Morso 1410 Squirrel vs Jotul 602 CB or Morso 2b vs Lopi republic 1250 vs PE Super Step-Top (27) vs ?

[Shaolin]

Hi fellow wood stoves lovers!

I'm constructing my Tiny House on a forested land located in the city of Rawdon, Quebec (Canada) using the same plans as this (broken link removed to http://tinyhousebuild.com/home-plans/).
It's a place were you freeze in winter (often -20, -30, -40)...
But, I want a WOOD stove, in this 207SF (+110SF in lofts) tiny house, not a propane ...
A wood stove that takes less than 4' x 4' is necessary and the smaller, the better! It's going to be located in a corner...

So, after reading lots of tiny housers testimonials, I was adamant at buying a very small wodd stove so I wouldn't have to run out of the house because of excessive heat, like Jotul 602 CB or Morso 1410 Squirrel or Morso 2b. I really like the Morso 1410 because of the space, heat and large glass door...

But, I've been reading this forum for 2 months (lurking...) and I finally think that these stoves are not the best choices because of the small firebox size (less then 1.8...), the high sell price and the log size they can take.

I've read that if I want to heat 24/7 in winter, which is my case, I need a bigger firebox (1.8 or more) and a log size capacity of 16' or more. That's why the Lopi republic 1250 and Pacific Energy True North, Super Step-Top (27) are making their entry on this stove-competition list! I've also read good reviews of stoves like the Vogelzang, Blazeking Sirocco, Chinook or Ashford 20, Buck 20, Englander 17-VL, Woodstock Keystone or Palladium, Hampton H200, Castleton 8030, Tribute 8040, Amesti Nordic 380 and VC Intrepid II. But, I'm not to sure about those...

But, wouldn't they be too big? Or toast me right out in autumn and spring?
I"m really unsure as to which stove to choose and I'm starting my walls edification in less than a month.
I'm open to all stove suggestions, but can't pay more than 1000$ for the stove, new or used (preferably used to save cash), because with the chimney and installation it goes up to 1800$... That's the best price I had for the Morso 1410 squirrel after calling all the local dealers. I also really like more radiant fire stoves then convection ones, but I've only seen one convection fire stove in my life, so I don't really have any clue...

In short, I'm eager to listen to your experienced councils and I thank you in advance for your help in helping a motivated fire-stove newbie! Ahah!

And, sorry for my so-so english, I'm a french canadian and english is my second language...

 

[begreen]

Heating in a tiny space with a wood stove is possible with some serious caveats. Heating 24/7 however, is not easy at all. The stove will not have the fuel capacity to go for more than a few hours at the most. And if the place is well insulated you may have to run it just on kindling to avoid turning it into a sauna. I would strongly suggest having a primary heat source like a vented propane heater or a properly sized electric baseboard and use the stove for ambience, chill chasing and supplemental heat when it gets very cold. The little Morso would be ok. There are also boat heaters like the Sardine stove that could work.

http://www.marinestove.com/sardineinfo.htm

 

[Jags]

207 sqft? That is going to be a tough nut to crack trying to regulate a wood heater in that small of a place. I am not aware of ANY stove that will do an overnight fire and NOT cook you out. It is simply a fuel burn rate issue. If it is possible, you might want to look into a tiny gassifier with water storage (outside) and use a hydronic baseboard. This would allow for a thermostat to be used.

 

[Shaolin]

Thank you so much begreen and Jags!

I just want to tell you that one of the reason I want a stove is that my tiny house is off-grid, with no electricity apart one 145 watt solar panel.
Also, I have no problem not being really 24/7 heated. It was an exageration! I've lived in lots of cabin with non-efficient wood stoves and I was just putting more covers on my bed and wearing wool by day, no big deal! I just don't want the small house to freeze when I'm out to work on week days...
But, I wanted a wood stove because I'm not sure I will have the necessary watts to run an electric baseboard...
As for tiny gassifier with water storage outside, I don't think its a good idea in my case because it will freeze outside in the canadian winter (-20 to -40)... Maybe an underfloor electrical or hydronic heating system would be possible because they are very energy efficient (and for such a small space!)? And, as you say, it would be great to have a thermostat.
As for vented propane heater, I'm open to it, but I'm not sure which product would be adequate (I need between 5000 and 20000 BTU for the winter)?

