My Lopi Liberty experience 2023/24

[Branimal]

Hoping this thread helps some folks. I upgraded from a modified (not by me) old Earth Stove to the Liberty. Backstory: I bought the Earth Stove used almost 20 years ago, with 6' of Metal-Fab double pipe for $150. I bought all the other pieces (more pipe, cap, flashing, ceiling box etc) directly from Metal-Fab. It has served us VERY WELL...Earth Stoves are beasts (2500 feet of sprawling ranch-style house). But it was time to upgrade due to inefficiency and physical failure of the stove (air control no longer working). I was looking at the Liberty and the Green Mountain 80, I went for the Liberty. It was installed today, and I had the pleasure of doing the paint cure burn (it was 75 here, so all windows and doors were open). I spent the day playing with the bypass, the air flow, and loading different size splits in different orientations...I'm so giddy. I'm looking forward to the increased efficiency and ease of a modern stove. Big cold front coming this weekend, I think the electric furnace will be getting a break.

 

[Todd]

Great looking install! Should be quite the upgrade.

 

[begreen]

It looks great there and a big improvement. Both the old and new stove look like they are right up against the stone? How thick is the stone behind the stoves? Is there an air gap behind the stone and the wall?

 

[Branimal]

It looks great there and a big improvement. Both the old and new stove look like they are right up against the stone? How thick is the stone behind the stoves? Is there an air gap behind the stone and the wall?

Stone to the right is the old exterior of the original (1942) one-room cabin chimney (several feet thick, all stone and mortar). Stone to the left is the old exterior wall of an added bathroom (1965), 15" thick, also all sandstone and mortar. With the Earth Stove, those walls radiated heat for hours I'm guessing they won't get as warm with the Liberty due to the heat shield.

 

[begreen]

That is quite a beautiful setting for the new stove.

 

[Kimkats417]

Hello! I just had a Liberty installed and m about to do my initial burns to set the paint and smoke myself out aand all that. The manual they give you isn’t that great in my opinion, so I would like to ask about the bypass damper. How hot do you need to get the stove before you push it in To engage it? The book just says “during normal operation” which pretty much tells me nothing.
I had a Dutchwest catalytic for over 20 years before this so I have woodstove experience- but this is a little different and I‘d sure appreciate any help you might have To offer!

thank you!

Kim Klein

 

[begreen]

This is a non-catalytic stove. The bypass is for easier starting and to reduce smoke spillage when opening the door for reloading. It gets closed once the fire is burning decently with the door closed.

 

[Branimal]

A few observations, and a question at the end. Tonight was my second night burning...in two nights these are my take-aways:

1) The Liberty is not built for "small" fires. I've learned to fill the box up and make it a small fire with the air control. I couldn't get more than 400 surface temp with a small fire last night.
2) Top down cold starts is the way to go. I did top down tonight vs. bottom up last night, and the difference was incredible. I lit the kindling up top, shut the door when it took off, and shut the bypass when well established. No poking, no adding more kindling, no adjusting air flow.
3) I need smaller splits. Graduating up to a Liberty from the Earth Stove is a definite learning curve. My wood is split large, and while that is OK for reloads/overnight, it's like playing tetris.
4) My overnight burn lasted a good 7 hours, getting the stove going this morning (before my family woke up) was a breeze.

My question: my stack is 4' inside, 12' attic/outside with plenty of clearance of the roof line and straight upwards. I never had an issue with reloads with the air hog Earth Stove. When I reload the Liberty (full bed of coals) I take my time with the door opening, creeping it open to establish draft (after opening bypass of course). Sometimes I get smoke spillage with just coals, but my main concern is reloading. By the time I put in my first level of splits, they are smoking out of the door. All of the videos I've seen show folks leisurely tossing logs in with the door wide open, but I feel like it's a race to get it loaded and the door closed. It was so bad tonight I could only get the bottom row of wood in. It's too late to wait for it to burn down and try again, so I'll let it go. I've tried reloading with the stove air control wide open as well as closed...any tips would be appreciated.

EDIT: 34 degrees outside, 74 inside at the time of reloading.

 

[moresnow]

Assuming your venting is straight up and out? No 90's etc?

