downstairs (1100ft2) if that's not feasible. I also would like an insert that provides decent heat if the power goes out.

I had two different contractors come out quoting almost $5k just to reline the chimney so suffice to say, I'm doing it myself.

Fireplace is 40 wide at the front, 34 wide at the back, 24 deep, 25 tall.

My buddies would help me install it (one is a GC). Thanks for any advice.

I'm only in my second season of burning with my insert and am certainly no expert, but there are plenty of experts on this site who can guide you. I would make sure you get the biggest insert with the largest firebox you can fit. The other advice I was given before my install in 2015 was to get an insulated liner which I did. However, since I have an exterior chimney...I was also advised by the good folks on this site to make sure I had a block off plate installed and unfortunately, I let the dealer talk me out of it. Big mistake!

I went through my first season with everything going fine in more moderate temps (high 30s/low 40s), but when it started to get frigid outside (mid 20s and below), I had a really hard time keeping my 2000sq ft Center Hall Colonial warm enough and had to run my heat pump a lot...this was very frustrating. In the end many on this site told me I was probably losing a lot of heat to 28ft of cold masonry chimney. So this September I had the dealer install the block off plate (at my expense) and can confidently say the difference is night and day! We had a few cold snaps already this season (mid 20s) and I was easily able to keep the downstairs at 73 to 74 and the upstairs around 70 to 71. This was not possible last season without the block off plate. Good luck!

 

[jatoxico]

Another thought, at 25" height it may be tough but depending on your layout and/or willingness to make modifications it make sense to consider putting a rear venting free standing stove out on the hearth. Better heat transfer to the living space and far less (not) dependent of fans to transfer heat to the room.

 

[thechimneysweep]

My wife's from Northern Illinois, and it gets COLD there. You're going to need some horsepower.

Check out Pacific Energy's Summit Insert at (broken link removed to http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/pacsumin.htm)

Why it works so well when the power's out (broken link removed to http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/hosummitblower.htm)

 

[rwhite]

How many days are your typical outages? No insert will work very well without power but I ran mine for 2 days on a deep cycle battery and an inverter. If your going to need anything beyond that I would suggest multiple batteries or a free standing stove. My Osburn insert probably extended 10" out on to the hearth. It heated okay with Fan off but not great.

 

[Campfires]

How many days are your typical outages? No insert will work very well without power but I ran mine for 2 days on a deep cycle battery and an inverter. If your going to need anything beyond that I would suggest multiple batteries or a free standing stove. My Osburn insert probably extended 10" out on to the hearth. It heated okay with Fan off but not great.

I'm not looking at TEOTWAWKI. Just the random ice storm/snow storm. I want to be able to live in my house and keep it from freezing during an outage. I have a second fireplace in the same room (opposite side) that is large but totally inefficient. It's for looks but I'm considering a backer and grate from "Great Wall of Fire". They are big money, though. I'm almost at low end insert prices for that set up but I want that fireplace to remain for ambiance.

If I'm going to do an insert, it'd be nice to have one that isn't solely relying on electric fans. I hadn't considered the deep cycle battery/inverter idea. I wonder how long my 10k lipo battery packs could power a recirculating fan on an insert. I saw a comment on here about the Napoleon 1402 and Harman inserts doing well without power. What about the inserts that can be used with the door open? Would that negate the blower being inop? I assume the inserts that stick out of the fireplace are the most efficient when the SHTF??

My buddy solely heats his home with a stove so I'm heading over there in a January for a dinner to check it out. He is recommending the stove idea while my other buddy with the insert is undecided. I'm leaning towards the insert just for looks but I honestly haven't looked at stoves. I thought the opening was too low for a stove as the 25 inches is the total opening but then there's a layer of brick in front of that on the floor for fire proofing so I was measuring from the bottom fire brick to the top of the opening.

 

[Campfires]

My wife's from Northern Illinois, and it gets COLD there. You're going to need some horsepower.

Check out Pacific Energy's Summit Insert at (broken link removed to http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/pacsumin.htm)

Why it works so well when the power's out (broken link removed to http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/hosummitblower.htm)

Great links, thank you!

 

[weatherguy]

I lost power for a week due to an early season snow storm and my princess Insert heated just fine. The heat wasn't evenly spread out like it was with the blower but I slept in a t-shirt on the couch in the family room with the stove that week.
I ended up switching to a rear venting free standing stove and it heats better than the insert.

