Need a wood stove for deer camp

[JimRT]

Hello, I'm new to the forum, but have seen a lot of good info looking at reviews and comments for various stoves. I have done the recommended reading and am now looking for your input.

I am now in the market for a woodstove to use at the new camp. I had an inspector come out and he confirmed my suspicion that the old Heatilator fireplace unit is rusted beyond repair. We agreed that a freestanding woodstove would be the best option. I have approximately 700 sq. ft. to heat, configured in an L shape with the kitchen and living room open to each other, two bedrooms and a bath off the kitchen. The cabin has a mix of old single pane windows and newer thermopane, R13 fiberglass batt insulation in the walls, and unknown ceiling insulation. Relatively low overheads, with a shed style sloping roofline (no cathedral ceilings or lofts). The floor under the old fireplace is concrete slab. I do plan to have the new stove professionally installed. So... keeping budget in mind (lets say 1K max. for the stove itself ) Here are the 3 I have been interested in so far;

The Englander 13 NCH
The Drolet Pyro Pak
The Vogelzang Defender

I am in no way attached to any of these three, they simply seemed to fit the need and budget, but no hard feelings if you tell me I'm off base with any or all of them.

The cabin is located in Western New York. I intend to use the stove as the sole heat source, there are a couple of electric heaters built into the walls, as well as a number of portable electrics left by the previous owners. I am skeptical of the electric heat for both safety and economic reasons. The cabin will get shut down for the season at the end of November. Thanks in advance for your thoughts and recommendations.

 

[begreen]

Welcome. Is this a heatform style metal fireplace with a masonry chimney? If so, is a stove on the fireplace hearth, venting up the chimney with an insulated liner an option? Or are you thinking another location for the freestanding stove with a new metal chimney system?

 

[JimRT]

Welcome. Is this a heatform style metal fireplace with a masonry chimney? If so, is a stove on the fireplace hearth, venting up the chimney with an insulated liner an option? Or are you thinking another location for the freestanding stove with a new metal chimney system?

Not a masonry chimney, steel pipe, goes straight up thru ceiling. I would like to use the same location, installer said new pipe needed. Pics attached.

 

[begreen]

Got it. So is the plan to tear it out completely?

Of the stoves you have listed, the 13-NC has the largest firebox and it's made in the US. It's been around for a good long time and should be trouble free. One thing to consider however is the chimney height. The 13NC is going to want about 15' flue system height from floor to chimney cap. Another stove to consider is the more modern Englander 50 SSW01. (Also sold as Summer's Heat brand). It's a bit larger and has turned out to be a good heater. https://www.lowes.com/pd/Summers-Heat-2000-sq-ft-Wood-Burning-Stove/999918844

 

[JimRT]

Got it. So is the plan to tear it out completely?

Of the stoves you have listed, the 13-NC has the largest firebox and it's made in the US. It's been around for a good long time and should be trouble free. One thing to consider however is the chimney height. The 13NC is going to want about 15' flue system height from floor to chimney cap. Another stove to consider is the more modern Englander 50 SSW01. (Also sold as Summer's Heat brand). It's a bit larger and has turned out to be a good heater. https://www.lowes.com/pd/Summers-Heat-2000-sq-ft-Wood-Burning-Stove/999918844

Yup, plan is to tear it all out, (the old one sits on rotten plywood, and I may need to repair the sill plate and studs behind it. The wall to the left of the current set up was bad, plate to right of it is solid, so no telling where the rot ended / began)

How accurate are the square foot ratings ? I am concerned about going overboard. I have spent nights at a friends place and have to sleep with fan on, window open and no blanket to keep comfortable.

 

[begreen]

If this is a cold cabin that will need to be brought up to temp from say 30 or 40º, then go overboard. It takes a lot of heat to warm up the mass of a cold building. If there is already a primary heat system and the stove is supplemental, then no need to oversize.

Note that some stoves like the 13-NC have a low, short base. That raises the hearth insulation requirement. However, if the stove sits on a cement slab or cement blocks on top of the slab then this is not an issue.

