been looking to purchase a copy of this text. recently bought a used wood boiler and building an addition. is the revised edition worth the extra money. what benefit is the disk? i've been told john sigenthalers book is a necessity for a poor carpenter trying to be a boilerman. the price difference between the two is a few fittings and a valve. thanks for the reply.
modern hydronic heating ; the book
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After borrowing the first edition from the library I decided to purchase the second edition for myself and am very pleased there are at least a 100 pages of revised material added.I was using the disk today to figure how much heat loss was in my house room by room,John shows you how to do the math in the book but it saves a lot of time to just plug in some numbers on the disk.Bottom line I believe this book is worth every penny.
If you are trying to design a heating system or addition from scratch yourself, aren't intimidated by a little basic algebra ( all the equations are done in a very self-explanatory form) and really want to know the science behind the 'rules of thumb' this is the book for you.
It is NOT an instruction book in the sense of how to sweat fittings or how to wire up a zone valve. This is a textbook for a technical college.
There is a lot of plumbing information in here ( copper and PEX, but not black iron) but info for design purposes, not assembly.
The software that comes with the new edition is trimmed down basic version of his professional software. The new edition uses his other software to make all the diagrams in the book. If you like doing fractional exponents longhand you don't need it. And it is designed to make you want to buy the full version. But it is very slick for getting answers quickly for a lot of the calculations that too many "professionals" don't do. Some of it is limited to 3 loops but you can stack the calculations to get overall figures for a larger system.
If you haven't seen the book itself go online and see if you can find one of those sample preview features that allow you to browse through the actual book. I think Amazon does a lot of those.
I bought my copy directly from Siegenthaler's outfit:
http://store.hydronicpros.com/category.php?qcc=1002&qpg=1
I like to see all the money go to the people who did all the work. I don't remember finding a better price elsewhere, either.
It is NOT an instruction book in the sense of how to sweat fittings or how to wire up a zone valve. This is a textbook for a technical college.
There is a lot of plumbing information in here ( copper and PEX, but not black iron) but info for design purposes, not assembly.
The software that comes with the new edition is trimmed down basic version of his professional software. The new edition uses his other software to make all the diagrams in the book. If you like doing fractional exponents longhand you don't need it. And it is designed to make you want to buy the full version. But it is very slick for getting answers quickly for a lot of the calculations that too many "professionals" don't do. Some of it is limited to 3 loops but you can stack the calculations to get overall figures for a larger system.
If you haven't seen the book itself go online and see if you can find one of those sample preview features that allow you to browse through the actual book. I think Amazon does a lot of those.
I bought my copy directly from Siegenthaler's outfit:
http://store.hydronicpros.com/category.php?qcc=1002&qpg=1
I like to see all the money go to the people who did all the work. I don't remember finding a better price elsewhere, either.
thank you for the address daveDP. just ordered the book. there price was cheaper than most of the used ones i came across. hopefully it will suite me well. i am looking for design direction. Do not think i will have any problem with the execution once i have a plan. thanks agian all
stee6043
Minister of Fire
I wish I had seen this thread earlier. I could have saved you some money and sold you my copy! I purchased this book late last year to use as a reference in my system design. Sadly, I didn't use it once. I rifled through the pages once or twice lamenting how much it cost.
I liken purchasing this book for a hydronic DIY'er to buying a first year mechanical engineering textbook for your home deck building project. The book is full of loads of information. But for realworld application of this theory I found it much more useful to come here and read the experiences of the members. During my system design, install and start-up I relied on a few calls to Dave at Cozy and countless hours on this website.
Of course this is the opinion of someone that does not install heating for a living and that can afford not to know "why" things work. Many people on this site depend on the theory to make the right decisions daily. Just another reason this site is great...I hope you find the book more usefull than I did.
I liken purchasing this book for a hydronic DIY'er to buying a first year mechanical engineering textbook for your home deck building project. The book is full of loads of information. But for realworld application of this theory I found it much more useful to come here and read the experiences of the members. During my system design, install and start-up I relied on a few calls to Dave at Cozy and countless hours on this website.
Of course this is the opinion of someone that does not install heating for a living and that can afford not to know "why" things work. Many people on this site depend on the theory to make the right decisions daily. Just another reason this site is great...I hope you find the book more usefull than I did.
