Lopi Endeavor: Normal to see 650-725 stovetop temps?

[Christopix]

The title says it all pretty much.

Had the Endeavor burning since middle of October. Wood measures with a moisture meeter (included with the stove) at 16% to 22% with the occasional 28%'er (split these ones up into smaller splits). Stove is in the basement with a center of the house chimney which is lined. Chimney goes up two floors beyond the basement.

All of my experience burning wood up to this year has been with an old Non-EPA All-Nighter. It seems that when I settle the Endeavor into cruising for most any burn consisting of 4-5 splits on a 300-400 deg coal bed, my stove temps always climb to the high 600's and often mid 700's. I close down the air control as far as 3/4 closed, sometimes a little more, yielding a very lazy flame (but active secondaries). I find if I close the air control down much further, the fire sorta seems to stall.

I've been measuring my temps with a Kintrex IR thermometer.
Single wall pipe leads 20 inches from the top of the stove to a 90 then 13.5 inches to the chimney thimble into the rectangular SS lined chimney which is capped approximately 3 feet above the peak of the roof.

Are these temps normal for this stove? I'm able to keep it from running away on me but it is awfully close to Lopi's 800 degree kill your warrantee mark. I see so many people cruising their stoves closer to 500-600. I'd love to be able to get the long burns I'm getting at some lower temperatures. Is that even possible with this stove?

Thoughts?

 

[webbie]

Those temps are fine! Lopi knows good and well that you can't keep a stove under 800 degrees for every moment of it's burning cycles - those temps are given as a goal. That is, when temps go over that, consider cutting down the air inlet, using smaller loads of woods, etc......

It's a regular thing to floor the mag thermometers on single wall steel plate or cast stoves - that means about 900 degrees. I'm not saying to burn in that range, just that it often cannot be helped...for short periods.

 

[Christopix]

Those temps are fine! Lopi knows good and well that you can't keep a stove under 800 degrees for every moment of it's burning cycles - those temps are given as a goal. That is, when temps go over that, consider cutting down the air inlet, using smaller loads of woods, etc......

It's a regular thing to floor the mag thermometers on single wall steel plate or cast stoves - that means about 900 degrees. I'm not saying to burn in that range, just that it often cannot be helped...for short periods.

Wow! No kidding!

Well, I'm not letting it get over 800 deg stovetop as measured with my IR thermometer but it sure gets close. My single wall stove pipe hangs around 300-425'ish during most of the burn (again measured with an IR thermometer). It would be nice to get the Endeavor to cruse at a lower temp, maybe 550-600 on a full load while still maintaining a clean, flaming burn. I didn't know if I was doing something wrong to contribute to these high temps. Guess not based upon what you are saying.

 

[webbie]

Efficient stoves ends up having temps as high as 1800+ inside the actual burn chamber - if you think about it, it's very tough to keep those temps from getting out! So most designs attempt to get them out an spread them out, so they don't build up.

Some stove designs proved too hot - some of the earlier vermont castings downdraft stoves virtually melted their own castings! Most of this involves design of the original product. Sure, some people go overboard burning kiln dried lumber scraps, etc. - but if you have a fairly normal setup and decent wood, it's highly unlikely much is going to happen to the stove except for normal wear and tear.

 

[lopiliberty]

Completely normal. My liberty seems to like 700 to 750 for good cruising temp. 750 and climbing I start to take notice. Just means your burning good dry wood Below is a link to isipwater's thread as to where a Lopi tech told him place the thermometer on the stovetop
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/temp-spike-problem-solved-thermometer-location.121553/

 

[eclecticcottage]

Completely normal. My liberty seems to like 700 to 750 for good cruising temp. 750 and climbing I start to take notice.

Ditto for the Republic 1750, sister stove to the Endeavor.