So, I will have to explore those avenue, but I don't want to be too propane dependant. My 23 acres land is in a forest and I a have already a shed with dry wood... I don't want a heavy propane bill when I have lots of free wood...

So, all in all, it would be wood stove with either a vented propane heater or electric baseboard or electric baseboard (or hydropnic if doable). Maybe the tiny gassifier, if you think it would be ok for winter. With your knowledge, which wood stove (and heating combination) would you choose if you were in my position : Morso 1410 (or 1440 convection), Jotul 602 or Sardine? The Sardine looks really good also, I didn't know about it. But the burn time must be really minimalistic?

Merci !

 

[begreen]

If you have to leave the place for 8-10 hrs. then some sort of back up heat is going to be needed to stop pipes from freezing. Is electric heat an option at all? What will be your hot water source? I would look into boat systems. Espar and Webasto make both hot water and hot air systems that run on diesel.

Maybe consider a Hampton H27 gas stove? It has close clearances (much more an issue with a wood stove) and will allow you to run it at a lower temp when you are at work or sleeping. I don't think a tiny woodstove is not going to be ideal or practical given your extreme cold winter temps. In the least I'd consider catalytic models like a Woodstock Keystone or Vermont Castings Intrepid II. But you will note these stoves will take a lot more precious floor space than the gas stove.

 

[Grisu]

Would maybe a small pellet stove be an option? It will need some electricity, though. Here would be some examples:
http://www.pelletstovefires.com/smallest-pellet-stove.html
Thermostat control and plenty of fuel with a full hopper. Output between 6,000 and ~35,000 BTU for those stoves. The cost of the pellets could maybe be offset by selling some firewood if there is demand in your area.

 

[Jags]

More solar - maybe even a hydronic???

Just throwing ideas out.

 

[Shaolin]

Thanks guys!
And, yes, I plan to have a micro-hydro next year (I have a river on my land). So, electricity won't be as big a problem as right now.
I will have a propane water heater.
I'll look the boat systems and see if it fits my need, thanks begreen. The Hampton H27 looks interesting but very pricey!
As for pellet stoves, I'll look into that also even if I'm not to sold on the idea, thanks minister of fire !
Jags, yes more solar is on my wish list, as is the micro hydro...
What do you think of this : 8000 Btu Freidrich heat/cool model (UE08D11B) ; A fellow tiny housers told me that this through the wall heating/cooling unit was a great combination with a small wood stove ... Keeping 3,850 BTU Electric Heat when I'm out (at minum watt cost) so the pipes don't freeze and when i'm home I would heat the place with a wood stove...

I'm really sold on the wood stove !
Continue with your suggestions, my brain is on fire with all your ideas !!

Merci !

 

[begreen]

Baseboard electric would be cheaper as would a simple $79 oil filled radiator. Do you even need AC?

 

[Bigg_Redd]

Everything said about heating small spaces with wood by earlier posters is more or less true. But there's an easy solution if it gets too hot: open a window. I do it. Often.

 

[begreen]

Here is an English company that makes small stoves for caravans, huts, etc.
http://www.windysmithy.co.uk/woodburners/louis

 

[Shaolin]

Thanks again for your great tips!
The Louis looks great. I will write to them.
I'm really debating the hampton 27 versus a mix of Morso or Louis (for coziness and added heat)+radiator or baseboard (for minimum heating during working hours).
But, I like the smell of wood burning... So, my opinions are mixed.
I'm still checking the options and I will let you know what I buy and how it goes when I do it!