I managed to wangle an interlibrary loan of Siggy's book (second edition) from late July to early September of 2008.
As someone who has done a lot of DIY plumbing, wiring, and forced air heating, but never hydronics, I found it INVALUABLE in giving me understanding and confidence at getting a sense of what size pipes to use, what gpm/ head for circulators, etc.- and to know that at least I was making educated guesses, not blind stabs in the dark.
for anyone who is going to dive into hydronic applications for wood boilers (which are more complex and less well understood than traditional fossil boilers) and who does not have a lot of past hands on experience, the amount you stand to lose from ending up with a system that does not work well, or that you have to re-do portions of, can quickly cost you way more than this book.
just like my suggestion of a Hearth.com tool leasing program, someone should set up a "rent to own" program for this book and some of Holohan's more pertinent stuff
As someone who has done a lot of DIY plumbing, wiring, and forced air heating, but never hydronics, I found it INVALUABLE in giving me understanding and confidence at getting a sense of what size pipes to use, what gpm/ head for circulators, etc.- and to know that at least I was making educated guesses, not blind stabs in the dark.
for anyone who is going to dive into hydronic applications for wood boilers (which are more complex and less well understood than traditional fossil boilers) and who does not have a lot of past hands on experience, the amount you stand to lose from ending up with a system that does not work well, or that you have to re-do portions of, can quickly cost you way more than this book.
just like my suggestion of a Hearth.com tool leasing program, someone should set up a "rent to own" program for this book and some of Holohan's more pertinent stuff
pybyr said:
I bought Dan Holohan's books. So far they've been informative. Just skip the non applicable parts dealing with steam heat etc. There are other sites that post calcs for sizing tubing and figuring flows. This would be something Craig should consider. It would be icing on the web site.......
stee6043
Minister of Fire
8nrider said:
Shoot me a PM. I'd be more than happy to sell my copy. I believe the CD has been opened but the book is mint....
I recently received a copy of the newly released 3rd edition to this book and as expected I was not disappointed,John has done a wonderful job of updating new techniques and products that available,he also has many fresh ideas in his many illustrated drawing,and by the way this new edition is in color.
I know many of you think this book is expensive,but have you priced boilers and supplies lately ! I Have owned all 3 editions of this title and can say a novice could get a clear understanding of hydronic heating from any one of them.For example not knowing the proper use of a mixing device could cost you the price of a boiler.I have seen 1st edition go for $20 - $50 on eBay, 2nd editions have dropped in price and even the newest edition can be had reasonable if you do some shopping.
Thinking about spending $10,000 on a boiler system? you may want to invest some time in John's book or even some of Dan Holohan's fine books, many can even be found at your local library or through an inter-loan system for free.
I know many of you think this book is expensive,but have you priced boilers and supplies lately ! I Have owned all 3 editions of this title and can say a novice could get a clear understanding of hydronic heating from any one of them.For example not knowing the proper use of a mixing device could cost you the price of a boiler.I have seen 1st edition go for $20 - $50 on eBay, 2nd editions have dropped in price and even the newest edition can be had reasonable if you do some shopping.
Thinking about spending $10,000 on a boiler system? you may want to invest some time in John's book or even some of Dan Holohan's fine books, many can even be found at your local library or through an inter-loan system for free.
surprised this post came back to life! never ended up buying the text. wife(librarian)(and yes she is hot) found me a copy inter loan, but never really used it. the info on this site is much more valueable in the real world experience is the best teacher. hopefully i'll be filling the system in a few weeks. been a long time coming.then it will be see ya later propane guy!!
The 3rd edition is 730 pages, the second edition was 560. The new edition is also full color, it make it much easier to follow the piping diagrams.
EVERYTHING you need to know to design, pipe, or troubleshoot a system is in here. There is a lifetimes worth of knowledge between the covers. Hard to put a price on that much info.
The Q&A at the end of every chapters help make sure you understand the material before you move on.
hr
EVERYTHING you need to know to design, pipe, or troubleshoot a system is in here. There is a lifetimes worth of knowledge between the covers. Hard to put a price on that much info.
The Q&A at the end of every chapters help make sure you understand the material before you move on.
hr
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