Need insurance assurance

[dicon77]

Good morning. I finally purchased a wood stove. I have install date set for about 2 weeks from now. I called my insurance company to let them know. One of the questions they asked was, "Does the stove have a double-wall construction?"

The answer is no. It's a Quadra-Fire, cast iron, UL listed and all that, UL approved chimney, being professionally installed.

Insurance said it had to go to underwriters because that answer was "no." Owner at stove company said insurance company would be really limiting me to what I could buy because no cast iron stoves are double wall and that I would basically have to buy steel . . .

Well, last night I came home to messsage on my machine that they won't insure me for stove because that answer was 'NO' to being a double-wall stove. I'm shocked.

I'm thinking there must be some mistake. I live in northeast PA where probably every other person has a stove in their house. My company is Liberty Mutual. I guess I'm really just looking for some reassurance here, especially considering it's the weekend and I have to wait for Monday to straighten this out. I have no problem changing my company but would rather not; I just want this stove installed, don't want to have to push it off. Do you think the kid that was asking me the questions mis-read it and meant the chimney pipe being double-wall? Sheesh.

Curious to see answers, thanks
Jodi

 

[retiredff]

I have ERIE insurance and my agent did not care if I installed a stove as long as a pro installed it. I can't understand why insurance companies will insure a home with a box in the basement that has electricity running to it AND an explosive gas, but won't insure a wood stove that has neither! Seems like a rip off to me. I would dump your current company and move all of your insurance needs to someone else.

MY $.02

 

[Brian VT]

Send them a copy of the stove's manual with all the UL stuff ?

 

[humpin iron]

In reality all Quad cast stoves are double walled. Quad is a steel body with cast panels on the outside, that is one reason they have great clearances. Go back to the stove shop and lift the cast top off the stove your buying and you will see the construction. What the insurance companies should be worried about is the UL listing. You need to politely press that point to them, if they don't respond get another company
And yes your dealing with a lack of knowledge on the other end of the phone

 

[syd3006]

My experience may not be relevant as I live in Canada but here it is. The insurance broker I deal with has multiple companies to choose from and compare with, when I decided to put in a wood stove I asked them to find me the best deal available. They required that my installation be inspected by their people to make sure that it was compliant with clearances, regulations, etc. I had to drop the company I had been dealing with when I was burning oil, I have become accustomed to switching providers to get the best deal. The company I went with tacked on a $35.00 surcharge because the wood-stove was a secondary heat source, if it had been my primary heat source it would have increased my insurance by 75%! The 75% would have been unacceptable and I would have went elsewhere but $35.00 I thought was very reasonable. I took out my oil furnace this summer and replaced it with a "ground source heat pump" but after my experience burning wood last winter I decided to leave the stove in. I will be checking insurance prices again come renewal time.

 

[oconnor]

My guess is the question was supposed to be " does the stove PIPE have double wall construction", but just a guess.

 

[ansehnlich1]

My guess is the question was supposed to be " does the stove PIPE have double wall construction", but just a guess.

This was my first thought, the insurance folk wanted to know if the stove pipe was double wall.

 

[DavidV]

State Farm made me fil out a sheet with a diagram of the clearences and asked about chimney liner etc. never asked about double wall anything.

 

[BrotherBart]

That agent needs to show you a copy of the checklist he was reading from.

 

[jdemaris]

My company is Liberty Mutual. I guess I'm really just looking for some reassurance here, especially considering it's the weekend and I have to wait for Monday to straighten this out. I have no problem changing my company but would rather not

Every company makes it's own rules, so you have to shop around. My place has eight separate chimneys.

