Need Advice on Value of Unsplit Wet Wood

[dieselguy624]

A neighbor has an 8-12 acre woodlot that is mature hardwoods & no one has taken standing dead or down wood for firewood in many years. I have offered to mow one of their properties that's adjacent to mine for the upcoming season, about 1/2 acre in exchange for permission to cut firewood on the woodlot which is not adjacent but very close to us.

They are business people and want me to put numbers to my mowing services & the wood I would receive. I got the mowing part but putting a value to the wet/green wood I would take is a little tough. Any advice is appreciated!

 

[Wood Duck]

I think the value of logs or standing dead trees in the woods is no more than 1/4 the value of cut, split, and delivered firewood. Maybe less. The value of firewood is mainly in the labor of converting logs in the woods (which are a dime a dozen) to firewood in the back yard. The wood itself has minimal value. Consider that loggers generally leave lots and lots of firewood in the woods when they harvest timber.I am currently working on removing a bunch of dead trees from a yard and have not paid anything. I am pretty sure the homeowner thinks I am doing here a favor by removing the wood (she likes to see usable wood used, not rotting).

I'd take the value of a cord of firewood delivered to your house and assume the value of a cord in log form in the woods is 10%.

 

[Plow Boy]

Lets say they let you cut all you can haul, split and stack during the period you are cutting their grass. I would be happy with that arrangement.

Think about it, how much are actually going to be able to move during that period. I would think it could workout just right. Cutting wood in the summer is rough though. Second thought nevermind that is a bad idea

 

[Applesister]

I would jack up the cost of my mowing to get more wood. Lol.
There are teenagers from the church who mow elderly peoples lawns for minimum wage. And there are landscaping contractors that landscape your property for major money. Are you a licenced landscape contractor? Do you have Workers Comp? Do you know how to safely cut trees? Do you have certification and safety training?
If you are cleaning a woodlot there should be no mention of money. If you are harvesting valuable timber, then yes.
Have you walked the 12 acres? Is it inaccessible? Is there valuable wood?
Is it all white pine and poplar?
A lot of people don't like cleaning up whats on the ground. They want live healthy straight trees for firewood. Are you willing to do sustainable harvest practices? Do you know what they are?
If you are just cleaning the forest floor you shouldn't have to mow anybodys lawn. They should pay you a labor wage and you keep the wood.
Personally if someone offered to mow my "lawns" in exchange for harvesting firewood from my woodlot I would tell them to take a hike.
Too much red tape. A can of worms. Plus my insurance company might cancel me unless you have a Certificate of Insurance.
If I were these business people I would skip it. Or put you on payroll.
If you clearly write down your intentions toward firewood harvesting like a subcontractor putting in a bid for work performed then they have legal ground if you belly up and dont perform.
You only do what you specify on paper and you both agree and sign. Maybe.
And if you have insurance. You know, in case you get crushed by a tree.
Sorry, I'm looking at this from a landowners perspective.

 

[Applesister]

I like what Plow boy said, if you approached your neighbor with this offer and they didnt come to you, then you are disadvantaged.
What if you just pay for the wood by cordage? And skip the mowing offer?
You pay them 50.00 cord or something.
I know you are doing all the work here but the 50.00 a cord is more of a goodwill dollar amount toward the landowner.?
IDK

 

[sportbikerider78]

If they think they could ever make one cent on dead standing wood they are nuts.
Plus, removing that stuff is great for the forest.

 

[dieselguy624]

Thanks for the replies folks. I think you are correct that I may be screwing myself by offering to mow for them. If I was to charge to mow that lot I'd probably want $50-60.00 per occurrence. It would need mowing 12-16 times per season depending on weather, that's about $600-1000.00 for maybe &100-175.00 worth of unsplit wet wood @$25/cord. If I even have time to get 5-7 cords out of there & processed. I think I will change my proposal to "I will help clean up your woodlot & improve it's health in exchange for whatever wood I can salvage.

 

[jatoxico]

It was your idea so I'm guessing they're happy to leave it alone. But it's worth realizing that normally you pay to have someone cut down and remove your trees. Run of the mill standing trees have zero value, the value comes from the cutting, splitting and hauling. They really should be happy to find someone who will provide them anything and you in turn will be happy to have a place to cut.

I would get it straight with them at the get go. Think how you will feel if they start complaining that you're not doing a good enough job cleaning up their woodlot that you are paying to work.

