Need some help choosing chimney for Englander 30

[slickschoppers]

I ordered my Englander 30 from Home Depot about an hour ago.

I need some assistance, making sure I get right chimney piping.

I am planning on ordering everything from Mendards.com for the chimney.

I spoke with Selkirk customer service today and explained that I am running all brand new chimney, new installation.

it is going to be going straight up, no bends,

from the Englander 30 it will go straight up (ceiling height about 9FT) to a drywall ceiling with blown cellulous insulation.

at the ceiling it will change to double wall chimney, and then go through my steel roof.

the roof does not have any sub board, like plywood, ect under it. it is a plain steel roof attached to 2x4 runners.

they recommended a ceiling support kit for the inside drywall ceiling
and they recommended a Rubber Boot flashing kit, for the steel roof.

I am ordering 3 class A double wall sections of supervent, which should take me to the correct height outside, if it doesn't I will add another on.


my question is concerning the single wall black pipe inside.

1. so I need an adapter of any sort at the stove itself?
2 I am planning on using a simple snap together single wall black stove pipe. (is that ok?)
3. I am planning on ordering a 18" slip connector to put in the single wall black pipe. ( this is ok?)


the for the single wall pipe, I am running up to the ceiling mount kit. it will ahve an insulation guard.

can I run black pipe right up to the adapter on the ceiling support kit, or do I need a section of double wall that extends into the living space?

 

[Gibraltar IV]

I used Selkirk double wall Supervent Class A from Menards for my NC30. Connected with Selkirk DSP double wall- single sliding section- also from menards. Mates perfectly to the stove collar and ceiling support with no adapters.

 

[slickschoppers]

is it ok to go single wall all the way up to the drywall ceiling kit?

 

[begreen]

Minimum size floor protector for the 30NC is 39”W x 52.5”D.

You'll need the attic insulation shield for the ceiling support box to keep the cellulose completely away from the chimney pipe. There is one in the kit. Is the one supplied in the kit tall enough to terminate well above the existing insulation depth?

Personally I don't think a rubber boot is appropriate for chimney pipe. Some folks use a silicone boot which is better, but my preference would be to use a metal flashing that is designed for metal roofs. Excel makes these.

 

[jwfirebird]

you should have a clean out t, so the crap has a place to collect other than into the top of your stove. plus it easier to clean

 

[slickschoppers]

begreen, I am getting the pad to put ON TOP of the hearth pad I'm building.
yes the supplied insulation shield will extend much higher than the insulation that was blown in.

the rubber boot in this kit is designed for chimney pipe by the same manufacturer that makes the chimney pipe. it's rated for 1000 degree operating temp,,, my guess is it is actually silicone. but it is rated well above what the double wall chimney pipe should reach.
it was recommended by my neighbor who owns and operates a roofing company, and also heats both of his 4000 square foot shops with wood.

jw firebird.......how I go about putting a "clean out" in the chimney design? I was planning on using the slip pipe to be able to remove a section of pipe directly above the Englander for cleanout.

 

[jwfirebird]

you have to offset the stove so the tee is at the bottom then you use a 90 or two 45s to get to the stove. there is always ash and rain, you can never keep that stuff out with a cap, if you just go strait in it just goes into the stove

 

[jwfirebird]

https://www.homedepot.com/p/DuraVen...-Pipe-Tee-with-Clean-Out-Cap-6DBK-T/205544574

 

[slickschoppers]

gotcha....

 

[Squisher]

There is no good reason to incorporate two 90's into a system for the sake of a cleanout. Straight up is the best chimney setup for performance and for cleaning. The bit of creosote that comes down the pipe and collects on top of the baffle is easily cleaned out by lifting up the slip section or dropping the baffle from the inside during regular cleaning. Moisture coming down the pipe with a proper cap on is not a concern.

 

[Squisher]

Straight up with no offsets is your cleanest install. The pipe will stay much cleaner. Everywhere there's an elbow/offset will have way more buildup then the rest of the pipe. It's such a disturbance to the flow of exhaust gases that having elbows also reduces your effective draft. As in a 18' chimney straight up is going to draft much better than an 18' chimney with two 90's.

90's or two 45's are fine to use when they are needed. But I wouldn't design from the ground up to incorporate them if at all possible to not have them.

 

[jwfirebird]

normally get a few inches of black jelly crud out of mine, I used two 45s for flow, certainly wouldn't want that inside it

 

[Squisher]

I've never seen black jelly crud at the base/baffle of a straight up chimney install that was from water running down after getting by a cap.

The worst cases I've seen of baffle build up all come from corrugated liners flaking off during the off season and even still it's always been a pile of dry creosote.

Are you certain you're not seeing/getting liquid creosote in your pipe?

I just cleaned a straight up set up this morning. Typically found on top of the baffle is nice light fly ash if proper wood is being burned correctly. No signifigant amount of rain should ever be able to get by a cap rundown the pipe and create a jelly of soot on your baffle. It just doesn't happen.

 

[begreen]

begreen, I am getting the pad to put ON TOP of the hearth pad I'm building.
yes the supplied insulation shield will extend much higher than the insulation that was blown in.

the rubber boot in this kit is designed for chimney pipe by the same manufacturer that makes the chimney pipe. it's rated for 1000 degree operating temp,,, my guess is it is actually silicone. but it is rated well above what the double wall chimney pipe should reach.
it was recommended by my neighbor who owns and operates a roofing company, and also heats both of his 4000 square foot shops with wood.

jw firebird.......how I go about putting a "clean out" in the chimney design? I was planning on using the slip pipe to be able to remove a section of pipe directly above the Englander for cleanout.

