My shot at calc. payoff time for wood stove...

[Bster13]

(broken image removed)

I've been in my new house since 5/1/2012. The Gas Bill chart data points from right to left... Oct-Dec. are actual data points, and the data points from Jan-May are trendlines/estimates I used in Excel. The average low temperatures are from:
http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/06854

If I figure my Blaze King Princess Insert and install plus tax and then adding in the cost of chain saw, splitting ax, and other various wood tools (I get my wood for free, and I plan on sweeping the chimney myself) come in under $5k, then my payoff time would be <3 years given no change to the insulation of the house or abnormal temperatures.

Granted it's just an estimate, but I wanted to make sure the payoff time wouldn't be far too long before I bought the goods. Anyone see any major flaws or things I should factor in?

 

[tigeroak]

Your about right with that type of stove. We will get a payback on stove and pipe in 1 year burning . Everything else[saw, wedges, maul and so on]I already had as I burn wood in my shop .We just got our gas and electric bill today and last year was 286.00- this year was 101.00 . If it wasn't for the darn 25.00 delivery charge our bill would be even less.

 

[Bster13]

That's a good point, Thanks. While I plan on burning "24/7," even in the shoulder season, I will have a gas delivery charge and there will be times where the stove goes out and the gas boiler kicks in. So somewhere in between 3-4 year payoff if my gas bill projections are relatively close.

 

[tigeroak]

We burn 24/7 and we don't has a furnace any more. Fron what I read on here and on the net you will be fine with that stove . Ialmost went with the big boy blaze king but we sat down and put it on paper and we went with the U.S Stove 2000. Sure I have to load more times but it fits our house just right.

 

[remkel]

That is about the payoff time I figured for my new installation when I was scrounging for wood. Now that I am buying by the grapple load every other year, I have added a year to that payoff.

 

[PapaDave]

Amortize the cost over the life of the various stuff you bought, and you'll feel better. Say, 25 years. "Gee, this whole setup only cost me $8.32/month!" I know people who spend more than that in a day on coffee.
There's the comfort factor too. You'll be warmer with the stove. What's the ROI on that? I'd say...immediate.
Don't fret it too much. You'll get your payback very quickly. Don't forget the cost increases of other fuels....long term.
I save approx. 1300-1500/year using wood compared to Nat. gas, and that should get even better once the new stove gets here.
I'm in for the long haul. It's more than the money.

 

[ArsenalDon]

If I figure my Blaze King Princess Insert and install plus tax and then adding in the cost of chain saw, splitting ax, and other various wood tools (I get my wood for free, and I plan on sweeping the chimney myself) come in under $5k, then my payoff time would be <3 years given no change to the insulation of the house or abnormal temperatures.

Granted it's just an estimate, but I wanted to make sure the payoff time wouldn't be far too long before I bought the goods. Anyone see any major flaws or things I should factor in?[/quote]

My bills were 600 so my payoff was half that time....amazing

 

[Bster13]

Yeah, haven't gotten that far as to how long the stove will last (with regular maintenance), just worked on the payoff time. The payoff time would be greater with oil heat, but I'm not complaining.

 

[PapaDave]

Holy Canoli, Don.
I did a couple quick calcs after starting this adventure.
How many BTU's am I using?
Do a conversion/comparo with wood and gas cost. Whichever comes out less, wins.
Done....and done.
So, based on BTU's, Nat. gas would run about $200/ month. I can buy my wood much cheaper than that, and I now am getting most of my wood free (yeah, right), so that skews the numbers further to the wood use column.
Now, all I need to do, is work on keeping the heat IN the house.

 

[PapaDave]

Yeah, haven't gotten that far as to how long the stove will last (with regular maintenance), just worked on the payoff time. The payoff time would be greater with oil heat, but I'm not complaining.

As long as you don't do something too goofy with the stove, you could safely plan for 20 years or more. Easily.
My stove is about 28 years old and still cranking away (except for the previous owner grossly overfiring it).
Of course, in 20 years, you'll have your own household nuke plant, so, there's that to factor in.

 

[ailanthus]

There's the comfort factor too. You'll be warmer with the stove. What's the ROI on that? I'd say...immediate.

Exactly! My whole household is in a better mood ~3 months out of the year since we switched from forced air oil to wood. Likely the coldest night of the year here & I'm sitting in my living room barefooted. Two years ago I would've had three layers on, still wouldn't have been warm enough, all while spending ~$2K per year on oil.

BTW, I like your calcs. I had conservatively estimated a 4 year ROI since I had to have a new chimney put in as part of the install and will be buying some of my wood. Even so, it feels like it's already paid for itself after 1 year.

 

[adrpga498]

Luckily my stove paid for itself back when they still taught cursive writing in school. Now if the kids (adult) did the same , I'd be all set.

 

[eclecticcottage]

I don't know if the lifespan of the stove would be something I'd calculate in, since boilers/furnaces also have a given lifespan.

Only other factor would be fuel, oil, chains, chain sharpening if you don't do your own, etc. Maintaining your equipment type expenses.

