Looking to upgrade to wood furnace!

[hbryant123]

This is my first post! I currently have a king wood coal circulator. It's worked good for us for a good while we want to upgrade to a wood furnace. Main issues with it is it takes up a large space in our already small living room and it creates a mess with bringing in wood. I have a basement with chimney access ide like to set up a wood furnace down there and keep the mess on the concrete floor and be able to heat our home thoroughly we have a 1200 square foot house.

Growing up we have a royal wood furnace that seemed to work well and my father still uses.

I have been reading on these epa stoves? Is an epa stove the way to go? Do they really use less wood? I do not heat 100 percent on wood it's more of a supplement heat for really cold times I live in central indiana.

Looking for advice and whatbstove would be best epa stove or good older stove

Thanks

 

[kennyp2339]

Kuuma seems to be the USA leader in the wood furnace department, they've figured out how to make the cleanest most efficant ones on the market

 

[brenndatomu]

have been reading on these epa stoves? Is an epa stove the way to go? Do they really use less wood? I do not heat 100 percent on wood it's more of a supplement heat for really cold times I live in central indiana.

Yup, the way to go.
They do require dry wood though...none of this cut in the summer and use in the coming winter stuff. You need to have wood that is cut/split/stacked (CSS) for 2-3 years depending on what species it is and your location.
You have about 2 weeks to buy anything other than a Kuuma...which is the best out there, but the most expensive too.
A Drolet Tundra II or Heatmax II would easily heat a 1200 ft house...maybe even the smaller Heatpak.
MFP has a great clearance sale price on all models until May 15 when they can no longer sell non EPA 2020 certified models. They are rumored to have new models that are 2020 approved coming out this fall...but who knows what they will be like, or priced like.

DROLET - TUNDRA II WOOD FURNACE

Tundra II, a completely re-engineered high efficiency wood furnace that meets the new EPA (CSA B415.1-10) clean-air standards. This enhanced furnace will provide considerable energy savings over a conventional wood furnace, using up to 30% less wood for t

myfireplaceproducts.com

Kuuma will also have their smaller VF 200 back in production soon hopefully, I think the larger VF100 would be too large for your house, unless it is a leaky old barn.

 

[hbryant123]

Thanks guys for the posts. I feel like I've learned alot. I will be going with an epa stove. Next question I have is how does one hook this stove up the thr hvac system? I'm upgrading my duct work soon anyhow. I feel like there must be a smart way to utilize both the wood furnace and gas furnace with the same plenum and ducting maybe with one way flaps?

 

[brenndatomu]

I feel like there must be a smart way to utilize both the wood furnace and gas furnace with the same plenum and ducting maybe with one way flaps?

You've got the idea...one way flaps, or in my case I have (1) one way flap, or gravity damper, and (1) power closed (NO) damper on the return side of the Kuuma, so to make sure that the wood furnace heat can gravity flow in the event of a power outage or blower failure...gotta remember, the fire doesn't shut off when the power goes off like with a gas or oil furnace.
Hopefully you can find someone to do the duct work that is knowledgeable on proper setup for a solid fuel furnace...many people find it tough to get someone willing to do it, or that knows what they are doing...everybody I talked to wanted big bucks...I ended up going DIY.
Good timing on doing an update on the ducts though!

 

[kennyp2339]

This thread sounds like a lot of fun, OP please keep this alive as you go along, I think the biggest thing to do right now is to look at your chimney, prepare to install a liner if its existing masonry, make the plan now, whether you have to knock flue tiles out, or install a new crock higher for the furnace venting, then choose a location that would be near your existing main trunk for duct work so you can easily tap into that and not have to rework the whole system, unless that system is very old or messed up. Be prepared to insulate the crap out of the new duct work to, that's new code US hvac wide.
This website also has lots of reviews on stoves & furnaces, use the search tool and type in the model of what your looking at and see what others that have installed it have said about there furnace. Be advised that newer 2020 compliant stoves are going to have limited info, with exception of the Kuuma, I don't think theres a lot of other companies that have had something in service that was complaint.

 

[maple1]

Along with the practicality of basement layout, suitability of the chimney for a wood furnace should be verified. Well, should be first actually. Not all chimneys are capable. Got more info on that?

 

[brenndatomu]

insulate the crap out of the new duct work to, that's new code US hvac wide.

First I've heard of this...what's that about, efficientcy? I know for me I want my ducts to warm the floor and the basement some...and I have a HPWH, it's more efficient in a warmer basement too.
Good point on getting the chimney straight now...EPA stoves/furnaces generally don't like masonry chimneys...not enough heat wasted to make them work well.

 

[JRHAWK9]

I feel like there must be a smart way to utilize both the wood furnace and gas furnace with the same plenum and ducting maybe with one way flaps?

I'm assuming you have metal ducts? These are required.

