My first Outdoor Hydronic Furnace build....OHF

[all night moe]

I dunno what this Boiler Commander does exactly, but if it just monitors and controls the stack temp, that can be done easily with an Auber PID temp controller and a thermocouple...maybe $60-80 worth of parts

Universal 1/16 DIN PID Temperature Controller [SYL-2362] - $41.25 : Auber Instruments, Inc., Temperature control solutions for home and industry

Auber Instruments, Inc. Universal 1/16 DIN PID Temperature Controller [SYL-2362] - This temperature controller offers great value for its price as it is accurate, smart, reliable and equipped with more features than most controllers on the market (not just the similarly priced units). It is the...

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It's supposed to keep stack temp hot enough to keep a natural draft ''flowing,'' and keep the boiler from hitting the bottom of the differential longer. Keeps the draft fan off until needed at low temp setting. The unit takes place of the aquastat as well.

There's a guy on youtube who made his own as well, although he used an Ink bird controller for the stack temp. I'll see if I can find the vid and I'll share it here.

@cumminstinkerer and @jblnut most likely will have a bit more clearer info than I.

 

[jblnut]

It's supposed to keep stack temp hot enough to keep a natural draft ''flowing,'' and keep the boiler from hitting the bottom of the differential longer. Keeps the draft fan off until needed at low temp setting. The unit takes place of the aquastat as well.

It can also increase the draft fan to over 100% until the stack temp rises to get the fire going quicker. When it gets warmer out I have to keep the draft fan up fairly high or it’ll create such thick smoke inside that it’ll ignite the smoke and blow the water level indicator onto the ground. Not a big fan of that.

There's a guy on youtube who made his own as well, although he used an Ink bird controller for the stack temp. I'll see if I can find the vid and I'll share it here.

If it’s the guy that pulled the center of his multi pass out to clean it while he installed his Boiler Commmander he got the InkBird with the Commander from Joe. If it’s not him I haven’t seen it yet. Either way I’m excited to get it installed.

 

[all night moe]

If it’s the guy that pulled the center of his multi pass out to clean it while he installed his Boiler Commmander he got the InkBird with the Commander from Joe. I’d it’s not him I haven’t seen it yet. Either way I’m excited to get it installed.

No, it's not him. This guy sourced all his own parts off of ebay.

Hey, I'm just as excited as you are! From the sounds of it, you're saying this will change the fan speeds as well? I was wondering if it did this.

 

[jblnut]

No, it's not him. This guy sourced all his own parts off of ebay.

Hey, I'm just as excited as you are! From the sounds of it, you're saying this will change the fan speeds as well? I was wondering if it did this.

Yes it changes fan speeds based on the exhaust temp. Starts the fan up more than full blast and winds down as things get up to temp with it all but shutting off the fan but not closing the draft doors. At least that’s what he said.

I have an InkBird BBQ thermometer on the supply/return lines now and can check the stoves status from anywhere. Having the ability to control it from anywhere will be nice as well. I have a few InkBird devices doing various things around here.

They all show a graph if you want to see history. Red is shop supply. Blue is shop return. Orange is house return. The green one died yesterday and I haven’t swapped probes yet. You can set alarms for over/under temps. I have them all set to alarm at 188f on the high side and 120f on the cool side so I will get a alert if it’s too hot or chilled down too far and I need to go out and check things.

 

[cumminstinkerer]

@brenndatomu you are way more than sharp enough to get things, reach out to Joe he will talk to you about it, it varies fan speed and maybe varies intake opening size, I dont remember all of it! Joe is a great guy, as you are, if you can't find contact info for him pm and I'll get you in touch. As mike eluded to Joe has done automation for huge cattle barns for several years, he's got things down pretty good but he will take criticism too, sorry if that seemed rough at first, its just me, we have been back and forth before, you all know I don't type nor probably speak the best!

 

[cumminstinkerer]

@all night moe I really don't know much about the boiler commander short of what Joe has talked to me about, Mike is way more on that than me, I remember Joe saying that the fan speed part would be way more difficult on my polar because it already has an ECM fan that does its thing, again its been a while since we talked and I've been dealing with lots of weird electrical crap lately on vehicles so my brain may be a bit fuzzy about the conversation. I think Joe watches the forum some but not sure, I know he is a mod on at least one FB page along with me and Travis, aka Case1030!

 

[brenndatomu]

Sounds to me like he is controlling the existing fan motor by adding a VFD...which would open up a bunch of possibilities...

 

[cumminstinkerer]

Sounds to me like he is controlling the existing fan motor by adding a VFD...which would open up a bunch of possibilities...

essentially you are correct, I remember that much from our conversation

 

[jblnut]

Sounds to me like he is controlling the existing fan motor by adding a VFD...which would open up a bunch of possibilities...

