Making air adjustments on EPA stove....

[scoooter]

Help, I have read and read and read and am now more confused than ever! :-S

I have a Buck 21 non cat epa stove and I have burned one fire in it, to start the curing process. I burned it up to 350 and then closed the air somewhat, but wasn't sure how much to close it. The manual says nothing about it! ARGH!

Here's what I did, keep in mind I was only trying to get it up to like 350 to start curing the paint. The wood I burned was 16% MC poplar and 18% Locust <--- I think (it was harder than a rock!)

Opened the air all the way, put 1/2 a super cedar on the bottom in the center. Made like a small square around it of little poplar pieces (approx 1x2) and then put some bigger spilts like 2x2 criss crossed on top of that and then the one big log on top of everything. Fire started right up and after I had good flames maybe 5 min or so I shut the air down in increments to where the flames were small, and then let it burn out. When all was said and done there was just dusty ash left in the bottom.


1. When do I start closing down the air when I start a fire from a cold stove.

2. What am I supposed to look for when closing it down?

3. When I close it down what am I supposed to keep the flames at? Small and barely there or still stronger....

4. and later on do I need to start gradually opening the air back up while the coals are cooking off? or just when I add the next load of wood?


The firebricks are turning black, not a tan color as I was expecting... I kept going outside and looking but there was no smoke coming out after the initial start up.

Or anywhere that shows videos?

Sorry for all the questions, I just don't want to start off with Creosote!

 

[madrone]

Haven't operated your stove, but it's more or less the same procedure for any non-cat. It sounds like you need to get things hotter before you start shutting down. I let the fire get going with the door open slightly until it's going well. (Stay with the stove, don't go make coffee.) Could be anywhere from 5 to 15 minutes, depending on outside temps and wood. When the entire load is burning, I close the door. After a few minutes, I can shut the air control. How far I shut it depends on how hot the stove has gotten. I'm looking for intense secondaries up top, and a little bit of flame below.

In short, go a little hotter, and shut down a little slower.

 

[GordonShumway]

I am new to this whole wood stove concept but my goal for air control when building a fire with my nc-30 is (temps may differ per stove) I try to get this non-cat stove to 500+. At that point I will close off the air. If at that point i have good secondaries for more then 3-5 mins I figure the stove was warm enough. If the fire burns out open the air back up to full and let burn to a higher temp and try again. 50 degree increments at a time. It has been giving me a good idea of optimum temperature vs optimum efficiency. But like I said I am a complete rookie and I am sure some one here has better advise and I could be doing it all wrong.

 

[begreen]

It sounds like you are doing fine. Take the next fire up to 500, and the next up to 600. With more wood and more heat the blackness will get burnt off. It's quite normal with a cooler fire.

If you are looking for a good video, look at the Efficient Woodstove Operation video here:
(broken link removed to http://www.woodheat.org/videos.htm)

 

[pen]

I like to think of controlling a wood stove a lot like shifting gears in a car. First gear being air control fully open, 5th grear, air control fully closed. To get the vehicle to top speed it's wisest to keep shifting up smoothly and increments (one gear at a time). Try to shift to quickly and the car stalls, same w/ the stove. Leave the thing in too open for too long and you've overrevved (over heated) the stove.

And just like learning to drive a stick, you take the easy roads first. Stick w/ small / medium loads, be around to be able to baby sit it, and soak in all the experience as you go.

you are off to a great start.

pen

 

[basswidow]

When it comes to cold stove start ups - I usually do not take the air down a great deal, until a good coal bed is established. Once I have a good bed of coals, I feed in some larger splits and get them a blaze, then I dial down the air for secondaries to kick into to that lovely orange glow with blue and ghost flames. Sounds like you are doing it right.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Help, I have read and read and read and am now more confused than ever! :-S

You must live in the same state as I do. No, I don't live in MI, I live in the state of confusion!



I have a Buck 21 non cat epa stove and I have burned one fire in it, to start the curing process. I burned it up to 350 and then closed the air somewhat, but wasn't sure how much to close it. The manual says nothing about it! ARGH!