I live in a farmhouse built circa 1820. It has four original chimneys that all start from the upstairs, i.e. 2nd level. Wall trusses hold them up with little chimney closets under them. Wood and/or coal burners are downstairs, 1st level with metal stove pipe passing through the downstair's ceiling for each one. In addition, I have a furnace room attached to the house with its own stainless-steel chimney. And, I added a new large kitchen in a two-story addtion that has . . . a Rumford wood cooking fireplace, a wood-fired bake oven, and a wood cook stove. Also two antique match-lit propane cook stoves and one oil stove. On top of that, my barn has it's own wood furnace and stainless steel chimney. So, this ought to be an insurance nightmare, right? No. My insurance here in rural New York has been cancelled twice during the past 5 years. The first time because I have over 50 antique farm tractors parked in my fields (not visible from the house). After refusing to remove them and getting a new company, I got cancelled again - for having a herd of goats. Company said they had new rules and will not insure properties with any farm animals. So, now - I've got Farm & Family Insurance.
All of these companies came in and inspected all eight of my chimneys and it was not a problem. They may have charged me extra, that I don't know.

I also just recently bought a house on foreclosure in northern Michigan. It has three chimneys, two wood stoves, and one wood furnace attached to an oil burner. I got insurance, no problem. The bigger issue was the fact that I'm not living in the house and it's empty most of the time.

 

[Brian VT]

My insurance will go up a little bit but they said it's because of the added value to the home.

 

[fishinpa]

We too just installed a quad stove in our basement.(4300) I asked the wife if she informed our "homeowners" people that we've done this.

She said she did and they said "that's fine, your covered"... I was surprised! I expected it to go up 100.00 a year or something like that.... but they said it won't, and they asked absolutely no question about the installation, chimney, model/make of the stove... nothing.

FYI: We're using Allstate.

 

[mrurbplanner]

My insurer did not have an issue with it, but the fact that it was installed by the stove vendor may have had something to do with it. The premium did not go up either.

 

[dicon77]

I'm the Original Poster. I called insurance co. this morning. Girl read that question to me again, as I told her my thoughts of a misunderstanding. She said no misunderstanding, that it is a double-walled stove they are asking about. A friend of mine stopped by today, and he thinks maybe they are thinking a potbelly stove or something. Wow. I guess it's possible. So, we have to wait until Monday and will diiscuss with underwriters. She has a message in to them. I told her that I want to make it clear that I'm not shopping for another stove . . . She knows what I meant.

The stove is being installed by vendor, but they didn't ask that.

Will let you know.

 

[BrotherBart]

It will be interesting to see what happens. PA has been knee deep in wood and coal stoves for a few hundred years.

 

[Dill]

Most companies will have a surcharge for a stove. Most are in the 20-50 a year range,but some companies just say no.
You have to understand that Homeowners insurance is one of the safest (least amount of claims) products out there. So companies have invested a lot of time into eliminating even more risk. Certain Pets, trampolines, specific numbers of farm animals etc. Anything that is "different", is either not allowed or surcharged. Add to that high fuel prices and lots of people rushing out to get stoves that have zero knowledge and experience and the companies are worried this winter. I've had to attended 2 difference "winter heating hazard meetings". One where I was the only agent who had wood stove experience. So the agents who aren't comfortable with the risk to begin with are really getting worried.
Your best bet is local independent agent who works with different companies. And to go with smaller regional carriers. I write with a company that only covers VT and NH, I'm willing to bet that 70% of the properties that company covers have a solid fuel heating device, for them its a 20 dollar surcharge and I only have to sign off on it. Whereas some companies make me complete a 2 page worksheet and include a pic of the UL tag.
So long long story short....It depends, but the money you save in fuel will make up for it.

 

[dicon77]

Just an update -- still waiting -- well, actually I am no longer waiting -- I just requested a quote from another insurance company. It will take an hour or so because new company is getting both my cars to insure, too, so she has to work that up also. That's Nationwide. I had business insurance through them and they were good. Other dealings I have heard from others were positive experiences, so I think they should be okay.

So, Monday night came and went and no call from original company. I had requested that they give underwriters the model number, website address for manual and specs, which they did. Still nothing. After being insured with this company for 13 years, this being first time I ever called them for help, I'm extremely disappointed at how they treated me on the phone. She was like a robot, for one thing. For another thing, she was somewhat "incredulous" to hear that I want them to reconsider, which was their idea to begin with pretty much. Hmm. You know, whatever.