I have my systems control setup to where both my LP and wood furnaces can "dance" together as one happy family. My LP furnace blower and wood furnace blower can both run at the same time if ever needed. For example, if we ever have some crazy long term extreme cold weather were the wood furnace can't maintain house temp, I can set the LP furnace thermostat to whatever temp I want the house at and my LP furnace will kick on/off as required in order to keep the house at the specified temp, all while the wood furnace is doing it's thing. I did not want a heating system where I could only run one or the other. As I also wanted it idiot proof and functional in the event the LP furnace was ever turned on by accident while I was away when the wood furnace was running.

I don't have my return air hooked up to the main return air of the house and that's done by design, as I'm using a centrally located staircase in the house as my return air. This works great for me.

I have single gravity damper in my LP furnace plenum and a single powered close/spring open powered damper in the supply duct of the wood furnace, positioned right before the duct dumps into the main supply duct of the house. I then have a total of 4 relays (RIB's) I use to control everything.

Here's what my setup does:

Wood furnace blower motor is speed controlled via the high speed tap only when ALL of the following are true.
- Primary low limit temp in wood furnace plenum is met
- LP furnace or AC blower is off
- Emergency secondary snap switch temp in wood furnace plenum NOT met

Wood furnace's low speed winding is supplied 120V when one or the other, or both of the following are true AND the primary low limit temp in wood furnace plenum is met:
- LP blower is on
- Secondary emergency snap temp in wood furnace plenum is met.

I have the secondary emergency snap disk temp set at 180° (the maximum this particular snap switch goes up to).

 

[hbryant123]

I am loving all this good information Chimney is were I'm gonna start. I've got the origional brick 1930s chimney ! I lined it with stainless to the living room, its 6 inch. I have another brand new 6 inch liner the company sent two by mistake and let me keep the second because I was honest and called them about it. So in theory if I can get a quality stainless connector I can have stainless in the basement for little to no money. I cant recall the brand but the liner I have was not cheap and is meant for my purpose.

So what size flue does an epa stove live? I can go up to 8 or 10 inch if needed.

On the subject of wood I've always kept a stock of 1 year seasoned wood. I rotate it out. Burn one half one year burn the other the next and restack eith fresh split.

 

[JRHAWK9]

I am loving all this good information Chimney is were I'm gonna start. I've got the origional brick 1930s chimney ! I lined it with stainless to the living room, its 6 inch. I have another brand new 6 inch liner the company sent two by mistake and let me keep the second because I was honest and called them about it. So in theory if I can get a quality stainless connector I can have stainless in the basement for little to no money. I cant recall the brand but the liner I have was not cheap and is meant for my purpose.

So what size flue does an epa stove live? I can go up to 8 or 10 inch if needed.

On the subject of wood I've always kept a stock of 1 year seasoned wood. I rotate it out. Burn one half one year burn the other the next and restack eith fresh split.

6" in the common size you'd need. Optimally the liner should be insulated....?

1 year seasoned won't cut it, unless you are talking soft woods. Oak, 3 years about to get under 20% MC, depending on conditions....maybe longer.

 

[hbryant123]

6" in the common size you'd need. Optimally the liner should be insulated....?

1 year seasoned won't cut it, unless you are talking soft woods. Oak, 3 years about to get under 20% MC, depending on conditions....maybe longer.

Mine is just a stainless pipe more or less. Do they make them with insulation and multiple layers of steel? At the time I just wanted something better than that old brick chimney. I figured the mortar joints are about shot.

 

[brenndatomu]

Is it flex liner, or stainless singlewall pipe? You don't need anything with multiple layers...other than 1 stainless, and 1 insulation layer.
Either flex or singlewall can work...just get the insulation blanket and wrap it. And yes, they make splice joints specifically for splicing liners together.
And 6" is perfect.

 

[maple1]

A furnace is not a stove.

Sorry, had to say it.

 

[Gbawol42]

Save frustration and really listen to these guys about the seasoned wood. As a guy who just went through the winter with 1 year season wood (probably around 20-25% most of the time) I cannot wait till next year to use wood that will be 2 years old. I had a small pile of 2-3 year old wood and when I used it there was a huge difference in heat output.

These epa stoves really rely on the firebox to maintain a certain temp, which cannot be done if there is excess moisture being evaporated out of the firewood.

 

[hbryant123]

Is it flex liner, or stainless singlewall pipe? You don't need anything with multiple layers...other than 1 stainless, and 1 insulation layer.
Either flex or singlewall can work...just get the insulation blanket and wrap it. And yes, they make splice joints specifically for splicing liners together.
And 6" is perfect.

It is a flex liner I just ran it down the brick chimney without an insulation blanket on it.

 

[hbryant123]

Today I was kinda thinking about my wood heating habits, we generally burn in november december january and february. With the king circulator we tend to burn only when it dips down cold. Nothing feel better than a warm house after freezing all day lol I've been looking at the prices of the epa furnaces like kuuma. They seem pretty salty on price although they look well built. Considering I dont burn 24/7 in the winter could i be better off with an older quality non epa stove ? I will not even consider a hot blast I've heard to much negative on them My fathers royal wood furnace has lasted him decades but it's a wood eating monster!