I don’t think it’s a VFD as much as it’s an automated speed control instead of the spinny manual knob.

 

[brenndatomu]

an automated speed control

That's what a VFD (variable frequency drive) does, among other things...unless you get a VERY basic one maybe...give it an input, or feedback, some parameters, and bam, auto speed control.
The manual knob you mention must be like a router speed control? Definitely not near as cool, or useful.
He could be using an ECM blower motor too, but I doubt that he is going into that much work/expense...much easier to add a lil VFD on.

 

[jblnut]

That's what a VFD (variable frequency drive) does, among other things...unless you get a VERY basic one maybe...give it an input, or feedback, some parameters, and bam, auto speed control.
The manual knob you mention must be like a router speed control? Definitely not near as cool, or useful.
He could be using an ECM blower motor too, but I doubt that he is going into that much work/expense...much easier to add a lil VFD on.

Well aware of what a VFD does and how they work. I have them all over the farm. Last one I installed and programmed runs a 75hp well pump for an irrigator. Every single one is running a 3PH motor and I’m 100% certain the blower motor on my wood stove is not 3PH.

What is on my stove is more like a ceiling fan speed control. Single phase in, single phase variable speed out. It’s not difficult to find a digital speed control that runs off a few inputs similar to what a VFD does. I guess it’d technically be a variable speed device but not a true variable speed drive from how I know them.

Like this knob that runs the fans in my shop.

 

[brenndatomu]

Never mind, wasn't trying to start a sword fight.

 

[all night moe]

Never mind, wasn't trying to start a sword fight.

It's all good man.....and useful information.
I welcome it at least. I love learning stuff. Even at my young/old age .....lol

 

[sloeffle]

The boiler commander would most likely better suit me and keep complications out of the build.
BTW, it is said it can benefit any outdoor unit. Conventional or gasser.

Joe is full of BS (sorry for my bluntness) when he says that it can make a good gasification unit more efficient than what it already is. Stack temps from a good gasifier are already 300 - 400F. You don't want them much lower than that.

On a conventional or MP boiler, I would agree that it can help with blowing BTU's out the stack. Someone posted on the HM Facebook group that his stack temperatures on a C series MP boiler were 700F+ .

A friend and I from the HM FB group figured out some if not all of the parts that he's using. In 2025 dollars we were able to buy the parts on Amazon for a boilercommander for a few hundred dollars. Definitely not rocket science.

 

[sloeffle]

I have an InkBird BBQ thermometer on the supply/return lines now and can check the stoves status from anywhere. Having the ability to control it from anywhere will be nice as well. I have a few InkBird devices doing various things around here.

Do you have them in thermowells?

 

[jblnut]

Never mind, wasn't trying to start a sword fight.

Same. My intent was to convey I’m not new to the VFD world and it came off a bit snarky. Sorry about that.

Joe is full of BS (sorry for my bluntness) when he says that it can make a good gasification unit more efficient than what it already is. Stack temps from a good gasifier are already 300 - 400F. You don't want them much lower than that.

On a conventional or MP boiler, I would agree that it can help with blowing BTU's out the stack. Someone posted on the HM Facebook group that his stack temperatures on a C series MP boiler were 700F+ .

A friend and I from the HM FB group figured out some if not all of the parts that he's using. In 2025 dollars we were able to buy the parts on Amazon for a boilercommander for a few hundred dollars. Definitely not rocket science.

It isn’t rocket science by any means but he’s gone through the work and built them and marketed them. I sure wouldn’t do it for free so him charging more than parts cost is quite justified in my eyes. If I wanted to figure out how to build it I’m sure I can but I’d rather pay him for what he’s already done. I like burning wood but burning less is okay in my book.

Do you have them in thermowells?

Not a thermowell in the same sense as the control probe but yes kind of. I used aluminum foil tape to tape them to the pipes as close as possible to the boiler back and wrapped them with pipe insulation. It’s surprisingly accurate. I gave each channel a 2f offset in the InkBird settings pane to account for some loss. Basically I offset the supply probes on the InkBird to make them match what the built in quasar read.

Zoom in and you can see how they’re mounted.

 

[sloeffle]

It isn’t rocket science by any means but he’s gone through the work and built them and marketed them. I sure wouldn’t do it for free so him charging more than parts cost is quite justified in my eyes. If I wanted to figure out how to build it I’m sure I can but I’d rather pay him for what he’s already done. I like burning wood but burning less is okay in my book.

For sure, I don't expect people to work for free. My thought was / is, if someone wanted to build one themselves the part can easily be "bought off the shelf".