 

[lopiliberty]

The only bad thing I can see with running those temperatures is not always do you need that kind of heat

 

[eclecticcottage]

The only bad thing I can see with running those temperatures is not always do you need that kind of heat

Tell me about it!! (Is running a 2.2 CuFt stove in a 700 sq ft house)

 

[isipwater]

I just started using a wood stove for the first time in Oct/2013 with a new Lopi Endeavor and was having the same worries about temperature spikes. So, I called Lopi and was told NOT to take the temp readings from the hottest part of the stove (center/middle) of the cook-top. That location is not representative of the overall temperature of the stove itself.

Instead, Glen at Lopi recommends that the BEST location to measure temperature is actually on the right or left side of the cook top or at the front of the cook top, above the door. The Endeavor manual actually echos Glen's advice, advising to measure temps above the door as well. Once I moved my magnet Inferno thermometer to the front of the cook-top, above the door, I am now usually cruising at 500 - 600F.

Learning the proper thermometer/temperature reading location really gave me much more peace of mind!

 

[eclecticcottage]

In case anyone with a Republic finds this thread, Lopi suggests the following for thermo placement "If you are uncertain of over-firing conditions, we suggest placing a stove thermometer (e.g. Rutland® Model 710) directly over the door on the stove top". Which really doesn't give a great explaination, I imagine they don't mean on the little lip that comes out over the top and probably centered because if you use the blower it blows from both sides and will effect the top temps.

 

[Christopix]

I just started using a wood stove for the first time in Oct/2013 with a new Lopi Endeavor and was having the same worries about temperature spikes. So, I called Lopi and was told NOT to take the temp readings from the hottest part of the stove (center/middle) of the cook-top. That location is not representative of the overall temperature of the stove itself.

Instead, Glen at Lopi recommends that the BEST location to measure temperature is actually on the right or left side of the cook top or at the front of the cook top, above the door. The Endeavor manual actually echos Glen's advice, advising to measure temps above the door as well. Once I moved my magnet Inferno thermometer to the front of the cook-top, above the door, I am now usually cruising at 500 - 600F.

Learning the proper thermometer/temperature reading location really gave me much more peace of mind!

Wow! All I can say here is Wow! I've learned a lot from this little thread!

This is encouraging news isipwater, as the manuals suggestion of putting the thermometer above the door lead me to believe that it should be in the center/middle of the cooktop. In my mind, it would make sense to measure the hottest part of the stove as any over-firing damage would occur there first. No? Well, if Lopi said to measure from a location closer to the door top and/or sides, that certainly does make my temp measurements lower.

Maybe in Lopi's next iteration of their manual, they should give an illustration of where to place the thermometer vs just stating "directly over the door on the stove top."

This was helpful everyone! Thank you!

 

[dhumohr]

We've had a 2nd Lopi Endeavor for over ten years (first one for about 11 years), but are just now finding out that we've probably been measuring temps wrong--we put the gauge on the stove pipe about 24 inches above the stove. We try to have a hot burn every day, that is getting temps up to about 500, but measuring it on the wrong place?? When I put the gauge on the stove top, the lower horizontal surface, at the left side, the temps range about 50 to 100 degrees hotter. This is with the side closed down and the front all the way open. So, is this the difference we should be seeing? Should we be doing our hot burn according to THAT temp? We've been very careful to do this, as we've been afraid to build up too much creosote, and every year when the chimney sweep comes to clean, he says we're doing really well.

But here's the thing. We've been getting really short burns. We usually start out in the morning with everything open all the way to reload and get the fire going. Then when we've gotten our "hot burn" for about 30 minutes, we close the side and leave the front open. We have to fill up every 2-3 hours this way. Today I tried closing the front about 2/3 of the way, which left us with lots and lots of glowing coals, but not enough heat from the stove. Still needing to fill up with the same duration of time. We have a very old farmhouse, about 1000 sq ft on two floors, keep the door to upstairs closed, and we've also been using polar fleece "curtains" in the doorways to close off about half the house. We looked at the specs for the Endeavor, and it says it heats up to 2200 sq ft. and gets 10 to 12 hour burns.