 

[Campfires]

Jscs,

Thanks, I'm okay with running the furnace but I keep it at 65 because I'm a tightwad. That means that sections of the downstairs are 60 while upstairs it's 70. But I can get a cord of ash/oak wood delivered for less than $400 and my buddies are telling me how little wood they use to heat their homes. I use half a face cord in two days with my big fireplace and it warms the lower level 2 degrees. I'm okay doing a roaring fire for parties but I'd like to become more efficient with the fuel yet still have the ambiance of the flame when I'm chilling downstairs. It's just fun for me having my daughter wake up to a fire and go to sleep with a fire burning.

 

[rwhite]

I was afraid I'd miss thr ambiance as well but get a insert with big glass and it was just as good IMO.

 

[Campfires]

I was afraid I'd miss thr ambiance as well but get a insert with big glass and it was just as good IMO.

The fireplace I want to convert is the one that is the focus of the living room. The other one is part of a converted 3 season porch so it's mostly for when people are over or when my daughter and I are having breakfast on the couch facing the lake. I'm guessing an insert that sticks out of the hearth with 3-sided glass would give the heat I'm looking for as well as the ambiance? Can you cook on any inserts?

 

[2fireplacesinSC]

Not sure you would need to redo anything in the chimney if you got an insulated liner. Stove out on the hearth will heat best in no power situation. Lots of insert options though. if you're set on the look of an insert, one that sticks out will heat best without power. Never heard of any insert or stove with 3 sides glass. Heard of stoves with 3 windows (like a bay window, 1 central with 2 small on the sides) but sounds like side windows get dirty quickly. Sounds like you need to think about the look you want, look at quality stove brands, find one that matches the look and get a good install done.

 

[Campfires]

Not sure you would need to redo anything in the chimney if you got an insulated liner. Stove out on the hearth will heat best in no power situation. Lots of insert options though. if you're set on the look of an insert, one that sticks out will heat best without power. Never heard of any insert or stove with 3 sides glass. Heard of stoves with 3 windows (like a bay window, 1 central with 2 small on the sides) but sounds like side windows get dirty quickly. Sounds like you need to think about the look you want, look at quality stove brands, find one that matches the look and get a good install done.

Does this forum interchange the term "stove" and "insert"? What is the consensus here for quality brands? Some of the inserts I've seen look like they are almost completely out of the fire box. Am I confused as to what constitutes a "stove"? I envision a stove as this round appliance with a cook surface on the top i.e. the coal stove from Mr Scrooge's office.

 

[bholler]

Does this forum interchange the term "stove" and "insert"? What is the consensus here for quality brands? Some of the inserts I've seen look like they are almost completely out of the fire box. Am I confused as to what constitutes a "stove"? I envision a stove as this round appliance with a cook surface on the top i.e. the coal stove from Mr Scrooge's office.

Well inserts are still stoves but not all stoves are inserts.

 

[rwhite]

Does this forum interchange the term "stove" and "insert"? What is the consensus here for quality brands? Some of the inserts I've seen look like they are almost completely out of the fire box. Am I confused as to what constitutes a "stove"? I envision a stove as this round appliance with a cook surface on the top i.e. the coal stove from Mr Scrooge's office.

Inserts (all to my knowledge) do not have legs and are designed to be slid into a fireplace opening. They will almost always have a blower. They have an outer steel jacket that basically holds the heat so the blower can move it into the room. They also usually have a surround that covers the remaining gap in the fireplace.

Stoves will have a leg or pedestal of some sort and are free standing. Most often if you see these associated with a fireplace they are just sitting in front of it, but some folks do push them in.

Do some searches and you'll see plenty of examples of both. There are also some sticky' s on the forum that are very informative.

 

[rwhite]

Pretty hard to find an insert with any useable cooking surface. Often because of clearances and hearth sizes your fairly limited on how far it can stick out of the fireplace.

 

[jharkin]

Another vote for a freestanding stove hearth mounted if it will fit. Even if its a blower equipped stove it will still radiate a lot of heat in a power outage and you wont have to mess with generators or inverters to keep the blower powered.

Jscs,

Thanks, I'm okay with running the furnace but I keep it at 65 because I'm a tightwad. That means that sections of the downstairs are 60 while upstairs it's 70. But I can get a cord of ash/oak wood delivered for less than $400 and my buddies are telling me how little wood they use to heat their homes.

You said its a gas furnace? Is that natural gas or propane?

If its natural gas, its costing you a LOT less to heat wit the furnace than it is with $400/cord wood. If you are doing this for cost savings rather than comfort you need to be realistic and run the numbers.

I have natural gas and even at high New England gas rates, the only reason wood is cheaper is because I scrounge mine for free.