We couldn't really do a payoff here, since we never used the boiler system that was here-it was shot when we bought the place. The guy that took the old LP tank said he came out usually 2-3x a year to refill, but I don't know if it was full tank loads or not. I basically figured the payoff was pretty much instant, given we would have had to pay for a new boiler, lines and baseboards if we went the "traditional" route anyway. With copper so expensive it was probably even between the cost of that and the stove/install, we already had a saw.

 

[PassionForFire&Water]

Some more numbers.

In the New England area cord wood is between $7 to $8 per 1,000,000 BTU and natural gas is between $16 and $17 per 1,000,000 BTU

Propane is insane, at $33 per 1,000,000 BTU

So, cord wood is about half the cost of natural gas, just looking at your "fuel"

 

[rijim]

Having the little woman warm and happy without going broke; PRICELESS.

 

[ddahlgren]

My break down from last year getting parts together.
Used Avalon Pendleton stove 400.00
Moving cost to me 100.00
Duravent plus parts 385.00
Labor to install Duravent 150.00
Floor pad parts 200.00
Wall heat shield parts 250.00
Odd parts stack pipe etc 100.00
Total 1585.00


Fuel oil @150 gal/month 6 months -2250.00
Fuel oil use when stove is out 200.00
Wood 3 cords 450.00

So about 1600/year

First year is a break even second year is 1600 savings depending on wood pricing and temperature. What is different and not possible to quantify is I am much more comfortable heating the house to 74 instead of 64 and wearing a sweat shirt and thermal underwear indoors. An interesting side thought as well is i live in a 1870s house and still 90% plaster walls. The rooms with plaster walls are slow to heat and slow to cool so still warm hours after stove is off overnight, I have not mastered more than a 4 hour burn with the little 1.3 cu ft firebox. My well seasoned splits are too big to stuff the firebox so the best I can do is put in one large one for a 50% fill so 3 to 4 hours and with weather in the teens and no storm windows closer to run it hard to get the house up to76 reload a run slow for a few hours let the house coast down start again in the early am. I usually wake up very early so when i get up around 65 in the house and the old fuel oil temp inside. Woke up at 3 am today but sometimes asleep at 8pm earlier today as my back bothering me and curled up on the couch in front of the stove after dinner so who knows when I fell asleep..LOL.. It is mid 80's there and like a sauna soothing my back how do you put that into the payback formula? I think beyond the actual savings it is a lifestyle and comfort statement that goes beyond the actual savings in money. Last year with 3 inches of snow and below 20 degrees the concept of making dinner in a tee shirt and boxer shorts would be impossible so it is all about comfort for me and the cash savings is a big plus. I think what I am trying to say is you can put it all in money terms but the comfort is hard to put a cash value. Another plus is usually we have a storm or two that can put the power out for a week at a time and has happened in the last two years. Haveing a warm house with out playing the generator game refueling every 3 hours is priceless. The funniest thing I ever saw was my young neighbor couple running a generator to keep food cold with no power on a 30 degree night. I had everything that had to be cold in 2 Coleman coolers with latches outside in the snow..LOL the house 74 degrees and life goes on I can easily live without tv and have a gas stove to cook on.the only time to start generator was to get hot water for a shower and run furnace for an hour twice a day to not freeze pipes in the cellar. So dishes done laundry done me clean out of a hot shower and life goes on.

 

[mellow]

I don't have oil to drill for on the farm and the neighbors got mad at me when I tried fracking, so I guess I will stick with wood. The neighbors and wife don't seem to mind that mess as much.

 

[Bster13]

If my living room is mid 80s I will be pissed! The goal for me is mid 70s throughout the house. Perhaps a DIY solar hot water heater for your power outage needs? I plan on doing one to further cut my Nat Gas bill.

 

[ddahlgren]

If my living room is mid 80s I will be pissed! The goal for me is mid 70s throughout the house. Perhaps a DIY solar hot water heater for your power outage needs? I plan on doing one to further cut my Nat Gas bill.

Wish I could I live in a historic district and they do not allow anything that will change the look of the house to any degree. No solar panels sky lights trim that does not match the house windows have to either be original or exact reproductions it is crazy. When I put the wood stove in a few weeks after 10 days of no power there was a bit of a rumble and my only comment was i am not asking for permission to stay warm.

 

[dja950]

Id say my break even point will be early next winter. My stove, hearth, and chimney inspection cost slightly over 2000. Plus 600 for wood delivered my first year. Im lookin at 2600. This is my first year in this house and ive asked people with similar sized homes what their cost for propane was for the winter ranged from 1800 to 2200 and that was keeping heat at 68ish. Im keeping mine at 72 on when im home. Been hoarding wood ever since i bought it and ive got next years all split and stacked so wood should be mostly free from here on out, maybe a little bit here and there. So early to mid next winter ill be paid off and pocketing money....Wish i could get rid of the propane but my hot water is propane, highly doubt itll be cost effective to go replace a water heater just to say Im not using propane, that and id like to have backup heat if i were to leave town for an extended period.

