More storage space

[Snowy Rivers]

Well now.

Storage space for our shells has always been at a premium, and we have used 50 gallon food grade barrels as well as cardboard 15, 20 and 30 gallon drums.

This mish mash of sizes has taken up a lot of space in the basement, and the time has come to think smarter rather than work harder.

We have a spot that we used to store up to 3 tons of pellets in bags, in a spot we called "The Slot" which is literally what it is.

Our triple wide is sitting on a daylight basement with a lot of steel beams and steel posts holding it up, and this left great spot to put the pellet bag where they would not fall over.

Since we are not buying pellets by the ton any longer, the slot has been filled with crap furniture and other debris that needed a home.

We cleared the slot and now we can get after a new plan.

The 55 gallon drums are perfect to store shells in, but take up a lot of room when only 1 high.

I have devised a way to take care of this little issue.

We are going to build a little monorail crane using barn door (stall door) tracks with a 1 ton air chain hoist on it.

We can then pick the barrels up and roll them down "The slot" and stack them.

A pair of short 2x4 laid across the top of the bottom ones will allow stacking.

The slot will allow storage of 4400 lb of shells in a double stack.

Each barrel will last approx 5 days or so, depending on the weather.

My hopes are to eliminate many of the smaller cardboard drums and clear up my basement a lot.

We may need to add a few more of the 55's to get things up to a point that we can hold 5000 lb +

We haul in 2700 lb per dumpster and generally do 3 hauls per season.

Think smarter not work harder

The basics are done and a sketch made of the monorail, so now it's time to gather the needed parts.

The door tracks are pretty cheap, as are the trolleys to roll in them.

Snowy

 

[Wilbur Feral]

You should write a column for some magazine devoted to practical living and ingenuity, Snowy. Maybe Mother Earth News? Popular Mechanics? Smart thinking...

 

[Bkins]

With a space like that I'd be thinking storage bin and maybe a way to blow the shells in and eliminate a while handling process. Some would depend on if the basement is dry or not. Do shells suck up moisture like pellets would? Are they dusty to move and handle?

 

[velvetfoot]

With a space like that I'd be thinking storage bin and maybe a way to blow the shells in and eliminate a while handling process. Some would depend on if the basement is dry or not. Do shells suck up moisture like pellets would? Are they dusty to move and handle?

Me too, but it's probably easier said than done.

 

[Snowy Rivers]

We have explored many ideas, and most of them end up being costly $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

The shells are not quite as absorbent as pellets, but moving them is the trick.

The flow easily with gravity.

The basement is dry.
2 feet of compacted rock under the concrete with a double layer of vapor barrier over the rock.
A complete curtain drain all the way around the house, plus the house sits in a notch in a grade of about 15%

Good drainage.

I have been very reluctant to store a large amount of material in one lump.

There are many ways to do it, some would be very convenient, just $$$$$$$$

AS we get older we have been trying to evolve our process to use less labor and take up less valuable room.

We started off years ago in another house that had a large garage (15x60) with an attached walk through into the living room.

This was great as space was forgiving and everything was on one level.

Now space is a premium and there are two flights of stairs to climb.

We never really did anything other than continue with business as usual.

When we built the new place (Here) the basement has a 1000 ft apartment that was my parents who are long passed, and the remaining space is storage/shop/ yada yada yada.

The steel pillar in the piccy just happened to come where the jog in the concrete wall was located, and the area left after building a storage room was perfect size to stack pellets.

Just also happen to be JUST wide enough to pass the 55 gallon barrels.

Keeping the shells in barrels is likely the safest (Fire) way to go, and also keeps out any errant rodent that finds it's way into the area while the door is open. (Roll up)

Today we are going to take a look at barn door track.

The plan should work well.

Still would be cool to eliminate some more of the physical work.

If I could find a small grain auger that would easily fit into the bottom of the dumpster, this would be sweet to fill the barrels.

Been looking around some $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ is again the issue.

Too much $$$$$ starts to defeat the entire reason we use the shells in the first place, but we need to prepare for the years to come.

I'm early 60's now and it seems that time is not going to stop ticking away


I will post more pix as things come together.