Any chance you can schedule reloads on less residual fuel left in the stove?

Sounds like you're working your way to a solution.

Good luck

 

[Branimal]

Assuming your venting is straight up and out? No 90's etc?

Any chance you can schedule reloads on less residual fuel left in the stove?

Sounds like you're working your way to a solution.

Good luck

Correct, straight flue. I'm definitely in need of a new reload schedule...another thing to adjust/learn when changing stoves after 20 years.

 

[Todd]

Try opening the bypass and turning air on high for a good 5 min then slowly open the door. Also might be a good idea to crack a nearby window beforehand, you may have a little negative pressure issue.

 

[Branimal]

Try opening the bypass and turning air on high for a good 5 min then slowly open the door. Also might be a good idea to crack a nearby window beforehand, you may have a little negative pressure issue.

Thanks for the suggestions...tried that a bit ago and still had smoke spillage. I highly doubt I have negative pressure, my house is old and very sieve-like lol. I'm kind of concerned how this will work out when it's really cold and I want to load without having to wait for the coals to cool down (stove top was 250 when I reloaded this evening). Then again, maybe the draft will be much stronger when its 10s and 20s instead of the 30s and it will solve itself.

 

[Branimal]

Interesting development...the last 2 days, the bypass was stiff when opening/closing. This morning it slid open easily (as expected), I reloaded, and then the damper was stuck open, it wouldn't budge AT ALL. I tried jiggling the rod, no luck. I shut the air off as I didn't want the load of old dry cherry to run unbaffled, sat down for a second cup of coffee. By the time I finished the cup, the baffle was able to move again, although with heavy resistance, to half way closed then stopped. Eventually was able to close it completely by working it back and forth. Calling the dealer when they open later today, the stove was installed a week ago.

As an aside, I read the Liberty Oil-Canning thread, and I get one of those loud "pings" occasionally. Not quite as loud as the videos in that thread, but not your normal heating/cooling creaks/tings.

 

[Branimal]

Dealer/installer came out this morning. Bypass rod pieces would not completely join, we're guessing that is what caught on on the flue collar and wouldn't let me close. Fella went to the local hardware, bought the appropriate tap/die and came back. Put the rod back together, reinstalled and everything is working well (shoulder fire tonight, was 68 but getting down to mid 30s).

 

[Sealcove]

Enjoy the new stove. I am going into my third winter with a Liberty NexGen heating around 2000 sq ft. Looking forward to getting mine going, but there has been very little need so far here in Maine this fall. Looks like we might see colder temps by this weekend.

On the smoke issue, I found that to be a learning curve when I switched to the Liberty. It is a big door and depending on how hard the chimney is pulling, just swinging it open quickly can be enough to reverse flow to some degree. As suggested above, using bypass and getting the stove and chimney hotter helps, as does going slow with the door opening. I still forget at times and can get some smoke, but usually I can do it right and fully open the door for reloads without any major smoke.

 

[Branimal]

Enjoy the new stove. I am going into my third winter with a Liberty NexGen heating around 2000 sq ft. Looking forward to getting mine going, but there has been very little need so far here in Maine this fall. Looks like we might see colder temps by this weekend.

On the smoke issue, I found that to be a learning curve when I switched to the Liberty. It is a big door and depending on how hard the chimney is pulling, just swinging it open quickly can be enough to reverse flow to some degree. As suggested above, using bypass and getting the stove and chimney hotter helps, as does going slow with the door opening. I still forget at times and can get some smoke, but usually I can do it right and fully open the door for reloads without any major smoke.

I've been burning off and on since installation...you know, new toy and all lol. I've ran it enough to be confident in usage. With my 15' straight flue, when it's colder outside, I have no problems with smoke. When it's warmer, I open the door in increments of an inch every minute or so get the draft working more. I'm ecstatic with my decision to buy, it's such an easy stove to run once you learn its behavior. Light/reload it, let it catch, set the air and walk away. Seeing nothing but heat exit the stack is a great feeling.

