My Wiseway non electric stove experience

mikelcan Posted By mikelcan, Oct 23, 2013 at 1:45 PM

  1. pellet powered

    pellet powered
    New Member 2.
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    Dec 9, 2013
    18
    1
    Loc:
    Rutland, Vermont
    Cool.
     
  2. David E Girard Sr

    David E Girard Sr
    New Member 2.
    NULL
    

    Dec 4, 2013
    8
    1
    Loc:
    Wilmington Vt
    Ok, Fellow Burners, I Too Purchased A Wise Way Pellet Stove, I Had A Good First Burn, 650 Degrees, About 14 Hours On A Bag Of Cubex, Went Out Of Town 5 Days , Came Home Fired Up The Wiseway, Found It To Be Lazy,Would Not Go Over 500, Poked And Prodded The Ashes , Went To Bed , Next Morning Went Into My Basement, And Guess What, BURN BACK, It Was Smouldering Right Up To The Bottom Of The Hopper, Temp Was 150 At The Guage, Shut The Fuel Off, Removed The Secondary Burn Pot And Pushed The Black Smoking Pellets Into The Ash Pan, About 6 Times, Before I Got It All, Smoke Detectors Billowing, My Wife Asking Whats Going On, I Think My Wise way Days Are Over, Have A Call Into The Factory, Something About Sealing Them Up??? , Not Convinced, I Think Its Going Back, ,,, I Should Have Bought Battery Back Up For My P68, And It Would Have Been Less Money For Sure,, I Got Very Wise In A Different Way, This Stove Is Hooked Up To A 22 Ft Masonary Chimney, With Outside Air,,, Just To Let You Know,, And I Have Been Burning Wood And Pellets For About 30 Years Now,,
     
  3. pellet powered

    pellet powered
    New Member 2.
    NULL
    

    Dec 9, 2013
    18
    1
    Loc:
    Rutland, Vermont
    first of all,
    In my humble opinion and limited knowledge, your 22 foot chimney is way too tall to support a proper draft. I also would not recommend a basement installation for the WiseWay- that's just me. The Wiseway works best with an 8 to 15 foot chimney- it does not list that fact in the manual because professional installation is encouraged however, I have seen online resources that state that fact. If you told them your chimney was 22 feet, they shouldn't have sold it to you or they at least should have given you the facts. Also, the Wiseway burns softwood pellets best. They all burn Douglas fir pellets out west where the stove is made. As for myself and others here in New England, we have had great luck with Vermont Wood Pellets and Barefoot Pellets out of PA. I don't know where your from so I don't know what brands are available to you. You could also try adjusting the spacing in the primary burn basket as this will produce more heat and possibly adequate draft. I spaced my basket so that it just barely fit into the primary chamber and it made a big difference. So far, the WiseWay has kept my house at 70 degrees without the help of fans or other appliances. It's been in the teens to low 20s outside. Burning just barely over a bag of Vermont Wood Pellets a day! Vermont Wood Pellets are Super Premium pellets with less than .5 percent ash and are made 10 minutes from my house. So, conveniently, I have an ideal fuel for the Wiseway close by. The main thing here is customer support. I hope you purchased the stove from a dealer that will help you sort this all out. I know I did and I don't know where I would be without them!
     
  4. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart
    Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division 2.
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    Nov 18, 2005
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    Who is your dealer pellet powered?
     
  5. pellet powered

    pellet powered
    New Member 2.
    NULL
    

    Dec 9, 2013
    18
    1
    Loc:
    Rutland, Vermont
    Gravity Feed Stoves in White River Junction, VT. I also sell the stoves in Rutland, VT.
     
  6. saladdin

    saladdin
    Feeling the Heat 2.
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    Dec 29, 2011
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    Loc:
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    In the service we were never allowed to use the word "retreat" it was always "retrograde". I use that word years after I was discharged and it still makes me laugh.
     
  7. Harvey Schneider

    Harvey Schneider
    Minister of Fire 2.
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    Oct 9, 2012
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    Loc:
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    It's funny how we substitute a word for one that we don't want to say. After a while everybody knows that the substitute word means the same thing and we have ruined another word (perhaps tainted is a better verb for that). Still, "retrograde" sounds better than "run away" and "burn back" sounds better than "hopper fire", but we all know what it means.
     
