Morso Squirrel #1410 mods...

[Squirrely]

But the fact is that you have made your stoves listing invalid. And if anything ever happens that could spell big problems with your insurance. It also may not and chances are as long as you did everything else right nothing will happen but you opened yourself up to a mess of liability. I am curious why you didnt try addressing the issues in other ways before modifying the stove

I don't have any home insurance to have problems with because I choose to assume personal liability for what I built myself. The title to the house belongs to me free and clear, and unencumbered by debt. So because it isn't owned by a mortgage company, there no requirement for me to insure it for someone else. I understand that you likely live under different circumstances from mine, and that you have expressed perfectly valid liability fears of your own and need to buy insurance because your living situation requires it.

As to why I modified the stove... the European Morso Squirrels have fully adjustable primary air controls so I made mine operational too. I've been using wood stoves for 46 years and so am pretty familiar with their operating principles. Even so, I welcome your opinions because there's always something new to learn.

Greg

 

[bholler]

I'm not.

I don't believe you're aware that coal burns ~way~ hotter than wood because it's a hydrocarbon which contains a lot more potential heat energy for equal weight than any wood ever could.

The Morso cast iron grates are exactly the same parts used in their dual-fuel wood/coal stoves. Our old Efel was also a dual fuel stove...

View attachment 197654

...and the firebox is also fed by primary air from underneath because that's how coal burns best. This stove received heavy use for 32 years and the fire box was completely intact with absolutely no damage when I sold it. Dual fuel stoves are designed to tolerate the high heat value of coal without damage.

Greg

Uhhh you do realize i am a cimney sweep working in central pa which is still coal country right. I know coal burns hotter but its ash stays on the grates better and the temps on the grates are much lower with coal. I work on many dual fuel stoves and the ones where the customers burn wood with the lower intake open usually show signs of overheating. Yes some de assl with it pretty well. Harmans are amazing in that respect their grates almost never warp. But i have seen lots of warped moroso grates. I am just trying to give you the benifit of my years of experince working on stoves. If you dont want to listen that is up to you.

 

[bholler]

I don't have any home insurance to have problems with because I choose to assume personal liability for what I built myself. The title to the house belongs to me free and clear, and unencumbered by debt. So because it isn't owned by a mortgage company, there no requirement for me to insure it for someone else. I understand that you likely live under different circumstances from mine, and that you have expressed perfectly valid liability fears of your own and need to buy insurance because your living situation requires it.

As to why I modified the stove... the European Morso Squirrels have fully adjustable primary air controls so I made mine operational too. I've been using wood stoves for 46 years and so am pretty familiar with their operating principles. Even so, I welcome your opinions because there's always something new to learn.

Greg

Yes and those stoves are dual fuel. They are meant to be run with the bottom air closed for wood.

 

[Alpine1]

Yup, the Morso stoves have adjustable primary air here... To be honest, I have yet to see a stove that has the primary air control locked. Old world, old rules maybe...

 

[Squirrely]

Just to clarify things... from your Morso Squirrel #1410 Operating Manual, for North America, with the lower air control welded shut:

2.2 Lighting and loading intervals

When first lighting the stove, a large volume of air is needed. When the stove is cold, you

should leave the door open an inch or two for the first few minutes and open the primary air

supply completely. While the door is open, do not leave the stove unattended.


Warning: Fireplace stoves must never be left unattended with doors open.


If the door is left partly open, gas and flame may be drawn out of the fireplace stove opening,

creating risks from both fire and smoke. We recommend that you fit a smoke detector

in the room where the stove is installed.

With an operating primary air control there's no need to leave the door open while the fire is burning.


Greg

 

[Squirrely]

Yup, the Morso stoves have adjustable primary air here... To be honest, I have yet to see a stove that has the primary air control locked. Old world, old rules maybe...

All the #1410's imported into the US come from Morso factory with the lower air control welded shut.

The Old World enjoys a decided advantage over the New World.