Snowy

 

[johninwi]

Snowy, whats outside the wall above grade? If you can drive to that side of the house a chute thru the wall would ease some of the work. You could fill barrels in place or make a storage bin.

For the trolley, would you have an old garage door opener that could be used to move the trolley. Pushing a barrel in would be easy enough but pulling one out to you might end badly. I have a vision of a drum penduliuming back and forth and smacking grandma in head.

 

[Bkins]

I agree that mods can and do get expensive very quickly. I've learned to look out in the future and try to see where and in what shape I'll be in. I'm about your same age and the lifting and moving even 40 lb. bags of stuff is getting old let alone any stairs.

To me if something can be designed and made to work, even if it's more costly then other ideas, and the cost can be spread out over 15 to 20 years or so all the sudden it's not as costly. Gotta have the money to do it though.

A augar system would be a nice addition. Maybe a used machinery dealer or a farmer going out of business? Don't know how many farmers you have in Oregon as that may be part of the problem finding one or two.

I would think a furnace blower or something similar with a cast heavy fan or cage might work for shells but by the time you add in the ducting speed controller for the motor and running power to operate it it could price it out of the ballpark. I would look at a scrap yard for a blower as I've senn many, many at the yard near me. A industrial HVAC place would have access to a heavy blower if you asked them to look out for you. Most would rather sell one to you then send a working one to scrap.

Just throwing some ideas out there. I know you are fully capable from your postings but you never know when something might just click.

 

[Snowy Rivers]

Using the wall above grade may be workable.

We originally designed the foundation based on the houses footprint sitting on the sales lot.

We carefully laid out the exact perimeter and then designed the basement.

There are 12 inch wide flange beams on 10 foot centers that sit on 5 inch square tubes.

Across all the beams are 6 x12 wood beams that are centered under the frame rails of the house.

The wood walls were added above the concrete to close it all in after the sections were rolled onto the basement and anchored with steel stools every few feet.

The pony wall in that area is about 2 feet high roughly.

We have considered putting an access port through.

The other issue is that to get a rig in there is iffy this time of year due to soft ground WETTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

No rock, as it is not a drive around.

WE will take it one step at a time.

Once the barrels are filled, we have the barrel cart that allows them to be easily pushed to the mouth of the slot, but it will not go into the slot.

The barrels have maybe 3/4 inch on a side.

They can be rolled in with a hand truck, but I want to stack them 2 high to gain capacity.

I stopped off at the builders supply earlier today and priced the track and stuff.

Not too bad.

Will just work at it.

maybe by summer it will be done

 

[Arti]

For your situation the track and trolley system should work very well. I have run into the same situation with the barrels, if you don't stack them then they take up a lot of room. I used a cherry picker/engine puller to stack them this year however it takes up some room to store the hoist.

I've also considering a storage bin and looking for an old auger to help with the moving of the corn and pellets a flex auger would work great for my application. Also scooping the corn out of the bottom of the barrel is somewhat of a chore.
Please keep us updated on the progress of the project,

 

[Snowy Rivers]

When $$$$ are no object, any and all waaaaaaaaay cool things can be easily be achieved.

Living on a fixed retirement income now, so I scrounge craigs list and ebay.

If the cost was no biggy, I would have an auger lift to a spot near the large stove in the family room.

I drew up a plan for a cool little cabinet that would cover the auger and allow a 5 gallon pail to sit under the auger drop.

Simply press a momentary switch and fill the bucket, ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh yesssssssssss, no more carrying buckets up the stairs.

The cost was prohibitive.

We had fiddled with the idea of rolling the dumpster right into the basement (Full) but it is just too big to deal with in that area.

It's far better to store the dumpster in the out building and keep the shells in the barrels.

May go to Home depot today and look over the Barn door track systems they sell.

This is another one of those things that is, ahhhhh, it's not the end result, it's the journey that counts.

 

[Bkins]

How much does a 55 gallon drum weigh?

 

[Arti]

How much does a 55 gallon drum weigh?

Shelled Corn is approx 350 lbs for a 55 gallon barrel.

 

[Bkins]

She is burning shelled nuts of some type, not corn, but thanks for the info amount.

 

[Snowy Rivers]

I burn hazelnut shells

Here is piccy od some in a scoop.

