Need to get an insert...any help appreciated

[onion]

New member here!

Ok so I bought a house a month ago and I need an insert to provide heat with my propane furnace supplementing. The old insert is..well, old and the box is cracked, firebrick busted and missing in places...bad news. The fireplace is 36 wide, 28 high and 21 deep (another 18 on the hearth to use).

I have lots of questions:

1. I really dont have the money right now to line the flue. I understand that it will help with drafting and creosote buildup but I know several folks without a lined flue who have no problems and the sweep tells them they really dont need a yearly cleaning. Can I rely on this anecdotal evidence or are they the exception?

2. If I have an unlined flue do I have to stick with a cat or will a non-cat burn clean enough to keep the chimney from catching fire?

3. Any opinions on Appalachian stoves? Specifically 36BW

4. I am also way behind the 8-ball on wood. I will have to rely on buying locally for this season...if anyone knows a good source in Cincinnati I would appreciate it.

5. How much wood can I expect to burn? The house is about 1800 sq. ft. but its just me so I can close off many of the rooms and live in about 1000 sq ft of it.

6. The guy at the store told me it is important to buy the biggest insert that can fit in the fireplace. True or false?

7. If a blower is controlled by a thermostat...the thermostat is measuring temp in the insert or in the room?

8. I'm assuming I can get the flue lined next year after the insert is installed. True or false?

Thanks in advance

 

[fredarm]

Ok, I'll bite. A picture of your fireplace and a diagram of the layout of your house would be helpful, but here goes.

1. As long as you have a tile-lined flue (and are in the US) with many inserts you can do a "direct connect" installation, which is a short piece of pipe up into the flue with a block-off plate at the damper. Check your local jurisdiction's code requirements though. If you're in Canada, you have to use a stainless steel flue liner. Have the stove dealer or a sweep inspect your flue to make sure it's in good condition before doing a direct connect.

2. A non-cat will burn clean enough as long as you have dry wood and burn it properly. The EPA non-cat inserts will burn very clean. There aren't too many cat inserts (the Blaze King Princess is one), but dry wood is just as important with them.

3. I don't know anything about Appalachian stoves, sorry.

4. Can't help you there either. Know that the "seasoned" wood sold by many firewood suppliers is not dry enough to burn right away. You can also supplement with manufactured wood products such as BioBricks or Bear Bricks.

5. Depends on if you're burning 24/7 or just evenings and weekends, and how cold it is where you are. I burn evenings and weekends and went through just over a cord for my 1900 sq. ft. house in eastern Massachusetts. If you're burning 24/7, I would think 2 or 3 cords, at least.

6. Up to a point. It depends on your layout. If the fireplace is in a smaller room a big insert can cook you out of the room. Generally, the advice is that you can build a smaller fire in a big stove, but not a bigger fire in a small stove. I was limited to the little Pacific Energy Vista by the size of my fireplace and it's proved to be enough of stove for my needs, although it would be nice to be able to get more wood in for longer burns. If you're burning 24/7 it's nice not to have to reload so often. A medium size insert (around a 2 cu. ft. firebox) might be enough for your needs.

7. The thermostat measure the temp of the insert and shuts the blower off when it cools down.

8. True. You can do the liner next year. With the direct connect you have to remove the insert to clean the flue anyway, so that would be a good time to install a liner.

 

[Burn-1]

I would definitely line the chimney. It made a big difference for us. For that size and a somewhat cheaper but decent quality insert you might look at the Enerzone Solution 2.0.

As far as firewood goes, I think Ohio has been one of the states hardest hit by the Emerald Ash Borer. If you call around to some tree services or check with state forests and lands about getting deadfalls you might be able to get some wood which burns decently even if it's not completely dry. Good luck.

 

[afblue]

In the long run you are going to save $ just doing the liner at the same time, based on labor and buy 2 chimney connections. You know about the 30% tax credit for an EPA stove right? It also applies to all parts associated with the install. Where if you are to buy it next year you are going to pay full price and not get 30% off it. Less than optimal wood first year will tend to have more creosote so it will be easier to clean.

