Need help picking a stove

[Joe dirt]

ok like the title says I'm looking to replace my Napoleon 1400. Just for the record this stove is junk and I'd steer anyone away from buying one. Perfect if your looking to make charcoal. But if heating a house it's a joke.
Stove is in the basement of a 2000 square foot house that is fairly insulated. The cold air intake for my furnace is above the stove and that stays on recirculate. I'm looking for a large stove. Something that will get a real overnight burn (unlike the Napoleon) and simple for the wife to operate as she's the one using it all week long. Stove will be used as the primary heat source. I've got good dry wood.

Stoves I've looked at are pacific energy summit, Vermont castings defiant, jøtul F 600 and the enerzone solution 3.4
I want to use my existing 6" chimney I have outside.
For the price, size and BTUs the enerzone 3.4 is looking really good. I'm not set on anything right now so this is why I'm asking other people's opinions.

 

[Grisu]

Welcome to the forum!

The Summit is a good stove and has many happy owners here. I would be careful with Vermont Castings; they had many recent owner changes, problems with customer support, their stoves can be prone to costly repairs. The Jotul F600 works better as a side-loader which could be tricky in your stove location. I would take a look at the front-loading F55 instead. It is a more recent model but people here seem to be very happy. Enerzone is part of SBI who also makes Osburn and Drolet stoves. Solid stoves, I don't remember reading about any particular problems with them. You could also take a look at the Drolet Myriad if you are on a budget or the Englander 30NC. Both are no-frills stoves but they will heat your home.

Your install looks pretty tight and you are considering a larger stove. Make sure to check clearance requirements for any of the options mentioned. Also, some stoves need a hearth with a high r-value (e. g. Englander 30NC needs 1.5); make sure you are ok there. Have you looked into your local code whether having the air return that close to the stove is permissible? Usually, it needs to be located at least 10 ft away from the stove.

How dry is your wood? Any modern stove (Napoleon and the ones you are considering) needs wood with an internal moisture content of less than 20%. That requires splitting and then stacking the wood in a sunny and windy spot for up to three years depending on the species and drying conditions. Excessive charcoal accumulation often means subpar wood is being burned or draft is insufficient. How tall is your chimney? Is it class A on the outside?

 

[Joe dirt]

Yes that install is tight but I do have room to go larger. I will need to add more pipe to bring it out from the wall. I'm only guessing at the chimney but it's got to be 15-20ft. I currently have a fresh air kit installed on the stove. My wood should be dry I hope. Cut, split and stacked. Two years dry but not three. The installer said if the chimney was any taller I would have too much draft and overfire the stove. He was also the one that picked the location close to the furnace intake. The install was clean and works but we are just dissatisfied with the stove. Maybe under powered for the size of house? We are almost running it wide open to get the heat we need. Therefore the burn times are short. If you look up the reviews for the Napoleon 1400 their not the best. I did add the blower and that helped heat output but still is not what we need.

 

[Oldman47]

That existing 2.25 cubic foot stove is undersized anywhere but maybe Florida for a house that big. You need to go much bigger, not just change brands, if you want a good working wood only heater. I would suggest you look at nothing smaller than 3 cubic feet and in Ontario that may well still be too small.

 

[begreen]

The Napoleon 1400 is a decent burner but it may be very undersized for the task at hand in a cold climate.
Is the basement fully insulated? How does the heat get upstairs from the basement?

 

[Grisu]

Yes that install is tight but I do have room to go larger. I will need to add more pipe to bring it out from the wall. I'm only guessing at the chimney but it's got to be 15-20ft. I currently have a fresh air kit installed on the stove. My wood should be dry I hope. Cut, split and stacked. Two years dry but not three. The installer said if the chimney was any taller I would have too much draft and overfire the stove. He was also the one that picked the location close to the furnace intake. The install was clean and works but we are just dissatisfied with the stove. Maybe under powered for the size of house? We are almost running it wide open to get the heat we need. Therefore the burn times are short. If you look up the reviews for the Napoleon 1400 their not the best. I did add the blower and that helped heat output but still is not what we need.

2 years of seasoning should be fine with most wood species. Some really dense hardwood (oak, hickory) may benefit from an additional year.

20 ft of stack is not close of being too much when the recommended minimum is 15 ft. Plus, it does not sound like you have a straight shot up. Nevertheless, if the chimney has been installed correctly your draft should be sufficient.

Check with your local codes if the stove can stay so close to the air intake. And be aware that it can suck CO from the stove into your HVAC system and spread it through the entire home. A bunch of CO detectors should be there.