Here's what I did, keep in mind I was only trying to get it up to like 350 to start curing the paint. The wood I burned was 16% MC poplar and 18% Locust <--- I think (it was harder than a rock!)

Opened the air all the way, put 1/2 a super cedar on the bottom in the center. Made like a small square around it of little poplar pieces (approx 1x2) and then put some bigger spilts like 2x2 criss crossed on top of that and then the one big log on top of everything. Fire started right up and after I had good flames maybe 5 min or so I shut the air down in increments to where the flames were small, and then let it burn out. When all was said and done there was just dusty ash left in the bottom.


1. When do I start closing down the air when I start a fire from a cold stove.

That really depends upon the fire, the stove temperature and the flue temperature. How's that for adding to the confusion? lol A lot of this will come with experience but there are some rules of thumb. One is that once the wood gets charred good (a good indication that it is burning well) then we start to dial down the draft. Every stove is different but using ours as an example, it has draft control from 0-4. Usually from a cold stove we will start closing the draft after perhaps 15-20 minutes but many times sooner. That depends upon the fuel you have. When we first start closing the draft we drop it to 2, which is half way. Later we'll close it even more and on ours we can go below the 1 mark once the fire is established. On reloads things happen quicker. If you have good dry wood it can be charred in 5 minutes or less. Many times I have to turn the draft down within 3 or 4 minutes as the flue temperature is up to 500.


2. What am I supposed to look for when closing it down?

Charred wood. If the flame dies, then turn it back up for a while.



3. When I close it down what am I supposed to keep the flames at? Small and barely there or still stronger....

It depends upon what you want. Lots of heat, then fairly good flames. Low heat then low flame.



4. and later on do I need to start gradually opening the air back up while the coals are cooking off? or just when I add the next load of wood?

Yes. We watch and just before it is down to all coals we open the draft full and leave it there. This will help burn down the coals and at this point you don't have to worry about sending too much heat up the chimney.


The firebricks are turning black, not a tan color as I was expecting... I kept going outside and looking but there was no smoke coming out after the initial start up.

Probably your wood is not ideally dry. Let this be a wake-up for next year. You should already have next year's wood split and stacked out in the wind. If you are burning oak, then that needs to be in the stack for 2-3 years before burning.


Or anywhere that shows videos?

Sorry for all the questions, I just don't want to start off with Creosote!

The questions are all good ones and that shows that you will do very well burning wood. You are correct about the creosote. Be sure to check your chimney every month your first couple years of burning wood. After that you will no doubt have better fuel and will know your stove so it wont' be so much of a problem.

Good luck. And don't be afraid to keep the questions coming.

 

[scoooter]

Thanks to all who responded, I will be trying another fire this weekend and will post back here with results and more questions :coolsmile:


After re-reading all the posts, they all have there own points that I can use towards figuring this thing out.

Scott

 

[firefighterjake]

Random thoughts . . .

I don't have a Buck stove, but I do have a secondary burner and I believe the process should be pretty similar.

First off, I would check the manual . . . but 350 degrees F is a bit on the low side in my own stove . . . I mean my stove tends to prefer 400-600 degrees F . . . although truthfully what I use to determine when to start cutting back the air is my probe style thermometer . . . when I'm a few degrees in the "green zone" I'll start cutting back on the air a quarter mark at a time . . . wait for a few minutes . . . watch the fire . . . if the secondaries engage and the fire continues to burn I'll cut it back another quarter mark . . . with my set up and good wood I can eventually shut the air all the way "closed."

Poplar . . . most folks don't particuarly care for this wood. I like it . . . for the shoulder seasons. Locust on the other hand seems to be a very popular wood . . . some folks consider it to be in the Top Five for wood with good BTUs.

To answer your questions . . . ..