 

[53flyer]

Like fredarm said, you have to remove the stove just to clean it (pain) with a direct connect which is why I'm looking into a top-to-bottom liner.

5. I actually have burned about 6 cords (per yr) the last few yrs. That was 4-5 months of 24/7 and a month or so of morning & evening burns with big 24" chunks that were fed into a Quad in the basement. The trouble is that we've been able to get the heat from their to the upstairs which is why I'm looking at inserts... Like they always say, “it depends on home construction, etc.” but you could do a fairly basic calculation using 128 cuft (a cord of wood) and estimate how much wood you'd use based off the firebox size. I.e. for 24/7 burning, if you had a 2cuft firebox filled with 1.5cuft 3 times/day (or 1.1cuft 4 times/day) and you'd be using about 4.5cuft/day. Multiply that out by 30 and you get 135cuft (approx 1 cord) per month. Multiply that by how many months you'll burn 24/7 and add around 1/3 to 1/2 a cord for ea month of partial burning and it seems like you should have a decent estimate.

5. Depends on if you're burning 24/7 or just evenings and weekends, and how cold it is where you are. I burn evenings and weekends and went through just over a cord for my 1900 sq. ft. house in eastern Massachusetts...I was limited to the little Pacific Energy Vista by the size of my fireplace and it's proved to be enough of stove for my needs, although it would be nice to be able to get more wood in for longer burns. If you're burning 24/7 it's nice not to have to reload so often. A medium size insert (around a 2 cu. ft. firebox) might be enough for your needs.

fred- What type of burn times do you get during typical Jan/Feb weather with your stove? That's a 1.5cuft firebox right? It's hard to imagine you using so little wood. I would have guessed you'd use 1/3 cord per month (I calculated using 1cuft weekdays & 3cuft/day on weekends). Do you only burn for 4 months/yr?

 

[fredarm]

fred- What type of burn times do you get during typical Jan/Feb weather with your stove? That's a 1.5cuft firebox right? It's hard to imagine you using so little wood. I would have guessed you'd use 1/3 cord per month (I used 1cuft weekdays & 3cuft/day on weekends). Do you only burn for 4 months/yr?

PE doesn't give a firebox size for the Vista, but Chimneysweep.com says it's 1.4 cu ft. I burn occasionally in October, more in Nov., pretty continuously Dec. to March and then occasionally in April. The Vista is an efficient stove. I reload every 3 to 4 hours when I'm burning, but it will go 6 hours and still have coals left, and if I'm really lucky I'll have some coals left in the morning. I supplemented with some BioBricks, but only a few packages. I don't keep that close track of it, but it could have been as much as a cord and a half including the bricks as a wood equivalent, but no more than that. I have a metal rack that holds a face cord, so I'm looking at that and comparing the size of the other stacks. I used a little over 3 rack-loads, plus some miscellaneous junk wood and the bricks.

 

[onion]

Thanks for the help guys. I went to another dealer after looking around here and I think I've decided on the PE Super or Summit (not sure which yet). The dealer (a different one) quoted me an installed price (stove and liner) $1500 below the other place for what appears to be a higher quality stove...and they can get it in sooner.

Now I just need to start working on my wood stash. Probably gonna have to bite the bullet and burn more propane than Id like to this year without a good wood supply but Ill make sure I am set next year. Already got several scrounges lined up......just need to find the time to cut wood, kill deer and finish unpacking

 

[fredarm]

You'll love the PE insert (either one)! They are easy to use, very efficient and throw lots of heat. You'll be glad you did the liner--it makes the insert perform much better as noted in the posts above.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

Thanks for the help guys. I went to another dealer after looking around here and I think I've decided on the PE Super or Summit (not sure which yet). The dealer (a different one) quoted me an installed price (stove and liner) $1500 below the other place for what appears to be a higher quality stove...and they can get it in sooner.

Now I just need to start working on my wood stash. Probably gonna have to bite the bullet and burn more propane than Id like to this year without a good wood supply but Ill make sure I am set next year. Already got several scrounges lined up......just need to find the time to cut wood, kill deer and finish unpacking

Ya dun good