Model & Liner insulation kit - is it necessary?

[Hokie]

New to the forum but seems like I'm in the right place for answers. Apologies if this is answered elsewhere but I would appreciate the opinions and education.

Background:
- New construction (1,250 sf 1st floor, 1,900 sf 2nd floor, unfinished 3rd.) Masonry fireplace built on exterior wall
- Use: To assist in heating first floor, "help out" the heat pump, provide some backup heat when power goes out (I know blower wont work).
- Couldn't talk "the boss" into a free standing so I want to ensure the insert I choose will still provide ample output considering what I'm paying for it

Here's the brief version of my two questions:
1) Two wood burning insert options I've narrowed it down to: Quadra-Fire Voyageur Grand v. Jotle 550 Rockland. Both seem comparable from an output and use perspective. Both are nice looking units. Both have been priced the same around 5k installed.

I had a third dealer quote me on a Hampton Hi300 for just over $3k all in...something doesn't seem right about that.

2) One dealer swears a insulated wrap around the liner is not needed nor is it required by code. The second dealer, who seems to be a "do it right the first time" kind of guy says it is absolutely required by code and even if it were not it would help the efficiency of either unit anyway.

Can anyone provide their two cents on which unit may have an edge over the other and if the insulated wrap is in fact necessary, and why?

Thanks in advance. Any advice is much appreciated.

 

[bholler]

It is not required by code unless there is not adequate clearance from the outside of the masonry to combustibles. That being said i think every liner should be insulated for performance reasons as well at the fact that it is usually next to impossible to confirm proper clearances the entire length of the chimney.

 

[Grisu]

I agree with bholler. An insulated liner is unlikely to be required by code unless the code in your area is more stringent than in most other places. However, with a pretty tall (how many ft do you have?) exterior chimney you would benefit greatly from an insulated liner. The insert will draft much better and the flue will accumulate less creosote and therefore reduce the risk of a chimney fire. Since the liner is going to stay in there for the lifetime of the insert, the small added charge will be well worth it.

To get the most heat out of your insert, have the shop install a damper sealing block-off plate: https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/make-a-damper-sealing-block-off-plate/
Preferentially they would stuff some Roxul around the liner first, before installing the plate. In addition, insulation around the insert will help provided there is enough room for it:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/finally-got-around-to-insulating-my-fireplace.75755/ See also the 2nd page of the thread.

You have chosen two solid inserts but be aware that you have a large place to heat. There are larger inserts out there that may give you a bit more heat; e. g. Pacific Energy Summit, Osburn 2400, Lopi Freedom, Lopi Large Flush Wood Insert, Regency I3100. Moreover, flush inserts like the ones you are considering are not that great during a power outage as they rely on their blower to get the heat out. An insert that protrudes more on the hearth will work better without a blower.

Last but not least: Those inserts will absolutely require dry, seasoned wood to perform properly and burn safely. How many cords do you have split and stacked sitting in your yard?

 

[Hokie]

I agree with bholler. An insulated liner is unlikely to be required by code unless the code in your area is more stringent than in most other places. However, with a pretty tall (how many ft do you have?) exterior chimney you would benefit greatly from an insulated liner. The insert will draft much better and the flue will accumulate less creosote and therefore reduce the risk of a chimney fire. Since the liner is going to stay in there for the lifetime of the insert, the small added charge will be well worth it.

To get the most heat out of your insert, have the shop install a damper sealing block-off plate: https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/make-a-damper-sealing-block-off-plate/
Preferentially they would stuff some Roxul around the liner first, before installing the plate. In addition, insulation around the insert will help provided there is enough room for it:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/finally-got-around-to-insulating-my-fireplace.75755/ See also the 2nd page of the thread.

You have chosen two solid inserts but be aware that you have a large place to heat. There are larger inserts out there that may give you a bit more heat; e. g. Pacific Energy Summit, Osburn 2400, Lopi Freedom, Lopi Large Flush Wood Insert, Regency I3100. Moreover, flush inserts like the ones you are considering are not that great during a power outage as they rely on their blower to get the heat out. An insert that protrudes more on the hearth will work better without a blower.

Last but not least: Those inserts will absolutely require dry, seasoned wood to perform properly and burn safely. How many cords do you have split and stacked sitting in your yard?

Thanks for the help. I will also check out the other insert options you've suggested. RE: wood - I'll be "acquiring" some wood from pops. He's got a few cords that have been drying for over a year. This will get us started while working on additional to dry out for next season and beyond.

 

[stovelark]

Hi Hokie- If your masonary chimney meets code for integrity, the liner is just providing the proper size exhaust for optimal draft for the stove. You picked a couple of good stoves too, right now we are selling the Jotul for 2949. Is the dealer there giving you 300 more off for Jotul's tradeout program?? That is a nice savings and puts the Jotul at a very nice price point. If you do look at the other stoves Grisu mentioned, you might want to add Enviro's line to that list, the Kodiak 1700 and Boston 1700 are both nice stoves, the Kodiak is a nice price point too. Good luck in your search, 5K sounds a bit high to me, but it does sound like you have a tall chimney there, maybe the price isn't that far off. Are you perhaps considering the enamel versions of those inserts?? If so, 5K sounds about right installed with a liner. Take care.