We're burning ash right now (split last fall), and thought that would help, since we'd been burning a mix of unseasoned wood before. No appreciable difference, though the firs starts up nicely quick. Just loaded it up mostly full, front and side open, temp of 425 on stove pipe--525 on stove.

Night closing side all the way, front closed about 75%, lots of nice coals in morning but house quite cool--about 60. During day sometimes gets to 70 in stove room or higher if burning hot. Rooms adjacent about 58.

If we're getting good secondary burns, it seems from what I'm reading that the stove pipe temp should be quite a bit cooler than the stove top temp???

Advice? Help?

 

[isipwater]

For proper thermometer placement, see the following photos:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/best-thermometer-location.121394/#post-1625959

 

[dhumohr]

Ok, I put the thermo in the place specified (middle front of the lower horizontal surface) and it is reading about 650 on the stove. Is this a hot burn, or should I be measuring the temp in the stovepipe, since that's where the creosote buildup would be created? We just want to be safe.

And I guess I'm not being clear at all. We can't understand why we can't get the house warm throughout most of it unless we keep the stove cranked up, and why our burn times are so short? If we don't keep reloading, the temp of the fire and subsequently the temp of the house fluctuate more than it seems they should?

 

[Chimney Smoke]

I have a Republic 1750 and my flue and stovetop temps are very similar to yours. After a reload on a solid coal bed the flue climbs to around 400 and stovetop around 600-650 and hold for the first hour or so. The flue temp then drops to around 325-325 for the remainder of the burn. I get similar results with my air control. About 3/4 closed seems to be perfect for good temps and relatively long burn times.

 

[dhumohr]

I have a Republic 1750 and my flue and stovetop temps are very similar to yours. After a reload on a solid coal bed the flue climbs to around 400 and stovetop around 600-650 and hold for the first hour or so. The flue temp then drops to around 325-325 for the remainder of the burn. I get similar results with my air control. About 3/4 closed seems to be perfect for good temps and relatively long burn times.

Chimney Smoke, how long do you consider relatively long burn times?? More than 2-3 hours? What kind of temps are you able to achieve in your house? We're only heating probably 500 sq ft with half the downstairs blocked off, but we're not getting temps very high--55 in other rooms to 70 or 75 in the dining room where the stove is.

Thanks for your help!

 

[isipwater]

Ok, I put the thermo in the place specified (middle front of the lower horizontal surface) and it is reading about 650 on the stove. Is this a hot burn, or should I be measuring the temp in the stovepipe, since that's where the creosote buildup would be created? We just want to be safe.

And I guess I'm not being clear at all. We can't understand why we can't get the house warm throughout most of it unless we keep the stove cranked up, and why our burn times are so short? If we don't keep reloading, the temp of the fire and subsequently the temp of the house fluctuate more than it seems they should?

The Lopi Endeavor manual states not to fire it above 800F. I like to burn mine in the 650-700 range. And yes, the middle front flat of the stove stop is the proper placement. If it is not in the front and instead put in the middle, you will get alarmed and think your stove is getting way to hot.

As for long burn times, I often have hot coals to get the next load going after a 10 hour burn. I use mostly oak that is seasoned to 20% moisture, tested with a moisture meter on a fresh split. Also, I pack the firebox full of wood, only leaving about 1 inch from the burn tubes. I burn with the air intake all the open until the thermo reads 400-450 and then begin closing it in stages until I am around 650-700. Then I watch it from there to make sure things don't get too hot, until the thermo starts decreasing (about 2 hrs from start of fire).

For overnight, I start the fire at 7pm and go to bed at 9:30-10ish with the thermo at 550 and the air intake open 1 inch.

Other things that will affect performance are:
-Stove and pipe placement (does pipe run mostly inside or outside house)
-Does pipe have any bends?

 

[dhumohr]

The Lopi Endeavor manual states not to fire it above 800F. I like to burn mine in the 650-700 range. And yes, the middle front flat of the stove stop is the proper placement. If it is not in the front and instead put in the middle, you will get alarmed and think your stove is getting way to hot.

