My first 650 miles with a BEV

[stoveliker]

I already have a truck, and only drive it when I need to, so we will be looking for a compact SUV/Crossover/Hatchback when is time for the next car. This is why I mentioned a hypothetical Panda EV, it would suit our needs perfectly.

So, I googled the current Panda because "compact" did not match what I was talking about - miniature was a better word for it: my Jeep remark was related to the Panda from the 80s:

 

[SpaceBus]

This came out in 2015, so getting to be a bit dated, but exactly what I'm looking for in our next car.

 

[peakbagger]

You just need a LJ 70 https://www.guyswithrides.com/2019/08/09/1990-toyota-land-cruiser-ii-lj-70/

They are still made in the middle east. The US government buy them for special ops and are still the preferred military vehicle for many parts of the world because they are so tough and ultimately

Note the HILux pickup and the LJ share the same chassis frame and running gear

With modern port injected diesel they get good gas milage and there are firms that convert them to electric for mining https://www.tembo4x4-elv.com/

 

[EbS-P]

You just need a LJ 70 https://www.guyswithrides.com/2019/08/09/1990-toyota-land-cruiser-ii-lj-70/

They are still made in the middle east. The US government buy them for special ops and are still the preferred military vehicle for many parts of the world because they are so tough and ultimately

Note the HILux pickup and the LJ share the same chassis frame and running gear

With modern port injected diesel they get good gas milage and there are firms that convert them to electric for mining https://www.tembo4x4-elv.com/

The Panda references on top gear are great too..

 

[SpaceBus]

You just need a LJ 70 https://www.guyswithrides.com/2019/08/09/1990-toyota-land-cruiser-ii-lj-70/

They are still made in the middle east. The US government buy them for special ops and are still the preferred military vehicle for many parts of the world because they are so tough and ultimately

Note the HILux pickup and the LJ share the same chassis frame and running gear

With modern port injected diesel they get good gas milage and there are firms that convert them to electric for mining https://www.tembo4x4-elv.com/

I would prefer something a bit less agricultural for our daily driver I remember watching the TG bit on the Hilux when it debuted, my family was stationed in the UK for three years when I was a teenager.

Also familiar with our military using them for special operations, I drove them in Afghanistan. We had both single cab Hiluxes and LJ70's. We also had a few Pradas that were pretty tough, and I think it was based on the 80's or 90's Land Cruisers with inline six engines and automatic transmissions, it was more of a camp truck and didn't leave "the wire". We had some late model Land Cruisers that had some serious armor and glass, and that's what left the wire if we weren't using GMV's or MATV's. Most SF guys I worked with preferred rolling in light weight GMV's, which is like a Humvee with no doors or top, a machine gun pintle mount for each seat, a turret, and two seats in the "cargo area" with machine gun mounts. In total it can carry five 240/249 machine guns and/or a M2, M19 or Minigun. Usually they rolled with three kitted GMV's and one MATV, which is a "lightweight" MRAP specially kitted out for special operations. I think they just brought it for the CROWS, which is a gun turret on the top of the vehicle that has cameras and is controlled from the inside. If teams were leaving the wire with "civilian" type trucks, it was usually because they were in an urban environment, didn't want to stand out too much, and also wanted more armor than guns.

 

[EbS-P]

Getting a Tundra up to Tacoma fuel economy isn't saying much, it was never an efficient vehicle. It will take a long time until hybrids or EV's can compete with diesel.

I guess it depends on how you define compete. From a range prospective I would maybe agree. From a total build cost maybe but Toyotas hybrid drive is really well thought out. In general his channel did a great job explaining their systems.

I think it only matters if you need extended 100+ Mile range. The BEV semis will be the end of big diesels for fleets. Once you know your routes I just don’t see how they complete. Add teslas ADAS to the mix it will alter the industry.

I get Toyotas V8 replacement hybrid. But I’d rather not have a turbo V6 but I don’t see the V8 staying in vehicle I would buy now that Nissan stopped their full size van. When it comes to towing the hybrid system could shine. How often do you need max power and for how long? 30 seconds max? Full electric power at any RPM is nice and even a trip from 0-80 won’t drain the battery. What transmission is going in the Tundra/Sequoia hybrid?

 

[begreen]

I already have a truck, and only drive it when I need to, so we will be looking for a compact SUV/Crossover/Hatchback when is time for the next car. This is why I mentioned a hypothetical Panda EV, it would suit our needs perfectly.

