Lopi vs Empire, two local installers... help us decide!

[rurallife]

We've had two local companies out to bid installing a wood insert and liner in our existing wood fireplace/chimney. Here's where we're at with their prices and other considerations--pros and cons both ways, I guess. Would appreciate any insights as we make this big decision! It appears the bid difference of nearly a thousand dollars is entirely due to product cost, Lopi Evergreen being substantially more expensive than Empire Archway, and we will max out the $2000 tax credit in either case. But there are other factors with each installer. (FYI we're aiming to heat as much as possible of our 2,000 sq ft one-level living space from living room at one end of the house, knowing we'll likely be running our propane-fueled furnace to make up the difference here in the lower Midwest. Our ducts are exposed in basement ceiling so we may insulate them and run the HVAC fan, as there are two intakes near the ceiling in the fireplace room which might bode well for circulating through house without terrible heat loss via 1976 duct work.)

Company 1: Dealer of Lopi, which we know a lot of people are really happy with. Price to install Lopi Evergreen and liner, including tax BEFORE tax credit: $8,275 (seems high?). Wait time: March 2023 (yikes but maybe standard?). Warranty: Can't remember & they didn't put together a proper estimate with such information, just an email with the total. They suggested extending our 15'2" flu for another $165 which I wasn't impressed with as others have said it's fine as-is. A couple other comments from the young estimator made me think he wasn't as knowledgeable as Company 2 about our various questions and goals both for heat and aesthetics, and he didn't flag concerns about our two chimneys that Company 2 pointed out (i.e. bit of bad flashing, spalling of stone, 9" liner that should be minimum 10"). But they get great reviews. Family business founded 2007.

Company 2: Dealer of Empire, which I'd never heard of. Price to install liner and Empire Archway 2300, which he said has comparable specs to the Evergreen, BEFORE tax credit which it also qualifies for: $7,382. Wait time: Could install approx 3 weeks from purchase. Warranty: 7-10 years IF you pay them to come out annually for cleaning/inspection. They were overall more professional and corporate in their approach and bid though that doesn't necessarily mean better work. He said they'd install the Lopi Evergreen if we prefer it (which I do at the moment since I'd never heard of Empire) but would likely have us order it since they aren't a dealer of that brand, in which case no warranty option through the local company so manufacturer's only. Techs have CSIA certification, which I know nothing about & Company 1 does not advertise. Area business around 20+ years.

 

[marty319]

I wouldn't be afraid of empire as they are majority owner of sbi

 

[begreen]

The Empire looks like a variation on the Drolet 1800i with a C-Cast baffle instead of vermiculite. I don't see why one would pay extra for the dealer warranty when the stove's warranty covers most everything.

 

[marty319]

The stoves from empire look pretty decent

 

[stoveliker]

15 ft may be the absolute minimum. But you could add later if draft is poor (smoke roll out).

Single floor is tough; heat wants to go up. Best to post a floor plan sketch; a stove big enough for that SQ ft may heat you out of the room if you can't move enough heat. Doing that thru ducts is often tough. Air intakes should be more than 10 ft away from the stove.

 

[begreen]

SBI stoves in general are easy breathers. If the Empire is the same inside as the Escape 1800 it will work on a 12' liner assuming are no other factors affecting performance. I would pay to extend the flue for the Empire. For the Lopi, I would try it first at 15.5 ft.

 

[Mudgen]

We've had two local companies out to bid installing a wood insert and liner in our existing wood fireplace/chimney. Here's where we're at with their prices and other considerations--pros and cons both ways, I guess. Would appreciate any insights as we make this big decision! It appears the bid difference of nearly a thousand dollars is entirely due to product cost, Lopi Evergreen being substantially more expensive than Empire Archway, and we will max out the $2000 tax credit in either case. But there are other factors with each installer. (FYI we're aiming to heat as much as possible of our 2,000 sq ft one-level living space from living room at one end of the house, knowing we'll likely be running our propane-fueled furnace to make up the difference here in the lower Midwest. Our ducts are exposed in basement ceiling so we may insulate them and run the HVAC fan, as there are two intakes near the ceiling in the fireplace room which might bode well for circulating through house without terrible heat loss via 1976 duct work.)

Company 1: Dealer of Lopi, which we know a lot of people are really happy with. Price to install Lopi Evergreen and liner, including tax BEFORE tax credit: $8,275 (seems high?). Wait time: March 2023 (yikes but maybe standard?). Warranty: Can't remember & they didn't put together a proper estimate with such information, just an email with the total. They suggested extending our 15'2" flu for another $165 which I wasn't impressed with as others have said it's fine as-is. A couple other comments from the young estimator made me think he wasn't as knowledgeable as Company 2 about our various questions and goals both for heat and aesthetics, and he didn't flag concerns about our two chimneys that Company 2 pointed out (i.e. bit of bad flashing, spalling of stone, 9" liner that should be minimum 10"). But they get great reviews. Family business founded 2007.