As for long burn times, I often have hot coals to get the next load going after a 10 hour burn. I use mostly oak that is seasoned to 20% moisture, tested with a moisture meter on a fresh split. Also, I pack the firebox full of wood, only leaving about 1 inch from the burn tubes. I burn with the air intake all the open until the thermo reads 400-450 and then begin closing it in stages until I am around 650-700. Then I watch it from there to make sure things don't get too hot, until the thermo starts decreasing (about 2 hrs from start of fire).

For overnight, I start the fire at 7pm and go to bed at 9:30-10ish with the thermo at 550 and the air intake open 1 inch.

Other things that will affect performance are:
-Stove and pipe placement (does pipe run mostly inside or outside house)
-Does pipe have any bends?

isipwater, when you get up in the mornings, has the temp dropped a lot (more than 10 degrees?). the stove pipe does have bends, a 90, followed by a 45 and then another 90 into the brick chimney, which goes through a room upstairs and then out for a couple of feet. We do have a pretty good draft here despite that though and never have trouble getting things going at any time of the day. Stove is located in dining room and standing at stove looking out, there is are two rooms which have doorways. Past them is a hallway and a bedroom. Behind the stove is the kitchen, with another room off to one side. it's a good location for the stove for circulation through the house, only sharp turn is to kitchen, which has insulated stove pipe going through it.

During the day, do you get 10 hour burn times when home, keeping the house warm enough? Also are you using the fan that comes with the Endeavor? We did for the first couple years, but it died at that time and we didn't want to replace it if we were going to have the same trouble again.

I think the Lopi will be seeking a new home, and we're going to go with a Woodstock Progress Hybrid which retains heat for longer and hopefully will do a better job of distributing the heat throughout the house, but I wanted to be sure we weren't doing things really wrong with the Endeavor first. We could move the stove and put new pipe straight up through the second floor, but I don't think that would help enough.

 

[Christopix]

Ok, I put the thermo in the place specified (middle front of the lower horizontal surface) and it is reading about 650 on the stove. Is this a hot burn, or should I be measuring the temp in the stovepipe, since that's where the creosote buildup would be created? We just want to be safe.

And I guess I'm not being clear at all. We can't understand why we can't get the house warm throughout most of it unless we keep the stove cranked up, and why our burn times are so short? If we don't keep reloading, the temp of the fire and subsequently the temp of the house fluctuate more than it seems they should?

I think you are referring to getting the flue & chimney hot enough at least once a day in effort to keep down the build up of creosote. I have two thermometers on my Endeavor: One in the exact placement Isipwater discusses from his chat with Lopi (huge change in the ease of burning my stove since adopting this position btw) and another located on my stove pipe about 20-24 inches above the stove. It is here on the stove pipe you should be measuring your flue/chimney temps. I run my flue thermometer close to 500'ish at least once a day. During this burn, my stove top temps are inching close to 700'ish and I keep double sure to stay on my toes to avoid the stove top getting much higher than 725-750 (this measured at the placement Isipwater discusses).

 

[isipwater]

The Lopi Endeavor manual states not to fire it above 800F. I like to burn mine in the 650-700 range. And yes, the middle front flat of the stove stop is the proper placement. If it is not in the front and instead put in the middle, you will get alarmed and think your stove is getting way to hot.

As for long burn times, I often have hot coals to get the next load going after a 10 hour burn. I use mostly oak that is seasoned to 20% moisture, tested with a moisture meter on a fresh split. Also, I pack the firebox full of wood, only leaving about 1 inch from the burn tubes. I burn with the air intake all the open until the thermo reads 400-450 and then begin closing it in stages until I am around 650-700. Then I watch it from there to make sure things don't get too hot, until the thermo starts decreasing (about 2 hrs from start of fire).