1. When do I start closing down the air when I start a fire from a cold stove. Depends . . . some folks go by the stove top temp, others go by the flue temp and others go by their eye . . . as mentioned I like to go by the flue temp . . . but I also do a double check on the stove top temp . . . as long as you're not a) keeping the air all the way open during the entire cycle or b) letting the thermometers go into the "danger zone" you can let the temps rise a bit before you start to cut back . . . in fact I find that if I wait a few extra minutes and let the temps go a little more above the minimum level that the fire works out better.

2. What am I supposed to look for when closing it down? Ideally . . . you will want to see the secondaries kicking in . . . a lot depends on your stove, draft and wood . . . but when you see what appears to be a Portal to Hell opening up in your firebox, BBQ jets streaming out (I never see these though) or Northern Lights bursting into flame in the top third of your firebox while the flames "on" the wood are lazy . . . you're doing well . . . you should also hear the "sounds of heat" as my wife describes it as your stove's metal begins to tink, plink and snap . . . and if you're sitting near the stove you may even notice an increase in the heat. Bad signs that indicate your wood is not as seasoned as you thought or that the stove is not hot enough to sustain the secondary or you've cut back the air too much or too soon: blackening glass, smoke from the chimney, fire is dying out.

3. When I close it down what am I supposed to keep the flames at? Small and barely there or still stronger.... Depends . . . a lot depends on where you are looking, the amount of air, wood, etc. . . . with very good wood typically what I will see in my stove are very few, lazy flames "on" the wood . . . but in the top third of the firebox it looks like I have unleashed a dragon as there is a rolling ball of flames . . . other times I get the small, lazy flames "on" the wood and just the Northern Lights "exploding" into view in the top of the firebox. If I don't cut back the air what I will see are no secondaries, but lots of big, fast moving flames "on" the wood . . .

4. and later on do I need to start gradually opening the air back up while the coals are cooking off? or just when I add the next load of wood? Depends . . . if you need to burn down some coals to make more room . . . open up the air . . . maybe even put a single split on the coals. If however you just need to reload . . . then wait until you put the fresh load on and then open up the air.


The firebricks are turning black, not a tan color as I was expecting... I kept going outside and looking but there was no smoke coming out after the initial start up. No smoke is a good sign . . . don't worry about the brick color at this point . . . this can be a sign . . . but when you are first doing your break in fires there is a good chance they will soot up some . . . later, higher temp fires may "clean" them up.

As for the questions . . . ask away . . . we love to seem a lot smarter than we really are by answering the questions.

 

[CTYank]

Let me also suggest upside-down startup. IOW, fuel flipped vertically from what you describe. Greatly reduces startup emissions.

Load sequence:
Largest wood pieces,
Smaller pieces,
Kindling (v. small splits, branches, twigs, bark, etc. No need to buy stuff.)
Knotted newspaper (individual sheets furled into a long "string" then tied in a single overhand knot.)

Some pieces you may want to be at an angle to pieces below.

Open draft & light the paper. Leave door cracked for at least 10 minutes.

When indicated temp on smokepipe near stove is 250 F, close door.

When that temp rises another 50 F, make first primary draft reduction.

Etc., etc.

Notes:
Gas temp inside smokepipe will be higher than surface.
Hottest part of stovetop is typically (with my non-cat EPA stove) twice that of smokepipe exterior.
Getting smokepipe (and thus flue) temps up-to-speed will maintain draft and firebox temps, generate min exhaust nasties, and reduce likelihood of any nasties condensing in pipe or flue.
Non-contact IR-reading thermometers are a Good Thing.

Enjoy

 

[jaydee]

I have a Buck 21, new this year. Maybe my experience with this baby will help.

My wood is good, but the firebricks can blacken if I keep the temperature on the low side, say 350. I am finding
that it can handle much higher temps quite comfortably.

I use a hand held infrared thermometer: when aimed at the side of the stove (since the top is insulated, I don't measure it),
the temperature has gotten up to 700 degrees without harm, but I prefer a range of between 450 - 650.

The higher temps will burn off that black!

What I've learned to do is build the first fire and not worry too much about easing the air back, though I might a little. Once it burns down to coals
and I add more wood, that's when the flame dance begins! I can ease that air back bit by bit, and do quite well.

Hope this helps.