A 55 gallon barrel is about 400 + pounds

 

[Snowy Rivers]

Spent some quality time Sunday sitting on my Buttttttttttttttttttt thinking about a solution to my need to double stack my barrels.

I stumbled onto a cool little device (LITTLE RED DEVICE, TOP LEFT) https://www.google.com/search?q=pipe trolley&biw=906&bih=444&tbm=isch&imgil=C0-2vUpjxc8zXM%3A%3BABHD-o8OJTFo1M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.pacifichoists.com.au%252Four-products%252Fcategories%252Fhoisting-equipment%252Ftrolleys-clamps%252Fpipe-trolleys%252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=C0-2vUpjxc8zXM%3A%2CABHD-o8OJTFo1M%2C_&usg=__y6Ukg71PvDdf-6Wcw__bPCMatf8=

I have looked everywhere online, and these seem to be only available in AU, and NZ.

Not sure why they are not available stateside, but so far no go.

Soooooooooooooo, the next best solution was to build one.

I scared up a piece of 3 inch exhaust tube 12 feet long for the tramway and sketched up the side plates for the little trolley.

Found a pack of 10 bearings suitable to use as the rollers for cheap on ebay.

So far the tube was $67, bearings $13

I will get a quote this morning on getting the plates formed.

The trolley in the piccy was priced at $125 at the lowest, but have not gotten any response back from down under, and still don't understand why nobody here sells these.


Be far easier to buy a ready built, but if that is not possible, THEN WE WILL BUILD ONE

We shall see

Snowy

 

[Bkins]

How much height do you have and how tall are your 55 gallon drums? Seems to me you could have a height issue. I'm sure you have measured but by the time you mount the pipe, add the trolley, and a lifting device I would think you have used up close to a couple of feet.

Take a look at Herbor Freight. They show a push beam trolley for $90. It mounts onto a I beam. See if something like that might work. They have 25 off coupons all the time so that would help and I'm sure you could get a small, like very small, I beam from a scrap yard. You would have to find a way to mount the beam but you have the same issue with mounting a exhaust pipe. The problem is the weight you need to lift and how to safely mount something.

I could envision drilling mounting holes into one edge of the beam and bolting it to floor joists. What do you have above to bolt something to?

Also found on Amazon a Pacline hand push trolley for $125. Probably better built then the Harbor Freight one but is a good bit more money.

 

[Snowy Rivers]

Drums are about 36 inches tall

The top of the steel beams that hold up the house are 9 feet.

That leave me 3 feet for the tram rail, hoist and any rigging.

Will be close, but should be fine.

The I beam is way too heavy to get up into position by hand.

Aluminum I beam would be sweet, and I have a trolley for 4 inch beam, just too much $$$$$$ for alloy beam, and too heavy for steel.

Going with a 3 inch light steel tubing with 3/16 x 1-1/4 x 1-1/4 angle skip welded to the top for the trolley to run on.

Light weight, strong, and Cheap

 

[Bkins]

[quote="

Going with a 3 inch light steel tubing with 3/16 x 1-1/4 x 1-1/4 angle skip welded to the top for the trolley to run on.

Light weight, strong, and Cheap [/quote]

From my looking around I don't get the cheap part, especially for the pipe trolley. I didn't see many offerings and the ones I did see we're not cheap, at least in my opinion. If your going to have one made like you mentioned I don't see that as being a cheap endever either unless you know a fabricator/welder person. The drilled holes for the bearing mounts need to be exact or you will end up with bad performance of the trolley. Probably needs to be done on a mill or at the very least a good drill press. Will need a fabricator that is good wether they bend or weld the side plates for the trolley.

For my own reference what is the rating on the pipe you are going to use?

I'll drop out here as it seems you have it all figured out. Will look for pics of your finished product when you get it done. Good luck.

 

[Snowy Rivers]

Ahhhh yess grasshopper

All true.

Here is the best part.
I have the two side plates being formed as we speak.

The Cost is $60 for the two plates (Including materials)

The tube is $65
The angle is about $20

I have a Bridgeport mill sitting at the other end of the basement as well as a Takisawa lathe

The wire welder is close by as well.