For overnight, I start the fire at 7pm and go to bed at 9:30-10ish with the thermo at 550 and the air intake open 1 inch.

isipwater, when you get up in the mornings, has the temp dropped a lot (more than 10 degrees?). the stove pipe does have bends, a 90, followed by a 45 and then another 90 into the brick chimney, which goes through a room upstairs and then out for a couple of feet. We do have a pretty good draft here despite that though and never have trouble getting things going at any time of the day. Stove is located in dining room and standing at stove looking out, there is are two rooms which have doorways. Past them is a hallway and a bedroom. Behind the stove is the kitchen, with another room off to one side. it's a good location for the stove for circulation through the house, only sharp turn is to kitchen, which has insulated stove pipe going through it.

During the day, do you get 10 hour burn times when home, keeping the house warm enough? Also are you using the fan that comes with the Endeavor? We did for the first couple years, but it died at that time and we didn't want to replace it if we were going to have the same trouble again.

I think the Lopi will be seeking a new home, and we're going to go with a Woodstock Progress Hybrid which retains heat for longer and hopefully will do a better job of distributing the heat throughout the house, but I wanted to be sure we weren't doing things really wrong with the Endeavor first. We could move the stove and put new pipe straight up through the second floor, but I don't think that would help enough.

In the morning the stove is around 200F with all of the wood burned and a few coals to get the burn going.

My house is one level ranch that is 1500 SQFT that is well insulated.

Your stove setup and draft situation sounds fine. What kind of wood are you burning? Have you tested the moisture level of the wood with a meter on a fresh split at room temp. Also, are you filling up the firebox all the way, one inch from the burn tubes?

 

[dhumohr]

I think you are referring to getting the flue & chimney hot enough at least once a day in effort to keep down the build up of creosote. I have two thermometers on my Endeavor: One in the exact placement Isipwater discusses from his chat with Lopi (huge change in the ease of burning my stove since adopting this position btw) and another located on my stove pipe about 20-24 inches above the stove. It is here on the stove pipe you should be measuring your flue/chimney temps. I run my flue thermometer close to 500'ish at least once a day. During this burn, my stove top temps are inching close to 700'ish and I keep double sure to stay on my toes to avoid the stove top getting much higher than 725-750 (this measured at the placement Isipwater discusses).

Great, Christopix, that was one of the things I was referring to , and it answers that perfectly! For the rest of the day, how often do you reload in order to keep the temp of the house warm?

 

[dhumohr]

In the morning the stove is around 200F with all of the wood burned and a few coals to get the burn going.

My house is one level ranch that is 1500 SQFT that is well insulated.

Your stove setup and draft situation sounds fine. What kind of wood are you burning? Have you tested the moisture level of the wood with a meter on a fresh split at room temp. Also, are you filling up the firebox all the way, one inch from the burn tubes?

Isipwater, in the morning, what's the temp at your house like in the room with the stove? In the rest of the house? I don't want to get up to find 60 degrees where my stove is, because then the rest of the house is around 50. That means running a little ceramic heater in the bathroom to take a shower or turning the furnace on, which I don't want to do.

Don't have a moisture meter yet, but I'll be getting one. I'm putting 5-6 splits in the firebox--since they're not uniform, that's about what I can fit. My splits the past few days have been larger because we just took delivery on some ash, split last November. It catches quite well and burns without hissing or spitting, but I don't know what the exact moisture is. Today the house is warmer, but then the outside temp is about 48, so it ought to be.

Thanks so much, all of you, for your patience and your help!

 

[Grisu]

But here's the thing. We've been getting really short burns. We usually start out in the morning with everything open all the way to reload and get the fire going. Then when we've gotten our "hot burn" for about 30 minutes, we close the side and leave the front open. We have to fill up every 2-3 hours this way.

Your short burn times are no surprise. You have the air fully open which means the fire will burn really well but a lot of the heat will go up your flue.

Today I tried closing the front about 2/3 of the way, which left us with lots and lots of glowing coals, but not enough heat from the stove.