Leaving the air all the way open will certainly shorten burn times and also send most of the heat up the chimney. Modern stoves are a bit counterintuitive as they get hotter while reducing the air. Once you have a good fire going, you should reduce the air in stages. The flames will move from the wood to the top of the firebox; it will appear as they are coming from the burn tubes in the top. That will make for a more efficient burn and the stove will get hotter. With good wood and draft the air should be almost closed if not completely. A stove thermometer will be helpful to determine whether the stove really gets hot enough.

 

[Joe dirt]

I have run it closed, half closed and all of the above. Problem with that is it only stays in the secondary burn for a given amount. Then it leaves big chunks of coal and the heat is just poor at this point.

Yes the basement is insulated but unsure as to how much because it's finished. The chimney is not straight up. There's two 45's then a T with it going around the eves so another two 45's. Yes there's carbon monoxide detectors on both floors and one at the heater location.

So with needing a large fire box what's my best choice? I can buy the everzone 3.4 for $2100. I've looked up reviews on it and there's not a boat load but it seems to be decent. I never did any research when I had the stove installed. I had the furnace, stove and chimney installed and it came down to price. This time I'm doing my research.

 

[Grisu]

I have run it closed, half closed and all of the above. Problem with that is it only stays in the secondary burn for a given amount. Then it leaves big chunks of coal and the heat is just poor at this point.

That's usually a sign of the wood still being too wet and/or insufficient draft. Given the many bends you have in your chimney 15 ft won't be enough and even 20 ft may be marginal. You may need to extend the chimney or you will have similar problems with the new stove. A simple test is to add another 3 ft section of cheap stove pipe on top and see if that improves the burn. If yes, replace it with a proper class A section. Have you also checked whether the OAK is free of obstruction?
I would also recommend to get a moisture meter and check the wood. Split a few pieces in half and press the pins in the center of the fresh surface. It should read below 20%.

 

[Joe dirt]

I'm only guessing on the height of the chimney. I'll be back at the end of the week and I can size it up. The outside air kit is not block and has never been blocked. I do have a moisture reader and check a few splits and report back the numbers. The only wood that I see being an issue would be the oak. But I never load the stove with one type of wood. Just mixed hardwoods.

any thoughts for the new stove?

 

[Woody Stover]

any thoughts for the new stove?

With the turns in your flue, I'd want an easy-breathing stove. I'd also want a convective stove (heats and moves air) as opposed to a radiant design such as the F600, to help you get heat upstairs. How wide is the opening to the upstairs, and is the stove located close to it?

 

[webby3650]

I'm very impressed with Enerzone products! I've installed a dozen or more of them. We usually build a fire in them for the customer when we get it all hooked up. They light easy, breath easy and pour the heat. 3/8" top, blower, lifetime warranty on the glass, tubes and baffle. Hard to go wrong in my opinion.

 

[dougstove]

Hi;
I replaced a Napoleon (1400?) with a PE Super 27 (little brother of the Summit) about 5 years ago.
My wood consumption dropped by ~35%, the house is warmer, I get good overnight burns and very little ash.
I had all the problems you describe with the Napoleon; the PE Super 27 is vastly superior in my experience.
My house is 1900 sq ft, climate similar to yours.
cheers, Doug

 

[Woody Stover]

I'm very impressed with Enerzone products! Hard to go wrong in my opinion.

Blower included.

 

[begreen]

Hi;
I replaced a Napoleon (1400?) with a PE Super 27 (little brother of the Summit) about 5 years ago.
My wood consumption dropped by ~35%, the house is warmer, I get good overnight burns and very little ash.
I had all the problems you describe with the Napoleon; the PE Super 27 is vastly superior in my experience.
My house is 1900 sq ft, climate similar to yours.
cheers, Doug

That might have been a draft issue. The Napoleon requires decent draft due to the long path to the secondaries. The PE's secondary tube is short, wide and straight up to the baffle box. I have a friend running a Summit on a 13 ft chimney with 2 - 90 deg turns. Although I was dubious of it achieving a good secondary burn, it does and I have seen many fires in it, including in mild weather.

 

[Joe dirt]

The opening to the stairs is a regular sized man door. Once it goes through that it's wide open until the ceiling on the main level. It's only a bungalow. But I don't have the air flow set up that way. My furnace sucks the warm air up and puts it upstairs. Cooler air then comes back down the stairs to the furnace area and mixes with the heated air.
Glad to see I'm not the only one that has these issues with the Napoleon stove as Dougstove had the same issues.