 

[GreenLiving57]

I'm into my second season with my second Liberty (I'm the "oil can guy")...........love the heat it produces, and although it's a very noisy stove overall, it doesn't have the "bangs" of my first one.
I have a Hearthstone Heritage running in another part of my home so constantly compare the two. My Hearthstone rarely smokes when reloading, my Liberty you have to be very careful when reloading......take a few seconds to crack door to help draft get really "hot", but if you have a smoldering coal/split close to the door, you are "a-gonna-get" some smoke pretty much every time. My Hearthstone is nearly completely quiet, my Liberty clicks and clangs a lot of the time.

I get my Liberty up to 750 very quick, love the heat, my main issue now is the darn ashpan, it ALWAYS sticks, and the handle is a total pain. I have lubricated, worked it a lot, and tried to figure out a fix, but I just live with it at this point, but in my mind it's a very poorly engineered ash pan, and I can't believe it left the factory working at clumsily as it does. Don't even ask to "contact Lopi or your dealer" about this - they have totally blown me off due the year long fiasco described in my oil canning thread, and won't respond to me at all. When they delivered my second stove with the bend/ding in the rear, they completely broke off contact from me at that point, daring me to sue 'em. After months and months of dozens of calls, & e-mails I decided to live with my bent up 6 grand stove that puts out a ton of heat! woo hoo.......er.............

Oh, and as a side note, my first "banging" Liberty's ash pan and handle worked great. Can't have it all I guess.........

 

[Branimal]

I'm into my second season with my second Liberty (I'm the "oil can guy")...........love the heat it produces, and although it's a very noisy stove overall, it doesn't have the "bangs" of my first one.
I have a Hearthstone Heritage running in another part of my home so constantly compare the two. My Hearthstone rarely smokes when reloading, my Liberty you have to be very careful when reloading......take a few seconds to crack door to help draft get really "hot", but if you have a smoldering coal/split close to the door, you are "a-gonna-get" some smoke pretty much every time. My Hearthstone is nearly completely quiet, my Liberty clicks and clangs a lot of the time.

I get my Liberty up to 750 very quick, love the heat, my main issue now is the darn ashpan, it ALWAYS sticks, and the handle is a total pain. I have lubricated, worked it a lot, and tried to figure out a fix, but I just live with it at this point, but in my mind it's a very poorly engineered ash pan, and I can't believe it left the factory working at clumsily as it does. Don't even ask to "contact Lopi or your dealer" about this - they have totally blown me off due the year long fiasco described in my oil canning thread, and won't respond to me at all. When they delivered my second stove with the bend/ding in the rear, they completely broke off contact from me at that point, daring me to sue 'em. After months and months of dozens of calls, & e-mails I decided to live with my bent up 6 grand stove that puts out a ton of heat! woo hoo.......er.............

Oh, and as a side note, my first "banging" Liberty's ash pan and handle worked great. Can't have it all I guess.........

I've only opened the ash pan once, and that was to see how small it is. I dip my ashes, always have and apparently always will! I have noticed the Liberty does not heat the "main" part of my house like the Earthstove. I have a few theories on this. First is the heat shields keep the stone corner from heating up. With the old stove, they would get almost too hot to touch and would radiate heat for hours after the stove cooled. Secondly, the new stove sits much lower (at least a foot) since I removed the stone riser of the hearth...this seems to pull more cold/push more warm air in the opposite direction (into the log cabin room where my boys have bedrooms). And lastly, the interior pipe is now double walled and doesn't get very hot (vs single wall with the Earthstove). I've been considering posting a diagram of our house (including elevation, fan placements, and ceiling heights) to garner some feedback...I have a lot of time of off from work later this month, so will work on that and put it on here.

 

[GreenLiving57]

I have learned, that the ash pan's main purpose (for me at least) is to use a a super charged starter air flow thingy. I read this on another thread with some with a Liberty. You have to be careful, as within a few minutes (seconds sometimes) it will sound like a Jet engine, but it's the quickest way to get a raging fire in the Liberty. But using the ash pan as an ash pan, is a joke - most ashes stay in the main part of the stove anyway. I gave up trying to get the ash pan out to empty, it's just too clumsy to do. I simply use my ash shovel to scrape them outa there when I empty the main part of the stove which is a couple times a week during main burning season.

