Minimal Heat coming out of my Fireplace

[vicuna]

hey everyone.

I moved into a house with a Bis 1 wood burning stove. It's ~25 years old but was supposed to be pretty efficient. It doesn't give off a lot of heat I was wondering if there was something I could do differently?

there are two vents on the side about 6 feet up where heat is supposed to escape. it does warm a tiny bit but not enough to even nudge the temperature up. and almost no heat comes out the front. dunno where it goes ! out the chimney I suppose.

I have tried all kinds of configurations in terms of more wood, allowing more air in, etc.

If I open the doors to the stove, we feel more heat out the front - so I was thinking of getting a screen and just running it with the doors open?

(I got a high level inspection with camera and everything is ok)

thank you for any suggestions with this.

 

[begreen]

The BIS 1 is an oldie, circa 1989 or so. I don't recall this unit having a blower. That would make an improvement. Is there any heat coming out of the upper vents on the fireplace side?
The BIS Traditions added a blower option for forcing more hot air out. I am not sure if this is adaptable to the older model(s). I did find this fan listed for the older BIS1. It looks like it would go behind the grille for the side vent.

Fan | Montigo

Replacement Fan fits most Marco, BIS 1 and BIS 1.2 Wood Burning Fireplaces. Also used in older Montigo gas fireplaces. Blower Brackets are 4-1/4" Square Blower Depth is 2-1/4" 80 CFM

woodstoves-fireplaces.com

There is a copy of the manual here, if needed:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/attachments/bis1-manual-compressed-pdf.288809/?hash=439c339181d556d4ec0e1ecb38694930

 

[vicuna]

thank you for the reply

yes it's an oldie. and yes the upper vents barely let any heat out. like i can put my hand right on the vent and it's just a little warm.

we bought a universal blower kit but it was impossible to install...we would have had to fabricate something. it was a whole thing. we were on the phone with tech support with my installer and he told me it wasn't happening

 

[vicuna]

can anyone please answer this:

would leaving the doors open be unsafe? (I would find a screen or something so nothing flies out).

 

[bigealta]

probably they said it was efficient, but left out "compared to an open fireplace" Which is not at all efficient.

If it was my house i'd take that out and put in a freestanding woodstove or a modern insert. Both will give you good heat.

 

[begreen]

can anyone please answer this:

would leaving the doors open be unsafe? (I would find a screen or something so nothing flies out).

It's not designed to operate this way. Smoke may come into the room.

This should be producing a decent amount of heat. If not, the firewood may not be fully seasoned. This is a very common cause of low heat complaints. The other issue may be that most of the hot air is captive and stratifying up near the high ceiling. Is a ceiling fan being used to reduce this issue? Usually they are run in reverse (winter mode) in the winter.

 

[vicuna]

probably they said it was efficient, but left out "compared to an open fireplace" Which is not at all efficient.

If it was my house i'd take that out and put in a freestanding woodstove or a modern insert. Both will give you good heat.

I called a fireplace company. they told me I'd have to remove all of the stones and rebuild from scratch. they said it would be a fairly big project...like $12k to do a new modern insert (not counting the stone removal)

 

[vicuna]

It's not designed to operate this way. Smoke may come into the room.

This should be producing a decent amount of heat. If not, the firewood may not be fully seasoned. This is a very common cause of low heat complaints. The other issue may be that most of the hot air is captive and stratifying up near the high ceiling. Is a ceiling fan being used to reduce this issue? Usually they are run in reverse (winter mode) in the winter.

the firewood i'm using has been outside for like 4 years or so. I have not spent a lot of time yet on learning what the best wood is. that's on my agenda though. I hope that's the issue!

I have a bunch of ash trees that have fallen and I've cut them up over the last 2 years...haven't gotten around to chopping them yet.

we do have a reverse mode fan and I've tried that. but even when I put my hand on the vents, it's like minimal warming coming out of it.

 

[begreen]

As a general rule, wood doesn't really start seasoning until the rounds have been split and stacked. The exception are smaller limb pieces <4" in diameter.

How large are the fires in general? How many splits are being burned at a time and how are they being loaded? Pictures may make it easier to show.

 

[vicuna]

so there is a huge pile of split wood left by the previous owner...it's been out there for like 4 years. the new stuff that I haven't chopped I cut last year

(last few years my job has been crazy stressful so I haven't put much time into this...other than I hired someone last year to install a blower and he was unable to. also when we moved in I got a level 2 inspection and cleaning).

once the fire is up and running I use ~ 3 pieces at a time. it can get pretty good sized.

I'll get it going tonight and post a pic. thank you!

 

[stoveliker]

If the wood was piled on the ground, not stacked off the ground,.it won't likely be dry enough

 

[vicuna]

ok I will for sure go buy some properly seasoned wood in the next weekend or two to experiment. and I'll learn how to use a moisture meter, etc.

it was outside but I had moved it inside for a few weeks.

I took the grill off the side vent and I see holes in the duct work.

there's also a ~4" gap between the duct and the vent and I bet a bunch of heat is just going into the cavity there

just started a fire so we'll see.

 

[begreen]

If you have some shorter, 16-18 long splits, load 3-4 of them in first, oriented N/S, parallel to the sides, about 4" apart from each other. Put kindling and newpaper knots between them. Then load the longer wood on top of them, oriented E/W, with about a 1" gap between them.