 

[blades]

Drolet is a subsidiary of SBC corp ( Canadian mfg.) they have pretty good marks as well as Englander. Course I am biased towards Englander as I am on my 2nd NC 30 ( big brother to the 13, 2 different installs) Summers Heat and Timber Ridge are the same stoves sold at home depot and other retailers that said there is a backdoor deal that sells Englander stoves or the other 2 brand names that have been refurbished for what ever reason.
I was just looking at Englanders web site and the Madison is not there ( auto set back unit) and if I remember correctly there is another stove similar to it that is also not listed but one or the other showed up on the home depot site. Now is about the time that a few deals show up as well at retailers along with the rest of the fall and winter line ups including wood splitters.

 

[Mike M.]

My opinion would be to get a stove at least 2.0-2.5 cu feet. You want at least a 10 hour burn if out hunting all day. No one wants to come back to a cold cabin after hunting in the woods all day. Put the double wall class A chimney in yourself, I have done 2 with the help of this site, its easy. If you can operate normal power tools you can install a wood stove. Start cutting, splitting and stacking wood now. New stoves require well seasoned wood that is also stored out of the weather like in a garage, on a porch, in a basement, or in a wood shed. Grab yourself some kindling from pallets or 2x4 cut offs to get your fire started quickly when you arrive at the cabin.

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[JimRT]

If this is a cold cabin that will need to be brought up to temp from say 30 or 40º, then go overboard. It takes a lot of heat to warm up the mass of a cold building. If there is already a primary heat system and the stove is supplemental, then no need to oversize.

Note that some stoves like the 13-NC have a low, short base. That raises the hearth insulation requirement. However, if the stove sits on a cement slab or cement blocks on top of the slab then this is not an issue.

My opinion would be to get a stove at least 2.0-2.5 cu feet. You want at least a 10 hour burn if out hunting all day. No one wants to come back to a cold cabin after hunting in the woods all day. Put the double wall class A chimney in yourself, I have done 2 with the help of this site, its easy. If you can operate normal power tools you can install a wood stove. Start cutting, splitting and stacking wood now. New stoves require well seasoned wood that is also stored out of the weather like in a garage, on a porch, in a basement, or in a wood shed. Grab yourself some kindling from pallets or 2x4 cut offs to get your fire started quickly when you arrive at the cabin.

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Mike, Thanks for the advice ! I usually stay away from doing jobs that require wall / ceiling penetrations. The wood gathering needs to be done, this year I may end up purchasing wood due to time constraints. I have a drainage issue I need to address at the cabin so that's a weekend shot doing that. I work every other weekend so... time flies. There is alot of dry, smaller stuff for kindling and early in a fire around that will be easy to gather up. Also my wife crafts with pallett wood so I have lots of scrap pallet wood around at home.The 10 hr burn would be great, I like the sound of that. Coupled with Begreens point about starting with a cold camp I believe I may need to raise my sights on size of stove.

 

[Mike M.]

Buying wood is always an option, here are the issues:

-99.9% chance the wood will not be seasoned

-its likely the wood may be cut too long for the stove

-the wood may need to be split smaller to fit the stove

-many wood sellers will be sold out after the 1st cold days of winter

-mixed hardwood could mean anything

Instead of buying wood consider bio bricks (basically brick shaped compressed wood) from Tractor Supply or other similar type store. The bio bricks are super dry and burn well in modern stoves. I have burned about 3 pallets of them over the last few years while I worked to get ahead on wood and bought and sold different properties.

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[JimRT]

Buying wood is always an option, here are the issues:

-99.9% chance the wood will not be seasoned

-its likely the wood may be cut too long for the stove

-the wood may need to be split smaller to fit the stove

-many wood sellers will be sold out after the 1st cold days of winter

-mixed hardwood could mean anything

Instead of buying wood consider bio bricks (basically brick shaped compressed wood) from Tractor Supply or other similar type store. The bio bricks are super dry and burn well in modern stoves. I have burned about 3 pallets of them over the last few years while I worked to get ahead on wood and bought and sold different properties.