Company 2: Dealer of Empire, which I'd never heard of. Price to install liner and Empire Archway 2300, which he said has comparable specs to the Evergreen, BEFORE tax credit which it also qualifies for: $7,382. Wait time: Could install approx 3 weeks from purchase. Warranty: 7-10 years IF you pay them to come out annually for cleaning/inspection. They were overall more professional and corporate in their approach and bid though that doesn't necessarily mean better work. He said they'd install the Lopi Evergreen if we prefer it (which I do at the moment since I'd never heard of Empire) but would likely have us order it since they aren't a dealer of that brand, in which case no warranty option through the local company so manufacturer's only. Techs have CSIA certification, which I know nothing about & Company 1 does not advertise. Area business around 20+ years.

Richmond Va Evergreen insert installed yesterday with blower and vent kit for $6.3K. Home and Hearth Shoppe of Mechanicsville. Made deposit commitment late November.

 

[kennyp2339]

I would say trying to get a reputable dealer is probably tougher now then it was 2 years ago, Prices of materials are high, slow to ship, demand is at an all-time high due to higher energy costs and the labor pool is lower due to high business costs, perhaps companies bid jobs that they don't want to do but if there higher they'll do it because they are incentivized by more money.

 

[Mudgen]

I would say trying to get a reputable dealer is probably tougher now then it was 2 years ago, Prices of materials are high, slow to ship, demand is at an all-time high due to higher energy costs and the labor pool is lower due to high business costs, perhaps companies bid jobs that they don't want to do but if there higher they'll do it because they are incentivized by more money.

I had a sense while navigating the half dozen dealers of desirable brands in RVA that only one of them was a solid and trustworthy business and that the rest were probably going to say anything to close a deal. I put a deposit on the stove with them and engaged the best-reviewed sweep in the area for cleaning/inspection prior to installation. In the course of doing his work, I related my dealer experience and he said I was right, that my dealer always did solid work and all the others I talked to would cut corners, sometimes dangerously. He knew this because he sweeps behind them a year or so later and sees what they did and covered up.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

If it was me.. I wouldn't worry about a grand to get a good proven stove.. Id go lopi The evergreen is a good stove for the dollar and Travis ind.. is a reputable businesses. I looked at the evergreen way back when.. Me personally I tend to stay away from newer stuff untill its proven itself.. If you want to lower your utility bills.. you need a stove that your sure will run ... and run all the time

 

[Nevins MHP]

Empire has great warranty support. CSIA is the Chimney Safety Institute of America. It's the educational wing o the National Chimney Sweep Guild. The certification test has a high failure rate. It's hard to find people smart enough to pass the test and dumb enough to be chimney sweeps. I was the top scorer the first time I took it, but I still only scored a 94%. (80% is passing.)

 

[bholler]

Empire has great warranty support. CSIA is the Chimney Safety Institute of America. It's the educational wing o the National Chimney Sweep Guild. The certification test has a high failure rate. It's hard to find people smart enough to pass the test and dumb enough to be chimney sweeps. I was the top scorer the first time I took it, but I still only scored a 94%. (80% is passing.)

Ncsg is no longer associated with csia. Csia threw ncsg out of the building the guild and its members helped build. BTW if you take their class and are halfway decent at testing it is pretty easy. We had a class of 25. One failure and all but 3 were over 90%.

But I dropped csia certification years ago now.

 

[Nevins MHP]

Ncsg is no longer associated with csia. Csia threw ncsg out of the building the guild and its members helped build. BTW if you take their class and are halfway decent at testing it is pretty easy. We had a class of 25. One failure and all but 3 were over 90%.

But I dropped csia certification years ago now.

I hadn't heard about the separation. In my current role, I need Master Hearth Professional from NFI, but I'm not required to keep a chimney sweep certification. I never went to the school, but it looks like a great facility from the photos. I did send an employee there once, and he passed, gave notice, and went to work for one of my competitors.

 

[bholler]

I hadn't heard about the separation. In my current role, I need Master Hearth Professional from NFI, but I'm not required to keep a chimney sweep certification. I never went to the school, but it looks like a great facility from the photos. I did send an employee there once, and he passed, gave notice, and went to work for one of my competitors.

Yes a great facility built and paid for by donations from guild members. Who now no longer have access to it unless we pay for csia certification.

I never went there either there were certification classes and testing all over the country put on by csia and ncsg.

Ncsg now has certified chimney professionals testing and certification at about 1/4 the price for initial certification and about 1/8 the price for maintaining certification.