  8. David E Girard Sr

    David E Girard Sr
    New Member 2.
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    Dec 4, 2013
    8
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    Loc:
    Wilmington Vt
    Ok, I Hear What You Are Saying, I Shot From The Hip And Should Have Thought A Little First, I Did Do Some Research And Found First What You Said, I Did Widen The Basket Some, Made A Big Difference, I Have A Draft Regulator Coming To Adress The Chimney , I Am Burning It Today And I Will Say Its The Only Source Of Heat On And My House Is At 72 Degrees Upstairs, I Am Going To Shorten My OAK As Well, As Far As Pellets Go I Also See That They Are Making Or Already Have Made A Hardwood Pellet Basket ,My Dealer Had Limited Knowledge Of This Stove, I Did Research It A lot Before I Bought It, I Believe I Can And Will Make It Work For My Application , Sorry If Offended You , Like I Said , Shot From The Hip, I Do Believe In These Units, I Am Located In The Mt Snow Region Of Vermont ,Knowledge Is Power And I Was Lacking Some, I Think I Will Be Sorting This Out Myself,,,,,,,,,
     
  9. tjnamtiw

    tjnamtiw
    Minister of Fire 2.
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    Mar 9, 2009
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    Since I am always a sucker for the oddball, unconventional stuff, I've been following the Wiseway posts and their forum. One thing that struck me as curious was the fact that the hopper lid is not gasketed and sealed, which would prevent burn back since there would be no oxygen up there. My old gravity fed coal stove, a Franco Belge, has a heavy cast iron lid with a gasket. The coal ran down and out onto the burning bed of coal as the bed burned down. No possibility of a burn back. Why wouldn't they do the same thing to the WiseWay?

    To the OP >>> In your photo, you show the fire extinguisher next to the stove. NEVER put it next to where you expect a fire! You don't want to run INTO the fire to GET the extinguisher! Put it across the room, so you can run to the fire WITH the extinguisher. ;em:ZZZ
     
  10. David E Girard Sr

    David E Girard Sr
    New Member 2.
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    Dec 4, 2013
    8
    1
    Loc:
    Wilmington Vt
    Funny, I Thought The Same Thing, I Sealed Some Openings Around The Feed Sleeve, And Added A Hopper Gasket ,Actually From A Harman P68, And So Far So Good, They Are Supposed To Be Sealing Up The New Ones ?? Great Stove, It Is 72 In My Home , Its -1 Outside , Its The Only Heat On Right Now,, And Its In The Basement,,
     
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  11. pellet powered

    pellet powered
    New Member 2.
    NULL
    

    Dec 9, 2013
    18
    1
    Loc:
    Rutland, Vermont
    No, you did not offend me. I just want to make sure the FACTS are out there as this is an amazing stove.
     
  12. pellet powered

    pellet powered
    New Member 2.
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    Dec 9, 2013
    18
    1
    Loc:
    Rutland, Vermont
    That's right. All of the current stoves out there are sealed as far as I am aware. All of the stoves I have installed were sealed. I'm not sure why yours wasn't.
     
  13. pellet powered

    pellet powered
    New Member 2.
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    Dec 9, 2013
    18
    1
    Loc:
    Rutland, Vermont
    BTW- Nice to make your acquaintance fellow Vermonter! If hardwood is your only option, you can try the hardwood basket. I have one if you want it. Personally, I think finding a super premium softwood is the much better option.
     
  14. tjnamtiw

    tjnamtiw
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    Mar 9, 2009
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    I hope they are putting latches on the hopper cover to pull it tightly down onto the gasket because just sitting it on, IMHO, wouldn't seal it well enough to stop a possible natural draft.
     
  15. webbie

    webbie
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    Nov 17, 2005
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    I'd say the proof will be in the pudding when 500 or more are out there in various installations and 95% of them work fine.....might take some time, though.....

    Until then, it's going to be a learning experience. Trying to regulate chimney draft (or height, which only relates to one small part of draft) is a VERY difficult proposition! Way back when the first catalytic stoves were sold, I talked to the engineers that designed them...and they also said that a certain exact range of draft was required to make them work best. Of course, when they didn't work perfectly, they didn't burn back! So that's a different story....

    Even the same chimney will vary vastly in draft based on the weather, the wind, the stack temp and other factors. This is one major reason that most pellet stoves use fans...they can regulate the draft....

    Sure, it's possible that a stove like this can and will work. But it's not as simple as it sounds.
     
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  16. pellet powered

    pellet powered
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    Dec 9, 2013
    18
    1
    Loc:
    Rutland, Vermont
    Thanks Webbie! I agree. What I believe will make or break this learning curve is customer support. Just like those catalytic stoves you mentioned, p
     
  17. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart
    Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division 2.
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    Nov 18, 2005
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    What makes pellet stoves work is the safety features that shut it down when things go to hell in a handbasket. What in the Wiseway handles that?
     
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  18. pellet powered

    pellet powered
    New Member 2.
    NULL
    

    Dec 9, 2013
    18
    1
    Loc:
    Rutland, Vermont
    Thanks Webbie! I agree. What I believe will make or break this learning experience is customer support. Just like those catalytic wood stoves you mentioned (I grew up with one), professional installation is a must. As for the WiseWay, It's important for the company selling it to have a working knowledge of the product as it is so new and different. For example, as you said, draft is effected by weather, wind and stack temperature. The average customer when faced with these challenges, wouldn't necessarily know what to do, especially if they have never had experience with a wood stove. They might get discouraged quickly and give up altogether if there wasn't a dealer to support them and fix the issues they are faced with. I believe most, if not all issues will never occur if the stove is professionally installed. Alas, as a dealer, I have access to a tool chest full of solutions. For one, simple adjustments can be made to the stove's primary burn basket to increase stove temperature thus increasing flue temperature. There are also products like the Vacu Stack that can induce draft and eliminate the effects that wind and weather have on it. In most cases, the Vacu Stack is unnecessary but it is a solution to wind turbulence. The non electric pellet stove is here and I think the WiseWay is going to prove itself a winner based on the performance that has already been proven in the field and the dealer network that has been established to support it and it's owners. Who knows, the pudding may come along sooner than you think ;)
     