Does the wife know this is the plan for the family sedan?
There are several that offer dual-motor, AWD. Subaru is a latecomer. The Ford Mach-e, VW ID.4, Polestar2, Tesla Model Y, Volvo X40 recharge, Hyundai Kona EV, Jeep 4xe, and others from Jaguar, Audi, Mercedes, etc., and the Rivian R1S. For a crossover, the new Kia EV6 AWD looks interesting. In addition to being fully-featured, it can provide 1.9kW power to the home in the case of an outage. Next year GM will have an Equinox EV and Blazer too.

 

[SpaceBus]

Does the wife know this is the plan for the family sedan?
There are several that offer dual-motor, AWD. Subaru is a latecomer. The Ford Mach-e, VW ID.4, Polestar2, Tesla Model Y, Volvo X40 recharge, Hyundai Kona EV, Jeep 4xe, and others from Jaguar, Audi, Mercedes, etc., and the Rivian R1S. For a crossover, the new Kia EV6 AWD looks interesting. In addition to being fully-featured, it can provide 1.9kW power to the home in the case of an outage. Next year GM will have an Equinox EV and Blazer too.

Heh, her car is the 500 Abarth, she wants something a bit larger and better on our broken roads. Most of those vehicles you mentioned are quite expensive and not really rugged. The Jeep 4XE looks appealing, but Wranglers are quite agricultural vehicles even in 2022. Hopefully the future of EVs will offer something actually rugged, but nobody really offers anything like that. That's why I posted that Fiat Panda, it was designed for third world countries with dirt roads. With the exception of the Wrangler and maybe the Subaru all of those vehicles are just sedans/hatchbacks with large wheels and tall bodies. We might as well just keep on driving the Fiat Abarth. The Kona does look nice, but I doubt it would do well with our local logging roads with blacktop.

 

[stoveliker]

I'm surprised. The Fiat Panda has been (40 years) and still is designed for city driving - in Europe. Small, maneuverable and fairly cheap. They still market it as a city car.

So I'm curious what your source is for this being meant for third world countries ?

Not saying you're wrong, just that it is inconsistent with what I've learned - but what I've learned may be incomplete (see confirmation bias).

 

[begreen]

We live in a rural area with dirt roads, bumpy blacktop, and a long dirt driveway. Our Volt has done fine with them. Unless one is doing regular off-roading where exceptionally high ground clearance is necessary, the ruggedness factor may be over-rated. Most of these cars will certainly be as rugged or more so than the Fiat.
Oh, I forgot the Toyota Rav4 EV.

 

[EbS-P]

I'm surprised. The Fiat Panda has been (40 years) and still is designed for city driving - in Europe. Small, maneuverable and fairly cheap. They still market it as a city car.

So I'm curious what your source is for this being meant for third world countries ?

Not saying you're wrong, just that it is inconsistent with what I've learned - but what I've learned may be incomplete (see confirmation bias).

grand tour season 3 episode 2. Tha Panda in all its glory

Hey I’m watching The Grand Tour - Season 3. Check it out now on Prime Video!
https://watch.amazon.com/detail?gti...d434&territory=US&ref_=share_ios_season&r=web

 

[EbS-P]

We live in a rural area with dirt roads, bumpy blacktop, and a long dirt driveway. Our Volt has done fine with them. Unless one is doing regular off-roading where exceptionally high ground clearance is necessary, the ruggedness factor may be over-rated. Most of these cars will certainly be as rugged or more so than the Fiat.
Oh, I forgot the Toyota Rav4 EV.

Roads up north are different. Between the heavy trucks, frost heaves, and mud season, and salt the roads just abuse vehicles to a degree I never saw when we lived on the farm are were always driving on rural dirt roads.

If it were me I’d just keep an older AWD ICE and save the BEV for fair weather and nicer roads. What you save on west and tear on a new car is maybe worth whatever tax and registration is. Here’s a link explain if it’s better to keep your ICE

 

[SpaceBus]

I'm surprised. The Fiat Panda has been (40 years) and still is designed for city driving - in Europe. Small, maneuverable and fairly cheap. They still market it as a city car.

So I'm curious what your source is for this being meant for third world countries ?

Not saying you're wrong, just that it is inconsistent with what I've learned - but what I've learned may be incomplete (see confirmation bias).