I can say living out in the county in my area absolutely makes sense to use wood or coal. Idk about the suburbs/city with natural gas. My last house was natural gas and my highest electric/gas bill combo was 170 and average for winter was 150. so about 70-100 was natural gas a month. Although i was only there a year and last winter was milder so i dont have much to compare it to. But going off those numbers, the wood option probably wouldnt be worth the extra work/mess/etc. Especially having my already small yard filled up with stacks of wood.

Out in the country with no natural gas, Wood is no doubt the way to go and i love it.

 

[mfglickman]

Some more numbers.

In the New England area cord wood is between $7 to $8 per 1,000,000 BTU and natural gas is between $16 and $17 per 1,000,000 BTU

Propane is insane, at $33 per 1,000,000 BTU

So, cord wood is about half the cost of natural gas, just looking at your "fuel"

What's your price on cord wood? If I pay $130/cord for green wood, c/s, then I have 16,000,000 BTUs in that cord (130/8=16)? I've already burned over 2 cords this winter in my 40,000-ish BTU stove...not sure I'm understanding your numbers correctly here.

 

[PassionForFire&Water]

here is the link to the NH calculator: http://www.nh.gov/oep/programs/energy/documents/fuel_price_calculator_NH_02-23-12.xls

The block on the right-hand side of OEP’s website (www.nh.gov/oep) lists current energy prices in NH. By changing the fuel unit costs in column 3 of the calculator, you can get updated costs.

The assumptions and equations for the calculator are on the “advance Calculator” tab.

This calculator was originally developed by the Dept of Energy so no worries about plagiarism or whatever.

Where I live, in Eastern Mass, I see cord wood price from $250 to $350.
The prices all all over.

Your $130/cord corresponds with $6.5 per 1,000,000 BTU

 

[ddahlgren]

What's your price on cord wood? If I pay $130/cord for green wood, c/s, then I have 16,000,000 BTUs in that cord (130/8=16)? I've already burned over 2 cords this winter in my 40,000-ish BTU stove...not sure I'm understanding your numbers correctly here.

I live on the shore 500 ft from LI sound so my weather gets moderated by the water. Warmer in the winter and cooler in the summer. I have plastic on the windows other that the room the stove is in and shut off un needed parts of the house that is only 1400 sq feet to begin with. I don't burn 24/7 as when I am in the shop it burns out by 9 am and do not restart until 4 pm so maybe that makes a difference. I have read here that dry wood that will go from coals to lames in under 90 seconds is dry enough. The stuff I have for cold days like today will go from coals for flames in 10 to 15 seconds and burn for a couple of hours they are about 8 inches to 10 if you drew a circle around them. I think it is all about the wood and energy management only heating what needs to be heated rather than getting the whole house warm when it does no need to be warm.

 

[mfglickman]

here is the link to the NH calculator: http://www.nh.gov/oep/programs/energy/documents/fuel_price_calculator_NH_02-23-12.xls

The block on the right-hand side of OEP’s website (www.nh.gov/oep) lists current energy prices in NH. By changing the fuel unit costs in column 3 of the calculator, you can get updated costs.

The assumptions and equations for the calculator are on the “advance Calculator” tab.

This calculator was originally developed by the Dept of Energy so no worries about plagiarism or whatever.

Where I live, in Eastern Mass, I see cord wood price from $250 to $350.
The prices all all over.

Your $130/cord corresponds with $6.5 per 1,000,000 BTU

I guess I'm choking on the real world BTUs vs. the potential (scientific) BTUs of each unit in the spreadsheet. My furnace is oil, hot air, about 75% efficient and rated for 80,000 BTUs. So I guess right there, I lose BTUs from the "potential" 138,000 BTUs of a gallon of oil. Just like my stove is not 100% efficient, nor is my pellet stove.

I figure the costs by what I've actually used to achieve actual results in my house...the theoretical numbers just don't add up for me (though if they did I'd pay off the 2 stoves, install, tools and insulation a whole lot faster, lol).

I live on the shore 500 ft from LI sound so my weather gets moderated by the water. Warmer in the winter and cooler in the summer. I have plastic on the windows other that the room the stove is in and shut off un needed parts of the house that is only 1400 sq feet to begin with. I don't burn 24/7 as when I am in the shop it burns out by 9 am and do not restart until 4 pm so maybe that makes a difference. I have read here that dry wood that will go from coals to lames in under 90 seconds is dry enough. The stuff I have for cold days like today will go from coals for flames in 10 to 15 seconds and burn for a couple of hours they are about 8 inches to 10 if you drew a circle around them. I think it is all about the wood and energy management only heating what needs to be heated rather than getting the whole house warm when it does no need to be warm.

I'm guessing this wasn't actually in reply to my post, if it was I'm afraid I've missed the point.

 

[PassionForFire&Water]

The real world BTU's is where the efficiency of the appliance comes into the equation.

If you look at the advanced section in the spreadsheet, you see that heating with wood pellets is not much more expensive then using cord wood.
Although the cost per 1,000,000 BTU for wood pellets is significantly more then for cord wood

Even an EPA wood stove is around 17% less efficient of an average pellet stove.
The stack temp of a wood stove is around 500F-700F, versus a pellet stove around 300-350F
All this energy is wasted up the stack.