Greg

 

[jetsam]

I don't have any home insurance to have problems with because I choose to assume personal liability for what I built myself. The title to the house belongs to me free and clear, and unencumbered by debt. So because it isn't owned by a mortgage company, there no requirement for me to insure it for someone else. I understand that you likely live under different circumstances from mine, and that you have expressed perfectly valid liability fears of your own and need to buy insurance because your living situation requires it.

As to why I modified the stove... the European Morso Squirrels have fully adjustable primary air controls so I made mine operational too. I've been using wood stoves for 46 years and so am pretty familiar with their operating principles. Even so, I welcome your opinions because there's always something new to learn.

Greg

You are never going to "win" an argument with bholler, but he offers a lot of good advice for free and has helped a lot of people.

I like your thoughtful and respectful argument, though.

 

[bholler]

Ok nevermind you obviously know allot more about stoves than I do. But honestly the 20 feet of single wall may be a big part of the problem.

 

[Squirrely]

Ok nevermind you obviously know allot more about stoves than I do. But honestly the 20 feet of single wall may be a big part of the problem.

What problem?

If you look back through this thread you'll find that I never referenced a problem. On the North American 1410's with the lower control welded shut, Morso recommends leaving the door open while the fire is burning. In my opinion this is a stupid practice, so I enabled the primary air control. Now the door can be immediately closed upon lighting the fire. When the fire is up to speed, I simply close the lower control as it is no longer needed.



In this video the lower disk is closed and the upper disk is open about two turns. With both, you have superb control to fine tune your fire optimally through all of its phases.

This isn't rocket science, you know.

Greg

 

[begreen]

What problem?

If you look back through this thread you'll find that I never referenced a problem. On the North American 1410's with the lower control welded shut, Morso recommends leaving the door open while the fire is burning. In my opinion this is a stupid practice, so I enabled the primary air control...

That is not correct. Morso only recommends having the door ajar for starting. This is a common practice for most wood stoves.

4. When the chimney is warmed through after 5-10 minutes, the door should be closed. A suitable ember bed will be formed after a further 15-20 minutes.[/QUOTE]

 

[Squirrely]

That is not correct. Morso only recommends having the door ajar for starting. This is a common practice for most wood stoves.

4. When the chimney is warmed through after 5-10 minutes, the door should be closed. A suitable ember bed will be formed after a further 15-20 minutes.

And continued...

Warning: Fireplace stoves must never be left unattended with doors open.

If the door is left partly open, gas and flame may be drawn out of the fireplace stove opening,

creating risks from both fire and smoke. We recommend that you fit a smoke detector

in the room where the stove is installed.

In my opinion this is silly when it's so much simpler to open the lower air control, light your fire, close the door immediately, and avoid creating that potentially hazardous situation altogether.

I fully understand that it's a factory recommended common practice for most stoves.

It isn't for mine.

Greg

 

[RobbieB]

As long as he closes the bottom vent after the fire gets going (a couple minutes) he will be fine. You get more air through an open door than that little vent opened an eighth inch or so.

I think they see an open door as more easily spotted (and remembered) than a bottom vent that you wouldn't know was open if you just looked at it.

Both cases give the fire more air to get started so they can then draw from the main source. No difference.

 

[bholler]

As long as he closes the bottom vent after the fire gets going (a couple minutes) he will be fine. You get more air through an open door than that little vent opened an eighth inch or so.

I think they see an open door as more easily spotted (and remembered) than a bottom vent that you wouldn't know was open if you just looked at it.

Both cases give the fire more air to get started so they can then draw from the main source. No difference.

I agree as long as the bottom air is closed early it will be fine. But directing air right under the fire is very different than air flooding in a door that is cracked open. Air under a wood fire creates an intense very high heat fire that can easily damage a stove

 

[Squirrely]

I agree as long as the bottom air is closed early it will be fine. But directing air right under the fire is very different than air flooding in a door that is cracked open. Air under a wood fire creates an intense very high heat fire that can easily damage a stove

Of course. Once the fire's going the primary air is no longer needed. It gets going easily with a good draw from below and I don't have to stand around waiting with an open door. This just comes down to personal preference.