There is a lot I love about my Liberty, and a lot I love about my Hearthstone. If I could combine the good parts of both, I would have a perfect stove. That side door on the Hearthstone is the cat's meow for sure, and it sure is a lot purtier' than the Liberty - but the Liberty blows it away for heat output. There was a large Hearthstone they made a few years ago that didn't have all the new stuff I don't like - I wish I had bought one of those back then.

 

[Sealcove]

I have a different take on the Liberty ash pan. On one hand, it is clearly a work around for an existing stove design. It is far from perfect, and I find the biggest weakness to be the drawer type door system. I think it would take one small mistake to screw that up, and I assume it is where I will one day have an issue.

For me the pan itself works fine and I use it everyday if I am burning full-time. Like with other stoves, all of the ashes are not going to fall in there on their own, but I keep an old heavy shingle on hand to carefully scrape the ashes over the grate and into the pan. In about 20 seconds I am done, and for me it is easily less work and mess than shoveling them out the front door. Not perfect, but I am glad to have it.

 

[GreenLiving57]

There is SOMETHING that keeps sticking on my Ash Pan, both the sliders, and the handle. I can spray some W-D40 all over it, and it loosens up for a few days. Then back to normal, sticking, and the handle is so hard to open and close, it hurts my hands. It's completely different than my first banging Liberty, where I had no issue with the Ashpan. Something in this ash pan was poorly built/fitted. I noticed this the first time I pulled the Ash pan out, before a fire had ever been lit - so it definitely LEFT THE FACTORY THIS WAY.

I don't want to mess with the nut that holds the handle on. As of now, although a pain - it works. I would hate to worsen the situation, seeing as though I have been written off by my dealer and Lopi customer service. (anyone wondering about this, spend some time and read my oil-canning thread for all the nitty gritty details of what a bad customer I am)................

 

[Branimal]

I said I would update, so after 3 months of burning in the new stove, I'll keep my word . I've definitely had to adjust my "usage" of the stove (reload schedule, split size, air control, etc.) but I could not be happier. Now that winter has properly arrived, I don't think I've seen much of a decrease in wood consumption. I'm 100% certain the heat shielding is why as the corner does not gain any heat at all and the double wall pipe isn't radiating any meaningful heat either. I also no longer have a key damper. However, rather than loading wood every 3-4 hours, we are loading every 8-ish and not worrying about over-firing. Our rain cap/spark arrester is almost spotless (vs. the old stove when I had to clean the flue 2-3 times a season). The continual, consistent heat has kept our expensive electric furnace mostly dormant this year. I did use the insert located on the other end of the house when it was "cold-cold" (highs in the teens lows in the singles or negative for a week straight), but that was mainly for comfort. All in all, I am so glad I bought this stove. For eye candy, here is a pic from an hour ago...you can see the size of splits I'm using (smaller than the last stove) and the amount of wood we use daily. I bring in a wheelbarrow from the shed every day after work, stack it up so it warms up before we throw it in. All of the wood you see will be replaced in 24 hours. Air intake just a smidge open from fully closed. Reloaded at 5:30 pm.

 

[Branimal]

Interesting development this morning at 1 am...my 18 year old son woke me up, stating the kitchen floor was "hot and bubbly". I got out of bed and as soon as I left my bedroom at the opposite end of the house could smell the stove was running hot. STT was cruising around 650 and firebox was completely firing. My wife did the overnight load at 11:40 and came to bed. The load was a mix of very seasoned oak, beech, and walnut. Air control wasn't as closed as I do for an overnight, but it was 85-90% closed. It was 90 degrees in the stove room (kitchen), which I've never seen. The warmest it gets in there is 80-82 (even when running hard when it's colder out). My biggest concern is my floor directly off the front of the hearth, which is laminate planks. That spot typically gets warm due to the radiant heat through the glass, but last night it was almost too hot to touch and had developed a couple large "bubbles" (not actively bubbling, but rather air pockets). I wish I had the foresight to grab my IR temp reader. Hearth clearance is right at 16" from the door. The air bubbles were directly centered with the hearth, just off the stone/mortar from where the green lighter is sitting in the photo below. One air bubble was abour 5"X16", the second 5"X6". Other than the potential/assured damage to the flooring, should I be concerned? Are there any mats/rugs etc. that have insulative properties I should consider placing on the floor? Or should I just chalk it up to the cheap facelift flooring we bought to tide us over until we can remodel the kitchen properly? I'm not overly concerned about the flooring, but was very concerned about how hot the floor was.