It's your call. Here is my thinking on this. You have a 50+ yr roof on the house. That is great, wish I had the same. If I did, I would want a 50+ yr flashing system for every roof penetration. The concern is that over time with UV exposure and repeated heatings that the boot will stiffen and become brittle. I also don't like the large number of screw holes required. For some flashings these are too close to the pipe opening for my comfort. Not sure if this is an issue with the Selkirk boot. And last. I prefer a boot with more rigidity to stand up to the wind and snow load. Will there be a roof brace on this chimney to reduce wobble? One is required for every 5 ft of chimney above the roof.

FWIW, some inspectors don't find rubber boot flashings to stand up long term.
http://www.buellinspections.com/rubber-boot-type-pipe-flashings/

 

[Squisher]

Many sweeps/installers that I converse with refuse to use the rubber boots. I would agree with Begreen that they are not a durable long lasting option.

 

[slickschoppers]

OK,, I talked with Selkirk, the company that makes Supervent for Lowes, and Menards.

The technician recommended running straight up, no elbows, no 90's if possible, He said the system is most efficient if you can run straight up.

he also said that the ceiling brace kit with insulation protector is rated to run single wall from teh wood stove directly to the ceiling kit. So I should be good with Single wall below, and double wall from the ceiling to the rain cap.

 

[Squisher]

Single wall connecting pipe below and double wall chimney pipe above.

And I'd agree with the fellow you talked to. I missed your question on the connecting pipe. But yes single wall connecting pipe is fine to run to a certified ceiling support box as long as you have 18"s clearance from any sidewalls or any protrusions down from the ceiling like a exposed beam or something.

 

[Highbeam]

I have almost the same installation in my shop. Cheap single wall snap lock shoved right into the NC30 collar, up 10 feet to a ceiling support box, then class A for 9 feet to a cap. No screen in the cap and since my roof is comp, the flashing is a metal one.

I put the adjustable slip chunk of single wall at the ceiling support box because it was the last piece to go in. You start at the stove and stack it up!

It is totally ridiculous to install a cleanout tee. You WANT all the junk from the chimney to fall into the stove. That's where it can be burned up or easily cleaned out. I live in wet Washington and water down the flue is not a problem at all. You're more likely to have leaks from your roof penetration.

For my once a year cleanings I simply pop the baffle out of the stove, sweep the chimney from below so all the debris falls into the stove, and then put the baffle back in. The debris just falls into the ash bed.

I may upgrade my interior pipe to double wall for a few reasons. It lasts longer, drafts better, seals better, and is safer. 10 feet is the max allowed for a single wall run and I'm right there. I'll just wait until it rots out.

 

[slickschoppers]

Squisher, I have quite a bit more than 18" of clearence to anything from the side., my clearances are all measured in feet.

the rear of the wood stove will be approximatley 5 to 6 feet from the wall or any other object in the room.

the chimney will be about 5 feet on each side away from the lowered ceiling trusses.

so the closest thing to any part of the fireplace in a complete circle will be 5 feet.

 

[kennyp2339]

Sounds like your on the right track, check and see what the cost difference and availability is between the snap together single wall pipe and 26g single wall welded pipe, I like the welded pipe because its heavier gauge and will last a ton longer, but the snap together isn't expensive and can easily be replaced.

 

[slickschoppers]

I haven't found anyone around here that stocks the welded single wall. I don't have a problem waiting for it to ship, but Lowes carrys the snap together on hand,, and if I ever had problems with a piece I could just run get a replacement.

I'm trying to use all chimney parts that I can actually source locally for that reason.

 

[jwfirebird]

we get a lot of snow and wind, its not like rain, when it snows a lot of times it hits the house and goes up. gets deflected down into chimney by the cap, which by the way is one of the expensive ones and has never fallen off. cant do anything you have a hole and blowing snow is going to find it and sit in there till its cleaned next time

 

[armanidog]

I haven't found anyone around here that stocks the welded single wall. I don't have a problem waiting for it to ship, but Lowes carrys the snap together on hand,, and if I ever had problems with a piece I could just run get a replacement.

I'm trying to use all chimney parts that I can actually source locally for that reason.

You can order the welded seam pipe at Home Depot if they do not stock it locally. Also, order some extra pieces if you want fast access to some replacement parts.


(broken link removed)

I would go with metal flashing since, if installed correctly, you never have to worry about it until the roof is replaced.

 

[slickschoppers]

Armanidog, I like that Idea, I'm going to pick up the snap pipe so I can get it up and running before the end of the month, I would really like to have the woodburner working by christmas, Lowes has the snap style on hand,,,

I'll order the welded black pipe from Home depot, and switch it over when it comes in.

 

[Squisher]

we get a lot of snow and wind, its not like rain, when it snows a lot of times it hits the house and goes up. gets deflected down into chimney by the cap, which by the way is one of the expensive ones and has never fallen off. cant do anything you have a hole and blowing snow is going to find it and sit in there till its cleaned next time

I've never seen or heard of this happening. We get lots of snow each winter. I live in quite a high wind area. Snow doesn't blow up into my cap. Or any of my customers. Certainly not any amount that would cause a wet slurry of the creosote when cleaned. If wind/snow was deflecting off your house and blowing down your chimney, you would have backdrafting issues.

Snow blowing into a chimney is not a reason to incorporate two 90's into a system vs straight up.

Take a picture of your setup maybe. What type of cap? Expensive one, doesn't narrow it down to much.

Lastly. Do you not use the stove and melt this snow out? Or does it plug your chimney for you?