The OG two wheel drive Panda was more of a city car, but remember European city roads are not smoot. Most are a patchwork of different materials, often including cobblestones. I should have specified Panda 4x4, which since it's inception was more like a Lada Niva than a city car. The Lada Niva is a bit more robust still and would be the perfect car for where we live on the edge of civilization, but that's even less likely to come here. Most Fiats have been historically sold in developing nations in Eastern Europe, where they were made under license for different brands. They were also popular in South America along with VW who sold more rugged designs there as well.

This place bangs up my diesel dually, a Volt would be just as susceptible to damage as our Fiat, which has had a lot of wheel bearing and suspension repair since moving here. Even after changing over to 15" wheels from the factory 17's. There's a fist sized dent on the barrels of one of the 17's. Even trying to be careful and dodge the potholes there's always one that sounds very expensive every time I drive. We live on a "three digit" paved secondary road that connects Cutler to Route 1 and it was paved in 2018. This winter really put a hurting on it and there are many 8+" deep pot holes, 8" tall bumps, ripples, and generally just beat to crap. Except for weekends there are always big rigs and dump trucks pulling equipment. This road is plowed by my previous employer and done with a dump truck, not very kind to the surface.


We couldn't even get a "nice weather car" for smooth roads, none of them are smooth North of Bangor/Ellsworth

 

[stoveliker]

Fiat - Official Website

Welcome to the official international website of Fiat. Discover our models, Fiat world, the history of the brand and all our latest news.

www.fiat.com

Featuring the 500 and the Panda.

Me thinks ole Jeremy (ab-)used the car for what it was not meant to do.


Edit: yes, 4 wheel is different.

Edit: Fiat sold a boat load in Western Europe too, not only Eastern (developing).

But, I do see a 4x4 not being useful in a city (just like a pick-up truck in NYC...)

 

[SpaceBus]

Fiat - Official Website

Welcome to the official international website of Fiat. Discover our models, Fiat world, the history of the brand and all our latest news.

www.fiat.com

Featuring the 500 and the Panda.

Me thinks ole Jeremy (ab-)used the car for what it was not meant to do.

Jeremy is not the only person to drive a Panda off road. You can google Panda 4x4 and rough roads and you will find plenty of articles and stories.

 

[begreen]

Tesla to Panda, this thread has jumped the rails. To get it back on track, note that Teslas are showing up on the rally circuits and winning. Aftermarket off-road packages are popular for the 3 and Y. Evidently it's a tough combo.

 

[stoveliker]

Well, to be fair, the thread is about BEV...

 

[EbS-P]

I think an all electric rally league would be awesome

 

[begreen]

I think an all electric rally league would be awesome

It's happening

 

[stoveliker]

That (rally) might be the best marketing to appeal to the "non-Tesla" crowd...

 

[begreen]

That (rally) might be the best marketing to appeal to the "non-Tesla" crowd...

Yes, fast but quieter and no exhaust, though still plenty of dust.

EVER Egypt

www.electricvehiclerally.org

 

[SpaceBus]

Tesla to Panda, this thread has jumped the rails. To get it back on track, note that Teslas are showing up on the rally circuits and winning. Aftermarket off-road packages are popular for the 3 and Y. Evidently it's a tough combo.

I could get on board with that.

 

[SpaceBus]

It's happening

I would buy a production Kona BEV if it came with that suspension. I don't necessarily need AWD, especially with a locking or limited slip differential, but the long travel suspension is what I'm looking for.

 

[EbS-P]

I could get on board with that.

Out of warranty model 3 dual motor under 100k miles. Throw 5k of suspension parts on it( just guessing at the $$ amount). And you could adjust the camber I do think third party batteries or battery service will be available to most before too long.

 

[SpaceBus]

Out of warranty model 3 dual motor under 100k miles. Throw 5k of suspension parts on it( just guessing at the $$ amount). And you could adjust the camber I do think third party batteries or battery service will be available to most before too long.

The Model Y is more appealing, I'm a wagon/hatch person and so is my wife. Looks like there's an ATB diff for Tesla drivetrains already. Model 3/Y dual motor long range battery with long travel suspension and good diffs would make for an unstoppable and comfortable year round driver. We haven't been further away from home than Bangor, 95-115 miles depending on which way we go, since November 2018 when we were on the way to our newly bought house. A 300+ mile range is plenty for us.