That is what you should do every time. Once the fire is established and you closed the bypass (top lever) you start closing down the air control in the bottom in stages. Push it in until the flames become "lazy" (slow moving), wait approx. 5 min until they are strong again, push the air in again some and continue so stepwise until the air control is maybe 3/4 to fully closed. At some point you should see a lot of flames in the top of the firebox; those are your secondaries, which will give you more heat and longer burn times than keeping a roaring fire. If the fire goes out when you do that and you just have coals I suspect your wood is not dry. When has it been split and stacked (at best single rows with lots of sun and wind exposure): fall 2012 or fall 2013? Do you have a moisture meter to test how well it is seasoned?

I think the Lopi will be seeking a new home, and we're going to go with a Woodstock Progress Hybrid which retains heat for longer and hopefully will do a better job of distributing the heat throughout the house, but I wanted to be sure we weren't doing things really wrong with the Endeavor first.

I am pretty sure your stove could do better than what you describe. It should be able to heat 1000 sqft. even when the insulation is not that great. The Progress is an option for longer burn times and more heat but will not help with the heat distribution. That is dependent of how well the warm air moves around your house.

 

[Chimney Smoke]

Chimney Smoke, how long do you consider relatively long burn times?? More than 2-3 hours? What kind of temps are you able to achieve in your house? We're only heating probably 500 sq ft with half the downstairs blocked off, but we're not getting temps very high--55 in other rooms to 70 or 75 in the dining room where the stove is.

Thanks for your help!

My wood right now is mostly maple with a little bit of white birch and some red oak mixed in. When I'm home and burning a little hotter than normal I get 3-4 hours of hot active burn into the coal stage. I then rake all my coals flat and open the air up for about 45 minutes and then I reload. If I load full for overnight, I generally have about 200 degree stovetop temps after 8 hours. I rake the coal around and crack the door for a few minutes and then reload before heading to work. The stove is currently in the basement heating a 1500 SQ cape. On the weekends when I feed it regularly we keep the first floor around 65-66. This is comfortable for us, I prefer the house a little cooler. The furnace usually kicks on once or twice through the night. Next year I'll be insulating the basement walls and see if that puts a bit more heat upstairs. This is the first winter in our new house so it was a bit of a learning curve. We've burned around 300-350 gallons of oil since last August - furnace supplies hot water as well.

 

[dhumohr]

Your short burn times are no surprise. You have the air fully open which means the fire will burn really well but a lot of the heat will go up your flue.



That is what you should do every time. Once the fire is established and you closed the bypass (top lever) you start closing down the air control in the bottom in stages. Push it in until the flames become "lazy" (slow moving), wait approx. 5 min until they are strong again, push the air in again some and continue so stepwise until the air control is maybe 3/4 to fully closed. At some point you should see a lot of flames in the top of the firebox; those are your secondaries, which will give you more heat and longer burn times than keeping a roaring fire. If the fire goes out when you do that and you just have coals I suspect your wood is not dry. When has it been split and stacked (at best single rows with lots of sun and wind exposure): fall 2012 or fall 2013? Do you have a moisture meter to test how well it is seasoned?



I am pretty sure your stove could do better than what you describe. It should be able to heat 1000 sqft. even when the insulation is not that great. The Progress is an option for longer burn times and more heat but will not help with the heat distribution. That is dependent of how well the warm air moves around your house.

Thanks, Grisu. I can try what you're talking about. We've tried all sorts of things but using steps the way you describe isn't one of them. I know about the secondaries, but haven't seen them a lot. We don't have a lot of roaring fires but in order to keep the temp of the room and other rooms comfortable, we've burned it more open than we wanted to. The fire doesn't go out totally when we close up, it just slows down and the room temp lowers. This ash we're burning now was split and stacked in Nov 2013.

In terms of heat distribution, I understand what you're saying, and it seems interesting that in the next rooms with doorways open, the temps would be a good 10 degrees cooler. The warm air doesn't need to make a turn to get into them, it's a straight and short shot. I can understand the air flow being restricted to the back room, where it needs to make a 180 degree turn back on itself, but not in those two rooms.