  19. tjnamtiw

    tjnamtiw
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    Mar 9, 2009
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    The question of what methods are in place to shut the stove down in case of a runaway or other problem is a real world question! It seems to me that for a non-electric stove, the solution must also be non-electric. I would propose a fusible link at a strategic area of the hopper that would release a CO2 or Ansul bottle to kill the fire. Pretty simple but effective.
    I read about minute adjustments in the width between the bars in the burn pot making huge differences in burn rates and I wonder if this should be an area of focus to eliminate problems in the field. Perhaps rather than parallel bars that can get bent or warped into misalignment, the burn grate should really be a grid where cross bars would hold everything in alignment.
     
  20. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear
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    Nov 10, 2008
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    Barometric Damper maybe?
     
  21. stoveguy2esw

    stoveguy2esw
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    Nov 14, 2006
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    i wonder if one could rig a mechanical fuel interrupter that allowed fuel to be displenced in batches so that the ful travel of fuel wouldnt be constant, so that it would release say 10 lbs to the bottom and burn it then release 10 more. kinda preventing a constant trail of fuel all the way up
     
  22. pellet powered

    pellet powered
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    Dec 9, 2013
    18
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    Loc:
    Rutland, Vermont
    All the WiseWay stoves I have installed have been installed with barametric dampers. It is my understanding that this is highly recommended to all stove dealers and owners. A traditional damper is discouraged by the manufacturer so the barametric is the only logical solution. Any dealer not passing this information along is to blame for any runaways. Also regarding hopper fires, all current stoves being shipped from the manufacturer now have seals installed so that there is no oxygen in the hopper area, thus eliminating the possibility. The reason why that was not done originally, and this is direct from the manufacturer, is that they never had a burn back issue until the stoves were sold on the east coast and people started burning cheap hardwood pellets in the stove. Softwood pellets and sealed hoppers make things so much simpler. Also, by design the hopper area was originally left unsealed so that a stove owner could easily remove the hopper and heat shield and install a second water heating jacket on the back side of the stove. Of cours, Once that was done, the hopper and heat shield is reinstalled. Now the owner will have to reseal the hopper area as well.
     
  23. Woodsmythe

    Woodsmythe
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    Jan 2, 2014
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    Loc:
    Vermont,USA
    I joined the ranks of Wiseway owners about a month and a half ago. Overall I'd say I'm happy, maybe a 5 or 6 out of 10. We have an circa 1830 approx. 3000 sqft.brick farmhouse in Northern Vermont we are constantly improving. During our first winter the oil bill exceeded $1,000/ month December through February for hydronic baseboard. Something had to be done!!! We have run a pellet stove in the basement and one on the first floor, fairly centrally located, for about 4 years. . We spend a lot of time in the same room with the first floor pellet stove and the noise problem was significant. When the downstairs stove ( an Austro-Flamm Integra) required another very expensive repair, the Wiseway, with no discontinued circuit boards and expensive sensors, seemed like the way to go. The set up was simple. It was a one for one swap with the stove we had on the first floor (it and it's noise moved to the basement). The Wiseway does have quite a learning curve to operate. I work from home and good and bad I'm always trying to "dial it in". It is higher maintenance than the other two stoves. It runs best clean, so while you may not have to clean it as often as I see fit the performance suffers.

    For the most part our stoves are running 24/7 and I clean the Wiseway daily (a whisker more than a bag a day). Our former consumption was about 8 tons/ year. It's looking like the Wiseway will be helping reduce that amount. The heat production seems fine. Without a blower, we're playing with fans to move the heat around. The burn back issue is significant although experience with how the stove works will help with this. We have only had some smoke, no fires. I have found that balancing the "after-fire" air of the chimney and the "pre-fire" air of all the many in take points, is the key to smoke free operation. The Wiseway appears to take in to much "pre-fire" air and gives heat and smoke the tendency to rise into the pellet supply. In the manual Wiseway mentions adjusting the (primary air flow{ their term ], pre-fire air { my term } by moving the secondary burn plate out for more air, in for less. The problem with this is there is an intake port, that can be attached to an outside air supply, that enters this area at 90 degrees causing all sorts of turbulence and to much input. In my situation I can't access outside air and found if I place a pellet pipe clean out cap over the intake port it creates much better linear flow of pre-fire air over the burn basket, makes the secondary burn plate adjustment much more effective, and tips the balance drawing smoke and heat down towards the burn basket and up the chimney. Sorry for the length of this. Looking forward to questions.
     
  24. begreen

    begreen
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    Thanks for the helpful tips and thoughts Woodsmythe and welcome.
     

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