 

[maple1]

You keep saying stove. Is that what you really mean?

Stove or furnace, I dont think non-EPA would be better.

 

[hbryant123]

You keep saying stove. Is that what you really mean?

Stove or furnace, I dont think non-EPA would be better.

My mistake I meant furnace.

 

[brenndatomu]

could i be better off with an older quality non epa stove ?... but it's a wood eating monster!

Kinda goes hand in hand.
How would you be better off? Get to cut more wood? (some people are really into that!) You secretly wanted to be a chimney sweep and you will get to clean your chimney more often?
If you are concerned about the money, watch for a good deal on lightly used stuff...I haven't bought a brand new one yet...and have had more than a couple of different models now!
About the only non EPA wood furnace that I can think of that people seemed to be fairly consistently satisfied with is the Englander 28-3500...will have to find a used one though...they have been out of production for a couple years now...they are making the newer 28-4000 now...people seem to like those well enough too...but it is also EPA firebox, so if you are against that then...

 

[hbryant123]

Kinda goes hand in hand.
How would you be better off? Get to cut more wood? (some people are really into that!) You secretly wanted to be a chimney sweep and you will get to clean your chimney more often?
If you are concerned about the money, watch for a good deal on lightly used stuff...I haven't bought a brand new one yet...and have had more than a couple of different models now!
About the only non EPA wood furnace that I can think of that people seemed to be fairly consistently satisfied with is the Englander 28-3500...will have to find a used one though...they have been out of production for a couple years now...they are making the newer 28-4000 now...people seem to like those well enough too...but it is also EPA firebox, so if you are against that then...

Haha I agree who wants to cut more wood I was just thinking that since i do not burn wood solely to heat my home i may not reap the rewards of a new epa furnace. It is more of a hobby for me in the cold months I enjoy building a fire and to a degree enjoy cutting and splitting.

 

[sloeffle]

Today I was kinda thinking about my wood heating habits, we generally burn in november december january and february. With the king circulator we tend to burn only when it dips down cold.

I don't burn all of the time like a lot of guys do. I burn when temps get below 32F because the house gets too hot with the wood furnace. During shoulder seasons I might build a fire on the weekends when it's cold in the morning but I'll let it go out by the afternoon. The squeeze isn't worth the juice for my personal situation.

I have an older PSG Caddy, and the only other furnaces I'd even think about getting would be a Kuuma, Tundra or Heatpro. The Tundra and Heatpro's are nice but I'd buy one ASAP. All of the furnaces I listed are EPA approved. IMHO - the Kuuma is the top of the heap amongst the furnaces I listed. Once you get ahead in cutting firewood you'll never want to burn a non-EPA wood burning appliance ( furnace, stove, and boiler ) again.

 

[Highbeam]

Most of us do this as a hobby. A hobby that saves us money and if you’re into that environmental stuff is carbon neutral. That’s all the more reason to get a modern furnace that is efficient, clean burning, and effective.

The sweet spot right now is the Drolet line. As you noted, there is quite a price jump for the Kuuma. If you end up enjoying this hobby more as most of us do then you can always upgrade later.

 

[brenndatomu]

Most of us do this as a hobby. A hobby that saves us money and if you’re into that environmental stuff is carbon neutral. That’s all the more reason to get a modern furnace that is efficient, clean burning, and effective.

The sweet spot right now is the Drolet line. As you noted, there is quite a price jump for the Kuuma. If you end up enjoying this hobby more as most of us do then you can always upgrade later.

I enjoy cutting wood...4-5 cord per year...or a bit more if I have the time and an opportune score comes up...but If I had to cut 10 cord or more to keep up, then that just starts to seem more like "chores" to me...much harder to get 3 years ahead too!
As for upgrading later...you can, but depending on your house, and how accessible the basement is, that can be a lot of work (and/or money, especially if you have to hire ductwork/etc done) take it from me...BTDT, got the merit badge. Fortunately for me, I have a walkout basement and was able to DIY everything, except the ductwork with the old Yukon Husky when it went in back in 2012...everything since has been done "in house"

 

[Highbeam]

I enjoy cutting wood...4-5 cord per year...or a bit more if I have the time and an opportune score comes up...but If I had to cut 10 cord or more to keep up, then that just starts to seem more like "chores" to me...much harder to get 3 years ahead too!
As for upgrading later...you can, but depending on your house, and how accessible the basement is, that can be a lot of work (and/or money, especially if you have to hire ductwork/etc done) take it from me...BTDT, got the merit badge. Fortunately for me, I have a walkout basement and was able to DIY everything, except the ductwork with the old Yukon Husky went in back in 2012...everything since has been done "in house"

I was definitely trying to suggest getting a modern epa furnace now and possibly upgrading to a kuma later. I would not suggest a pre epa model if for no other reason than a lack of a viewing window!