 

[webby3650]

I would also look at the Enerzone 2.9. It's a nice sized N/S loader, and has better looks than the 3.4 in my opinion. That'll probably be my next stove.

 

[begreen]

We've had a few Napoleon owners on here that went from hating their stove to loving it just by adding a few feet of chimney.

 

[jeff_t]

That might have been a draft issue. The Napoleon requires decent draft due to the long path to the secondaries. The PE's secondary tube is short, wide and straight up to the baffle box. I have a friend running a Summit on a 13 ft chimney with 2 - 90 deg turns. Although I was dubious of it achieving a good secondary burn, it does and I have seen many fires in it, including in mild weather.

I started a fire in my 27 last Friday, with 50° inside temp and low 60s outside. Thought I might have to warm the pipe up a little, but nope.

 

[Grisu]

I agree, the PE Super is an easy breathing stove. I have mine connected to a 13 ft liner and never any problems with draft. If anything maybe too much draft occasionally. Nevertheless, for a home your size the Summit would be more adequate.

As said before, I would also take a close look at the Jotul F55. Lots of good reviews here (use the forum search, also for the other candidates). If you can find an old stove to trade-in Jotul offers a $300 rebate: (broken link removed to http://jotul.com/us/campaign). With that the price should be close to the Enerzone. For really long burn times, you should consider a BlazeKing Princess or one of their 30 series stoves. They are catalytic stoves which can be turned down more for extended burn times and more even heat output. You will love that feature especially in the shoulder season.

 

[husky345 vermont resolute]

ok like the title says I'm looking to replace my Napoleon 1400. Just for the record this stove is junk and I'd steer anyone away from buying one. Perfect if your looking to make charcoal. But if heating a house it's a joke.
Stove is in the basement of a 2000 square foot house that is fairly insulated. The cold air intake for my furnace is above the stove and that stays on recirculate. I'm looking for a large stove. Something that will get a real overnight burn (unlike the Napoleon) and simple for the wife to operate as she's the one using it all week long. Stove will be used as the primary heat source. I've got good dry wood.

Stoves I've looked at are pacific energy summit, Vermont castings defiant, jøtul F 600 and the enerzone solution 3.4
I want to use my existing 6" chimney I have outside.
For the price, size and BTUs the enerzone 3.4 is looking really good. I'm not set on anything right now so this is why I'm asking other people's opinions.

 

[husky345 vermont resolute]

I bought a drolet classic last year and love it. Throws out some nice heat and nice slow steady burn. Not only that the price was right. I sold my Vermont resolute and am so much happier now I don't have to keep throwing parts at it . I did my research and am happy with my decision.

 

[Joe dirt]

I bought a drolet classic last year and love it. Throws out some nice heat and nice slow steady burn. Not only that the price was right. I sold my Vermont resolute and am so much happier now I don't have to keep throwing parts at it . I did my research and am happy with my decision.

After plenty of reading on this website I had started to narrow down the list. I went to three stove shops in my area and finally came to what I felt was the best choice for my needs. I went with the King Ultra by Blaze King. I also got it with the fan kit. I pick it up this Friday. Excited to finally see it in person. The shop that I got it from only had the princess on display.

 

[JA600L]

After plenty of reading on this website I had started to narrow down the list. I went to three stove shops in my area and finally came to what I felt was the best choice for my needs. I went with the King Ultra by Blaze King. I also got it with the fan kit. I pick it up this Friday. Excited to finally see it in person. The shop that I got it from only had the princess on display.

Doesn't that take an 8" flue? I thought you want to use your 6" flue?

 

[Joe dirt]

Doesn't that take an 8" flue? I thought you want to use your 6" flue?

I did want to use the 6" flue but with all the positive posts I read I decided to go with the stove and change out the flue. I've been trying to get a used one but 8" is not a very popular size. I found one in a buy and sell and spoke to the lady that had it installed for only a year. She assured me this was a 8" flue. The chimney was at another location far from where she lived. (She rents the building out). After my 2 hour drive there I see that it's only 6". It was a complete 24' chimney with all brackets and double wall and thimble. She was only asking $190 for the whole thing. Too bad because it looked brand new. Another 2 hour drive back home with no chimney. I'm still searching for a used one. If it comes down to it I'll be buying a new flue.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

Stoves I've looked at are pacific energy summit, Vermont castings defiant, jøtul F 600 and the enerzone solution 3.4

I've got a PE so I think you should also get a PE.