 

[Jags]

Charge them your $1000 for the mowing season and turn around and buy 5 cords cut/split/delivered to your door step. Their deadfall in the woods has little if any value as it is. The only way it has value is after the labor to turn it into firewood.

 

[dieselguy624]

They asked me to make sure we could both be happy with a deal. I just countered to have them let me cut wood to improve the health of the wood lot & if they want I'll mow for $35 each time. We'll see if they are really concerned about both of us being happy.

 

[sportbikerider78]

Do they burn wood? Maybe split the take 70/30 or some amount.

 

[Wood Duck]

A big factor in the value of the wood is the quality of the wood and the accessibility. If you can drive a tractor in the woods and haul logs on a trailer, then the wood is far more valuable than if the woods are steep, muddy, etc.If the woods are really difficult to access, the wood has almost no value. The type of trees also makes a difference, and the condition of the wood.

I'd say the value of a cord of decent wood (if you have to cut and haul it, but it is reasonably accessible) is about the value of mowing a lawn one time. Both are in the $30 to $50 range.

 

[Kenster]

If you can drop, and remove a cord of wood every time you mow, and you have valued your services at $35 per mow, that should be an even trade. If you don't want to mow, pay them the $35 for a cords worth of their standing deads. Keep in mind that, depending on tree size and how much limb wood is still good, it could take you two trees, or more, to process down to one cord of stacked splits.

 

[gzecc]

$50 per cord. Taking already down or dead trunks and branches.

 

[saskwoodburner]

I'm as big a scrounge as the next guy, but you have to consider that a lot of it may be gone to the dogs already. Nothing like making a cut or tapping a log to find only 6 feet of a 20 foot piece that's useable or not punky/dry rot. Where I cut, I can just throw them aside for nature.

You're still doing them a favor clearing out the useable wood.

 

[dieselguy624]

So I guess they knew my original proposal was a really bad deal for me & they led me down a path where I figured that out myself. So now I'm not mowing anything and we're going to walk the woodlot on Sunday. So far I'm impressed at how great these folks have been to deal with so far. And thanks to you guys for the advice & keeping me from doing something dumb.

 

[Firefighter938]

So I guess they knew my original proposal was a really bad deal for me & they led me down a path where I figured that out myself. So now I'm not mowing anything and we're going to walk the woodlot on Sunday. So far I'm impressed at how great these folks have been to deal with so far. And thanks to you guys for the advice & keeping me from doing something dumb.

That is really refreshing to read. I hope you both benefit from this.

 

[Poindexter]

Up here standing timber sells for ten dollars per cord. After you buy the wood, stumpage they call it, you have to go fell the trees and take them home.

What is the going rate for stumpage in PA? I got no idea.

 

[maple1]

Find someone in the area who has had a harvest done, and see what they were paid for stumpage. Or contact a forester & see what stumpage is going for. Or find it out otherwise however you can. That would be an absolute max.

But stumpage rates are for standing live trees - if you're really talking standing dead & windfalls, then there isn't really much value there as they are already in some state of decay. Or there might be if they haven't been in that state for long - but it's a crap shoot. Then again, I look for windfalls before anything else since they're already felled, which cuts down on my work a bit & the hazard aspect. Which all leads to interesting negotiating - so good luck.

 

[7acres]

If they think they could ever make one cent on dead standing wood they are nuts.
Plus, removing that stuff is great for the forest.

I hate dealing with people who want to "put numbers to" aka profit from an offer that's beneficial to both parties. Figure out how you will add value to their wood lot and sell it that way. You're doing them a service by removing the standing dead, blowdowns, leaners, and unhealthy, damaged trees from their woodlot. If you haul the problematic timber away it doesn't matter whether it ends up in your stacks or the local landfill. You're doing them a favor. If they don't want to let you have at it for free just charge them to mow and harvest firewood elsewhere.

 

[saskwoodburner]

Just another thought, you mentioned they are business minded people? Trying to find a dollar amount may have been them looking for a way to write off the expense or? what have you (I'm not that smart, just a thought).

 

[claydogg84]

There is no value in it, it is work they should be paying someone to do. They should be thanking you for offering to clean up their land, and paying you to mow their lawn.

 

[billb3]

So I guess they knew my original proposal was a really bad deal for me & they led me down a path where I figured that out myself. So now I'm not mowing anything and we're going to walk the woodlot on Sunday. So far I'm impressed at how great these folks have been to deal with so far. And thanks to you guys for the advice & keeping me from doing something dumb.

Sound like really nice honest upstanding business embracing conservative values people helping you realize the true value of time.