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Great ! Never heard of the bio bricks, but that's why I asked for help from you guys !

 

[JimRT]

Just doing a little more on line shopping and notice a feature for outside air hook up. Is this a desirable thing ? If it's on the stove does it need to be used ? In my opinion the fewer holes in the wall the better.

 

[Ludlow]

Stove in my avatar is 2.0 cu ft. tube stove. We have 800 sq ft plus loft on piers. Stove will make you open the windows if you crank it. We do use the oil furnace to bring to temp on arrival though. A cold start would take a very long time.

 

[Sawset]

Don't forget about radiant heat though - heat coming off the glass. Sitting in front of the fire early on is less about the overall room temp and more about the heat radiating straight off the stove. We have chairs 5ft from the stove, and they are occupied quite a lot, especially when coming into a cool cold house. Granted, 50 would be the cold cool temp.

 

[Mike M.]

Just doing a little more on line shopping and notice a feature for outside air hook up. Is this a desirable thing ? If it's on the stove does it need to be used ? In my opinion the fewer holes in the wall the better.

For the description you provided of the cabin my opinion would be that the outside intake air option...referred to as OAK would not be required. If you want some light reading before bed time read the few hundred OAK threads on this site.

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[begreen]

Just doing a little more on line shopping and notice a feature for outside air hook up. Is this a desirable thing ? If it's on the stove does it need to be used ? In my opinion the fewer holes in the wall the better.

My guess is the place is leaky enough not to need it. It can be added later if desired.

 

[begreen]

Stove in my avatar is 2.0 cu ft. tube stove. We have 800 sq ft plus loft on piers. Stove will make you open the windows if you crank it. We do use the oil furnace to bring to temp on arrival though. A cold start would take a very long time.

How cold do you let the house get? There's a huge difference from bringing a place up from 60 or 65º than from bringing it up from stone cold 20º.

 

[begreen]

Another option for getting the Englander (aka Timber-Ridge/Summers Heat), new or refurb.
(broken link removed to https://amfm-energy.myshopify.com/collections/timber-ridge-brand-new-factory-seconds-or-manufacturer-refurbished-stoves/products/epa-certified-madison-wood-stove-1250171200)

 

[JimRT]

My guess is the place is leaky enough not to need it. It can be added later if desired.

yeah, it's Far from airtight

 

[JimRT]

Another option for getting the Englander (aka Timber-Ridge/Summers Heat), new or refurb.
(broken link removed to https://amfm-energy.myshopify.com/collections/timber-ridge-brand-new-factory-seconds-or-manufacturer-refurbished-stoves/products/epa-certified-madison-wood-stove-1250171200)

That looks interesting, I'm not real concerned with cosmetics. I do get 10% off at Lowes (veterans discount) , but this would still save me over 40.00. Thanks for the tip !

 

[Ludlow]

How cold do you let the house get? There's a huge difference from bringing a place up from 60 or 65º than from bringing it up from stone cold 20º.

It is a deer camp. I am referring to conditions when we arrive and it has been vacant/unheated. Sometimes it can be in the 20's inside. Oil furnace gets the place up to temp then gets shut down. If the stove was used for that it would take a very very long time. Once the place is warm the stove is more than enough.

 

[begreen]

@JimRT does the cabin have a primary source of heat besides the wood stove or will the wood stove be it?

 

[JimRT]

@JimRT does the cabin have a primary source of heat besides the wood stove or will the wood stove be it?

The wood stove will be it. There are a couple of small electric heaters built into the walls. One in the living room, one in the bunk room. I have not yet even tried them, (we only closed on the place a month and half ago) . I am very skeptical about the electric heaters, mostly from a safety standpoint. I may just unscrew the fuses that feed them.

 

[Ludlow]

Electric heaters work surprisingly well except when the bill arrives.

 

[JimRT]

Electric heaters work surprisingly well except when the bill arrives.

I guess I need to be open minded about them, perhaps used during the initial warm up on arrival at camp.