 

[peakbagger]

I expect that no matter how you do it the required clearances for these stoves is going to eat up a lot of space and unlike other aspects of a tiny home, these clearances are not optional and can not be multiuse. The boating stoves make a lot of sense as they have very small footprints (but also take very small wood).

 

[begreen]

I would have a tiny stove that I can use for the ambience when in the cabin, but an electric heater for the baseline heat.

 

[Cynnergy]

Have you looked into an old-fashioned oil stove? Just another idea to consider. We have a cook stove that runs on stove oil in our cabin. It's pricey to run (oil is expensive and hard to find in a jerry can - we have to get ours from the marine fuel dock), but simple to operate/maintain. If you can find one it could work until you get your micro hydro up and running. Ours was originally a wood cook stove but converted to oil in the factory in the 1950s. It is good here for late shoulder season - if it's colder we have both the woodstove and the oil stove going.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

Have you looked into an old-fashioned oil stove? Just another idea to consider. We have a cook stove that runs on stove oil in our cabin. It's pricey to run (oil is expensive and hard to find in a jerry can - we have to get ours from the marine fuel dock), but simple to operate/maintain. If you can find one it could work until you get your micro hydro up and running. Ours was originally a wood cook stove but converted to oil in the factory in the 1950s. It is good here for late shoulder season - if it's colder we have both the woodstove and the oil stove going.

What exactly are you buying? Every oil stove I've ever seen runs on diesel or kerosene (jetting being the only difference between the two). Is there some oil stove specific oil?

 

[EatenByLimestone]

You can always spread out the speed that heat is released with thermal mass. I'm not sure if storing a couple hundred lbs of weight to set on a stove is worth the trouble in such a small place.

 

[Cynnergy]

What exactly are you buying? Every oil stove I've ever seen runs on diesel or kerosene (jetting being the only difference between the two). Is there some oil stove specific oil?

Something pretty similar to kerosene. Diesel clogs up the burner. I'm not exactly on top of all of the different types of oil, but I've been told that jet/helicopter fuel (presumably that's kerosene) will work, but it will burn hotter than regular stove oil. I assume stove oil is a type of home heating oil, although not many people around here use it for heating their homes. It is available at the marine fuel dock in town because many of the old commercial fishing boats and yachts still use it for heat and cooking.

It's not advanced technology though, and pretty inefficient. Basically there's a carburetor that seeps fuel at a set rate into the bottom of the burner which burns constantly. No jets, no blowers, etc. But it's easy to maintain and it's great for this time of year when it's too warm out to light a fire but it's chilly in the morning. I would like to eventually get a wood cookstove.

But back to the OP...

 

[Highbeam]

Home heating oil is diesel fuel. Same pump.

The 200SF building is a shed. I couldn't park my pickup in a parking spot that small. You already have propane on site and no significant electric, use the propane for your primary heat source with some sort of small vented heater.

For a woodburner I would definitely take my lessons from the sailboat community. Those guys burn wood in small stoves and manage to not get cooked out. All the "rules" you have learned about 24/7 heating such as more than 2 cubic feet, and 16" logs, all apply to houses and not to sheds. So yes, look into the boat world for guidance.

 

[Nate R]

Hi fellow wood stoves lovers!

I'm constructing my Tiny House on a forested land located in the city of Rawdon, Quebec (Canada) using the same plans as this (broken link removed to http://tinyhousebuild.com/home-plans/).
It's a place were you freeze in winter (often -20, -30, -40)...
But, I want a WOOD stove, in this 207SF (+110SF in lofts) tiny house, not a propane ...
A wood stove that takes less than 4' x 4' is necessary and the smaller, the better! It's going to be located in a corner...
..

Any update on this on what you ended up doing?

 

[Squirrel]

If you put a 1410 in that small space you will enjoy the heat (sitting outside in a lawn chair with the door open).