I took the grill off the side vent and I see holes in the duct work.

there's also a ~4" gap between the duct and the vent and I bet a bunch of heat is just going into the cavity there

Good sleuthing. That's pretty sloppy. Is that tar paper in there?
Leave the grille off so that you can access the actual vent duct for the heat check.

 

[vicuna]

so here is a fire about 30 min after I started it. this is with the slider thing closed completely.

 

[vicuna]

here is the fire with the slider thing ~1/2 open

 

[vicuna]

ok so I only have a random room thermometer...I stuck it in the vent where it turns (about 2 feet in) and it got to ~140 degrees in < 1 min. (It was still climbing but I took it out cause i was afraid the thermometer itself melt).

when I move the thermometer back to where the grill would be (after the hole in there) it goes down to like 85 degrees.

so I think a lot of heat is just escaping in that hole

can I call an HVAC company to fill in that gap? or should I call a fireplace company? (I'm guessing the fireplace company is gonna wanna charge me 10x to install a simple aluminum vent - obv want to keep it safe though.)

 

[bigealta]

Those tears almost look like tar paper? Are they metal or something else?

For testing purposes you could try covering the holes/tears with aluminum foil and see if that helps the heat travel into the room.

And agree with begreen to try more firewood and stack it as he says. That will give you a good hot fire with a decent amount of fuel. That should help show what you are dealing with as far as heat output goes.

 

[bigealta]

the firewood i'm using has been outside for like 4 years or so. I have not spent a lot of time yet on learning what the best wood is. that's on my agenda though. I hope that's the issue!

I have a bunch of ash trees that have fallen and I've cut them up over the last 2 years...haven't gotten around to chopping them yet.

we do have a reverse mode fan and I've tried that. but even when I put my hand on the vents, it's like minimal warming coming out of it.

That firewood in the rack by the wall looks like it should be good?

 

[bigealta]

I called a fireplace company. they told me I'd have to remove all of the stones and rebuild from scratch. they said it would be a fairly big project...like $12k to do a new modern insert (not counting the stone removal)

Hmmm..... Well 1st let's see what we can get out of this stove.
Maybe later get a second opinion on replacement if we can't get this one to perform acceptably.

 

[stoveliker]

I have not spent a lot of time yet on learning what the best wood is. that's on my agenda though. I hope that's the issue!

All wood is good if it's dry enough.
Oak is good. But pine is too. If dry.
In fact pine may give you more heat per hour than oak because it burns faster (though it'll last less long as the total amount of energy in the wood is less than that of oak).

So as a starter, you only need to learn how to get dry wood and ensure it's dry. Once that's done, one can go get picky in what species you like better.

 

[vicuna]

Those tears almost look like tar paper? Are they metal or something else?

yes it's tar paper that has gotten brittle and just torn. they didn't run the vent ducting all the way to the grill.

I felt the wall upstairs and the wall is warm. all the heat is just going into that cavity.

I for sure am losing >50 degrees of heat from where the vent bends to the grill.

 

[bigealta]

yes it's tar paper that has gotten brittle and just torn. they didn't run the vent ducting all the way to the grill.

I felt the wall upstairs and the wall is warm. all the heat is just going into that cavity.

I for sure am losing >50 degrees of heat from where the vent bends to the grill.

Is the heat still going to inside the house, but just from a different location or being used to warm the stone?
Since it's tar paper, i'd definitely try tinfoil or something similar to close that gap and see what happens.

Maybe something like a cut down dog collar cone that they put on dogs after surgery. You get the idea.

 

[vicuna]

That firewood in the rack by the wall looks like it should be good?

I think so. I am obviously a newbie but the wood was outside for years and I brought it inside my dry house for > a month now. it was on the ground but I took from the top of the pile. it feels rather dry.

Hmmm..... Well 1st let's see what we can get out of this stove.

yup!

I know tech always improves but this stove was designed to heat a place just like mine...reading the manual it seems like it was very well thought out at the time. I can imagine newer tech is better, but this one should at least nudge the temp some.

I think that hole in the venting is the main culprit

 

[vicuna]

Is the heat still going to inside the house, but just from a different location or being used to warm the stone?
Since it's tar paper, i'd definitely try tinfoil or something similar to close that gap and see what happens.

ok good idea. I will try that. it'll be next week sometime. i'll report back.

no it's all going just inside this cavity made of sheetrock. this is a pic from the manual. the vent ends...then there is that broken tar paper...then another 4 inch gap with nothing...then a grill covering it all.

then I felt this wall...and the wall is warm. it's just all going in there

 

[bigealta]

I think so. I am obviously a newbie but the wood was outside for years and I brought it inside my dry house for > a month now. it was on the ground but I took from the top of the pile. it feels rather dry.



yup!

I know tech always improves but this stove was designed to heat a place just like mine...reading the manual it seems like it was very well thought out at the time. I can imagine newer tech is better, but this one should at least nudge the temp some.

I think that hole in the venting is the main culprit

Well maybe, but a stovetop can easily run at 500-600F, That's way way more heat than those vents are putting out, but that said that stove must be kicking out heat thru the glass and metal front and hopefully somewhere else as well.