 

[thewoodlands]

A few observations, and a question at the end. Tonight was my second night burning...in two nights these are my take-aways:

1) The Liberty is not built for "small" fires. I've learned to fill the box up and make it a small fire with the air control. I couldn't get more than 400 surface temp with a small fire last night.
2) Top down cold starts is the way to go. I did top down tonight vs. bottom up last night, and the difference was incredible. I lit the kindling up top, shut the door when it took off, and shut the bypass when well established. No poking, no adding more kindling, no adjusting air flow.
3) I need smaller splits. Graduating up to a Liberty from the Earth Stove is a definite learning curve. My wood is split large, and while that is OK for reloads/overnight, it's like playing tetris.
4) My overnight burn lasted a good 7 hours, getting the stove going this morning (before my family woke up) was a breeze.

My question: my stack is 4' inside, 12' attic/outside with plenty of clearance of the roof line and straight upwards. I never had an issue with reloads with the air hog Earth Stove. When I reload the Liberty (full bed of coals) I take my time with the door opening, creeping it open to establish draft (after opening bypass of course). Sometimes I get smoke spillage with just coals, but my main concern is reloading. By the time I put in my first level of splits, they are smoking out of the door. All of the videos I've seen show folks leisurely tossing logs in with the door wide open, but I feel like it's a race to get it loaded and the door closed. It was so bad tonight I could only get the bottom row of wood in. It's too late to wait for it to burn down and try again, so I'll let it go. I've tried reloading with the stove air control wide open as well as closed...any tips would be appreciated.

EDIT: 34 degrees outside, 74 inside at the time of reloading.

We've had a Lopi Liberty since 2008 or 09. This is what I do that works pretty good that should help out on your smoke spillage. The first thing I do is shut the fan off, second thing is open the bypass, third is close your air down & the last thing is crack the door. That should concentrate the wood stove draft up the pipe.

I'm pretty sure another member posted this on Hearth so it isn't anything I came up with but it works for us.

Since we heat from the basement, smaller loads during the day heats our house better so I don't agree with your statement about smaller loads. I do load it up for a longer burn time at night with beech & ironwood. (American Hophornbeam)

 

[thewoodlands]

Interesting development this morning at 1 am...my 18 year old son woke me up, stating the kitchen floor was "hot and bubbly". I got out of bed and as soon as I left my bedroom at the opposite end of the house could smell the stove was running hot. STT was cruising around 650 and firebox was completely firing. My wife did the overnight load at 11:40 and came to bed. The load was a mix of very seasoned oak, beech, and walnut. Air control wasn't as closed as I do for an overnight, but it was 85-90% closed. It was 90 degrees in the stove room (kitchen), which I've never seen. The warmest it gets in there is 80-82 (even when running hard when it's colder out). My biggest concern is my floor directly off the front of the hearth, which is laminate planks. That spot typically gets warm due to the radiant heat through the glass, but last night it was almost too hot to touch and had developed a couple large "bubbles" (not actively bubbling, but rather air pockets). I wish I had the foresight to grab my IR temp reader. Hearth clearance is right at 16" from the door. The air bubbles were directly centered with the hearth, just off the stone/mortar from where the green lighter is sitting in the photo below. One air bubble was abour 5"X16", the second 5"X6". Other than the potential/assured damage to the flooring, should I be concerned? Are there any mats/rugs etc. that have insulative properties I should consider placing on the floor? Or should I just chalk it up to the cheap facelift flooring we bought to tide us over until we can remodel the kitchen properly? I'm not overly concerned about the flooring, but was very concerned about how hot the floor was.

View attachment 324947

I didn't mention in my post below but the Lopi Liberty will takeoff temp wise if you load it up with beech, sugar maple or any good seasoned hardwood even with the air closed down all the way. I've learned to control the stovetop temps by the size of the load.

I would be worried about the flooring in front of your hearth, do you have a fan on your Liberty.