Still, if they happen to call back, will post it here for anyone curious.

To Dill, I can appreciate what you are saying about "weekend burners," but I was born and raised with a fireplace in my house. We burned all the time, later burned coal as primary source of heat. I am no stranger to this. I would think if that were an issue with them, they would have asked, although one can certainly lie; I understand that. They solely based this on the fact that it is not a double-walled stove, not who is installing it, where it's going, no request to inspect . . . If I went and bought a different stove, they'd be fine with that.

 

[Dill]

I know what your saying. But evidently your insurance company doesn't.
I think you took the right path. Nationwide is now owned by Farmer's Insurance, which is big out west but just coming into the northeast and the eastcoast as a whole. I don't do much with them, but mainly due to the fact I detest their software.
And its possible that you shook up your old agent enough that they will help. But more likely that they'll just say too bad, and deal with the easy stuff they understand.

 

[Famer]

After reading this thread, I called my insurance company (NJ Manufacturer's) last night and asked about my newly installed insert and if I was covered. Without hesitation, the nice customer service lady said "No problem. You're covered." After getting that good news, I figured I'd ask about the free-standing stove we had installed in our sun room a couple years ago. Same answer. Phew. All I need to do now is pass township inspection. Hopefully that will be as easy as my dealings with the insurance company.

 

[KeithO]

If your stove is UL listed (The attachment is from one of the Quadra fire manuals) then the most the insurer needs to know is the listing company and the report number. If that is not enough, then you need a new insurer, which I think you have figured out.

 

[Dill]

Getting that from the manual is great idea. I never thought of that. The company that requires UL info wants a picture of the tag. Let me tell you its impossible and always comes out blurry and usually unreadable.

 

[moosetrek]

FYI - we're looking at buying a 1917 farmhouse about 20 miles from anything, including the fire dept, that has plaster walls; a barn, a couple outbuildings, and an outhouse (yes there's a bathroom too). I told the insurance we'd be using wood heat but there's a furnace (from 1960-something?). The quote was reasonable, but I asked how bad it would be if the woodstove was our only heat source - she said no different. She said a woodstove is the same as a furnance, a furnace has gas and flame in a box and is just as dangerous. They also assume the owner installs it correctly, as long as it's to code they don't care and no they don't inspect - pretty cool I thought!

 

[dicon77]

FINAL FROM UNDERWRITERS -- Welll, they said No. Like Brooke from American Idol used to say as she was being voted out, "It's okay, it's okay."

Nationwide is writing up a policy for me. We settled it yesterday, and she should be faxing me copy to sign today. The quote she gave me was actually $50 less with better coverage on cars (300k instead of 100K on whatever).

Actually when girl from original company was reading me the final note from underwriters, she said something about underwriters says they might/they recommend LM cancel my policy. funny. Well, I told her, stove isn't even installed in house yet so they don't have to go panicking; I'd be cancelling long before they get around to it. She seemed sorry and laughed when I told her that one person at her company told me to shop for another stove.

I would like to thank you all for support I received on this topic. It has been a pleasure.

I wonder if I should use my old policy as firestarter.

Jodi

 

[fugazi42]

Just another data point- I just switched my home owner's insurance to Liberty Mutual last week. The insurance rep I worked with asked me for many details regarding my free-standing stove and my insert. They asked about installation, inspection, UL certification,etc. They did not ask for specs on the stove pipe, nor what type of stove we actually have.

Josh

 

[dicon77]

Yeah, people are indeed saying this is a very strange thing. You know, friends here that I talk to. I've been with them 13 years, no claims, no car accidents, signed the tort thingy saying I won't sue over fender-benders, pay in full once a year never late. Go figure. Well, I guess it's better my insurance company than my husband (joke, I think my husband still likes me).