Not a thermowell in the same sense as the control probe but yes kind of. I used aluminum foil tape to tape them to the pipes as close as possible to the boiler back and wrapped them with pipe insulation. It’s surprisingly accurate. I gave each channel a 2f offset in the InkBird settings pane to account for some loss. Basically I offset the supply probes on the InkBird to make them match what the built in quasar read.

Much easier than having to install thermowells everywhere. I need to invest in some remote monitoring for my setup.

 

[jblnut]

For sure, I don't expect people to work for free. My thought was / is, if someone wanted to build one themselves the part can easily be "bought off the shelf".

Absolutely. That’s part of why I like Joes stuff. It’s simple stuff that you can get about anywhere.

Much easier than having to install thermowells everywhere. I need to invest in some remote monitoring for my setup.

InkBird IBBQ-4T. Hooks to WiFi and has been running outside nonstop for 3yrs now.

 

[all night moe]

BTW @jblnut , I'm liking the new avatar.
Besides being cool, that's a beautiful pic.

 

[all night moe]

Question for you boiler guys out there in the know. I understand water circulation is key to efficiency and longevity of the boiler.

I've started to draw, on graph, the latest draft of this redneck boiler. i have my supply pulling from the bottom front. It is being pulled through a "stand pipe'' to the bottom rear wall and welded into a bung fitting.

For my return, I have the option of using the rear manufacturer's fill port on top. I can use this, with a stand pipe dumping the return water, say 8 inches down. Or, I could come in through the top of the back wall again at the top. Same 5 inches and let the flow push towards the front along the top and above the burn chamber.

I am questioning my option for the return and/or if I should do anything different altogether.
All thoughts are appreciated.

 

[salecker]

My Econoburn has the hot water coming out the top and cold going in the bottom.
I have not seen anything that suggests any pipes inside to change the exit and entry points.
Remember the laws of thermodynamics are allays at work, trying to fight them makes for inefficacy.
Hot water rises, cold water sinks

 

[cumminstinkerer]

Question for you boiler guys out there in the know. I understand water circulation is key to efficiency and longevity of the boiler.

I've started to draw, on graph, the latest draft of this redneck boiler. i have my supply pulling from the bottom front. It is being pulled through a "stand pipe'' to the bottom rear wall and welded into a bung fitting.

For my return, I have the option of using the rear manufacturer's fill port on top. I can use this, with a stand pipe dumping the return water, say 8 inches down. Or, I could come in through the top of the back wall again at the top. Same 5 inches and let the flow push towards the front along the top and above the burn chamber.

I am questioning my option for the return and/or if I should do anything different altogether.
All thoughts are appreciated.

give me a few more days to monitor but as of right now the folks G3 is doing way better with hot drawing a few inches off the bottom at the rear, and return coming in the top rear with a flow directing pipe going 3/4 the way to the front but a tee in there directing some over top the main firebox! so far very even temps top to bottom. PM me and we can exchange numbers so we can chat a bit more.

 

[all night moe]

My Econoburn has the hot water coming out the top and cold going in the bottom.
I have not seen anything that suggests any pipes inside to change the exit and entry points.
Remember the laws of thermodynamics are allays at work, trying to fight them makes for inefficacy.
Hot water rises, cold water sinks

give me a few more days to monitor but as of right now the folks G3 is doing way better with hot drawing a few inches off the bottom at the rear, and return coming in the top rear with a flow directing pipe going 3/4 the way to the front but a tee in there directing some over top the main firebox! so far very even temps top to bottom. PM me and we can exchange numbers so we can chat a bit more.

I did note that most gassers I've paid notice too, pull off the top and return on the bottom. I always figured it was because the hottest burn is at the bottom of the stove. Pulling from the top and returning to the bottom theoretically should mix the temps very well.

For those who are unfamiliar with Polar, they have a supply manifold at the top of the water vessel. I find this interesting that cumminstinkerer is doing with his folks G3.

I can just as easily pull from the bottom rear, possibly with a short standpipe too, and use one of the top ports in the front for a return. While I'm thinking about it, a pair of manifolds would be nice also. Ports for 1 1/4 and 1''. The 1 1/4'' is for the main house. When I repurpose this boiler, I plan to heat my shop and the 800sq ft rental house. I'll only need 1'' lines then.

Looking forwards to your data finfing with your folks @cumminstinkerer I will be PMing you.

 

[brenndatomu]

I did note that most gassers I've paid notice too, pull off the top and return on the bottom. I always figured it was because the hottest burn is at the bottom of the stove. Pulling from the top and returning to the bottom theoretically should mix the temps very well.

I dunno about Polar, but I know Heatmaster G series has a small pump mixing the water in the boiler 24/7

 

[cumminstinkerer]

I dunno about Polar, but I know Heatmaster G series has a small pump mixing the water in the boiler 24/7

so does polar through a thermostatic valve, along with the quick connect manifold being incorporated in