My experience is different from yours. All of the air supply on my Efel is from below the fire and there is absolutely no damage whatsoever to the grate even after 32 years of heavy use.

 

[bholler]

Of course. Once the fire's going the primary air is no longer needed. It gets going easily with a good draw from below and I don't have to stand around waiting with an open door.

No but you have to stand around with the bottom air inlet open which btw it the primary air for coal not wood. It is not meant for use with wood. Honestly you would have been much better off if you had just gotten a wood stove instead of a modified dual fuel one. Modern wood stoves just work much better. You are dealing with a 40 year old design that was a better coal dtovr than wood stove to start with that is the main problem.

 

[Squirrely]

No but you have to stand around with the bottom air inlet open which btw it the primary air for coal not wood. It is not meant for use with wood. Honestly you would have been much better off if you had just gotten a wood stove instead of a modified dual fuel one. Modern wood stoves just work much better. You are dealing with a 40 year old design that was a better coal dtovr than wood stove to start with that is the main problem.

We'll just have to agree to disagree...
The stove works great and I'm free to do other things and come back later without the need to be there watching over an open door to an open fire.

My experience with wood stoves is different from yours. (and it's highly likely I live differently than you do ).

 

[bholler]

We'll just have to agree to disagree...
The stove works great and I'm free to do other things and come back later without the need to be there watching over an open door to an open fire.

My experience with wood stoves is different from yours. (and it's highly likely I live differently than you do ).

Yes my experience is as a professional working on all ages types and values of stoves every day. I diagnose problems fix issues and help people get the most out of their stoves as safely as possible. So yes a little different experience level. But obviously you know much more on the subject than i do despite my many years of training and experience.

Honestly i don't have an issue with you doing this to your stove if you want to risk destroying your investment more power to you. But you came on here and told others how to do it without a mention of the liability, durability or performance issues with your mods. That is irresponsible.

 

[RobbieB]

I'd have done the same thing. I think it safer than keeping the door open even just a crack. A lot more evil can come out from an open door than that little vent open an eighth inch.

 

[bholler]

I'd have done the same thing. I think it safer than keeping the door open even just a crack. A lot more evil can come out from an open door than that little vent open an eighth inch.

You also have an install that completly ignores ignores all manufacturer's instructions and many codes. So honestly your input on safety is pretty questionable. Also what bottom air inlet did you open up on your osburn?

 

[Squirrely]

I'd have done the same thing. I think it safer than keeping the door open even just a crack. A lot more evil can come out from an open door than that little vent open an eighth inch.

Of course. It's simple common sense, Robbie.

Greg

 

[Squirrely]

But obviously you know much more on the subject than i do despite my many years of training and experience.

I do.

Thanks for being honest enough to admit the truth.

 

[bholler]

To be clear to anyone reading this doing what is suggested here voids the ul listing and warranty. It opens you up to allot of liability. It also directs air up through the fire which could easily cause overfireing and severe damage to the stove.

 

[Squirrely]

(shrug) Every stove is subject to the potential of overfiring and severe damage.

 

[jetsam]

Someone ought to come up with some kind of thermostat that controls intake air to prevent overfiring.

 

[Squirrel1410]

Yes my experience is as a professional working on all ages types and values of stoves every day. I diagnose problems fix issues and help people get the most out of their stoves as safely as possible. So yes a little different experience level. But obviously you know much more on the subject than i do despite my many years of training and experience.

Honestly i don't have an issue with you doing this to your stove if you want to risk destroying your investment more power to you. But you came on here and told others how to do it without a mention of the liability, durability or performance issues with your mods. That is irresponsible.

I'm glad he shar d the info, and I wouldn't call it irresponsible. It obviously voids the warranty and any lab testing, therefore insurance coverage if discovered, if the house burns down, if used irresponsibly.

Theee's so much red tape these days regarding anything done to a house or appliance, especially in my state, that I just stopped worrying about it. It's up to a homeowner whether they deem something a risk or not and choose to do it. I think the possible adverse consequences have been well explained on this thread, so I wouldn't call it irresponsible at all.