Once the plates are in my hands then will come some welding, and drilling.

The holes will be laid out and drilled in a line Nice and straight

After my stroke I am slow and tire easily, but these sorts of things don't have to be done fast.

In my other life I was a welder, machinist, electrician and well, a bit of a lot of things.

Time and health woes have taken it's toll.

 

[Snowy Rivers]

Oh

Could not find a rating on the tube.

Using 3 inch 14 gauge exhaust tube with the angle upside down on top and skip welded to the tube.

Hangers every 3 feet.

Plenty stout to hold 400-500 pounds.

The most span will be 3 feet and the trolley is 12 inches long with 4 wheels(bearings) on a side.

Light enough to handle and install with 2 people.

 

[Bkins]

Well, you didn't say you were your own fabricator with the amount of experience and tools at your disposal.
Woulda, coulda, saved, well you get the idea. Never know what kind of experiences and knowledge the members here have.

Sorry to hear of your stroke. A lot of us have some limiting factors as we get older but nothing like the damage a stroke can do.

Please post some pictures when you do get it finished. I'd like to see the finished product.

Good fabricating and be well.

 

[velvetfoot]

How does one pick up the drums? Is there a special rig, straps,???

 

[rona]

We have explored many ideas, and most of them end up being costly $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

The shells are not quite as absorbent as pellets, but moving them is the trick.

The flow easily with gravity.

The basement is dry.
2 feet of compacted rock under the concrete with a double layer of vapor barrier over the rock.
A complete curtain drain all the way around the house, plus the house sits in a notch in a grade of about 15%

Good drainage.

I have been very reluctant to store a large amount of material in one lump.

There are many ways to do it, some would be very convenient, just $$$$$$$$

AS we get older we have been trying to evolve our process to use less labor and take up less valuable room.

We started off years ago in another house that had a large garage (15x60) with an attached walk through into the living room.

This was great as space was forgiving and everything was on one level.

Now space is a premium and there are two flights of stairs to climb.

We never really did anything other than continue with business as usual.

When we built the new place (Here) the basement has a 1000 ft apartment that was my parents who are long passed, and the remaining space is storage/shop/ yada yada yada.

The steel pillar in the piccy just happened to come where the jog in the concrete wall was located, and the area left after building a storage room was perfect size to stack pellets.

Just also happen to be JUST wide enough to pass the 55 gallon barrels.

Keeping the shells in barrels is likely the safest (Fire) way to go, and also keeps out any errant rodent that finds it's way into the area while the door is open. (Roll up)

Today we are going to take a look at barn door track.

The plan should work well.

Still would be cool to eliminate some more of the physical work.

If I could find a small grain auger that would easily fit into the bottom of the dumpster, this would be sweet to fill the barrels.

Been looking around some $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ is again the issue.

Too much $$$$$ starts to defeat the entire reason we use the shells in the first place, but we need to prepare for the years to come.

I'm early 60's now and it seems that time is not going to stop ticking away


I will post more pix as things come together.

Snowy

What size augers are you looking for? diameter and length? Around here there is a lot of smaller ones that are obsolete 4-5-6-8 inch diameter

 

[Snowy Rivers]

One of these little jewels

http://www.amazon.com/i-Liftequip-D...&qid=1423061094&sr=8-2&keywords=barrel+lifter

I would build one, but the price of this ready made is far too good to bother building one.

I have used a rig similar to this years ago when I worked in a machine shop.

Very easy to use, just slip it over the side of the barrel and lift the hoist, the weight of the drum keeps the unit locked in tight.

The more weight, the tighter it grips the drum.

The only reason I'm building the tram roller is that I can't find anything for sale locally (US)

This project is getting more entailed than I really wanted it to, just to store penny and a half a pound nut shells, but the need to use less brute force is a real necessity.

Getting things more organized will be great too.

In another couple years the number 1 grand son will be old enough to help do the unloading to a greater extent.

Ahhhhh yessss, its not so much the destination, but the journey that counts.

 

[velvetfoot]

nice!

I know it's too late, but I wonder if cheap movers dollies could've been used. You'd still have to lift up and stack the barrels, but then maybe just push them down the slot.