New Ashford 30

[coffeebean]

Hello,

I've been reading this forum for a while, its filled with lots of useful information, thank you! First post here. First wood stove: just purchased a gently used 2yr old BK Ashford 30. We're located in the snowbelt region, north of Toronto. I'm planning to install the stove on the main floor of a 2 story building, on tile. Each floor is about 1000 sq ft, and are independent apartments with no connecting airflow. The main floor has an HRV with recirculate mode, which should assist in distributing heat. The plan is to use ICC double wall stove pipe & chimney running straight up, through the upstairs, attic and out the roof. We'll have about 20' of vertical stove pipe & chimney.

I have a few questions, it would be appreciated if anyone might have insight into these:

The previous owner of the stove said that the stove could be run with the bypass damper open, if one wanted a fire for visual purposes (i.e. nice flames). I've read on this site that than can cause issues if run like that for long times, but the manual indicates the stove should be run with the bypass open for a while during start up.

1) what damage do i need to look for, due to the previous burning with the damper open
2) the better half wants to have a nice fire to look at on occasion, under what conditions, time, temperature, etc. can the stove be run with the damper open, for visual reasons?

The tile on the floor is mortared to a thermal insulator (which is mortared to the slab) that doesn't provide the same support as tile on concrete. I'm a bit concerned with the point loads from the stove feet on the tile with this underlayment. Is there any suggestions of something I could use to spread the weight load from the feet over a bigger area? I guess steel plate might work.

Last question, I think, the model of the stove seems to be an Ashford 30, not the 30.1, however the Blaze King website only lists manuals for the Ashford 30 model. Is there any significant difference between the two models?

Thank you
Chris

 

[Ashful]

Do NOT run that stove with bypass open, beyond the time when the probe registers in the Active region. Doing so will likely cause the bypass damper or frame to warp.

However, nothing is lost, here. You will still get great flame show with the t-stat set to 2 or 3. The flames aren't squashed until you get down to the lowest burn settings.

 

[jeff_t]

I've never looked at an Ashford, but it's probably like mine with regard to the bypass. Look thru the flue collar with the bypass open and make sure the bypass gasket is intact, and the frame it sits in ('bypass gasket retainer') isn't warped or otherwise damaged. Should also check the door and window gaskets, just because.

If you want a nice fire to look at, pull the coals up by the door, and load a few splits E/W with some gaps between them. Give it enough air and it almost looks like a real fire. It also helps to dig a little ditch thru the coals so air can get under the splits.

The stove feet should be fine on the tile

 

[begreen]

Just wondering, what was the thermal insulator, micore? Micore and mortar or thinset are not going to bond well.

 

[coffeebean]

It's a foam based backer board for tile. I confirmed using it as a floor insulator with their technical staff, as its normally used for walls. Although, they seem to have updated their documentation for floor use now. However, it is a high density insulating foam, so its compressive strength rating is probably only 30 psi or so. I figured that I should probably aim for spreading 800 lb of weight (500 for stove, 100 for wood, 200 for impact), spread over 54 sq in for a loading of 15 psi (factor of 2 safety). This would require spreading the force of each leg over a 4"x4" area, which makes me think I should use the plate steel, or perhaps sit the stove on high density fire brick, neither seem like the most attractive options.

(broken link removed to http://www.finpan.com/products/backerboard/propanel/)

Just wondering, what was the thermal insulator, micore? Micore and mortar or thinset are not going to bond well.

 

[Woody Stover]

I'd think it would be OK to run with the bypass open, as long as you don't have a lot of flame. But Ashful is right, run with the bypass closed and open up the air a little. That way, you should still be able to run clean with no smoke.

 

[coffeebean]

Do NOT run that stove with bypass open, beyond the time when the probe registers in the Active region. Doing so will likely cause the bypass damper or frame to warp.

However, nothing is lost, here. You will still get great flame show with the t-stat set to 2 or 3. The flames aren't squashed until you get down to the lowest burn settings.

Good to know that we can get decent flames with the Cat engaged. At t-stat settings 2 or 3 I hope my better half doesn't cook me out while enjoying the show!

 

[coffeebean]

I've never looked at an Ashford, but it's probably like mine with regard to the bypass. Look thru the flue collar with the bypass open and make sure the bypass gasket is intact, and the frame it sits in ('bypass gasket retainer') isn't warped or otherwise damaged. Should also check the door and window gaskets, just because.

If you want a nice fire to look at, pull the coals up by the door, and load a few splits E/W with some gaps between them. Give it enough air and it almost looks like a real fire. It also helps to dig a little ditch thru the coals so air can get under the splits.

The stove feet should be fine on the tile

Thanks for the advice on the checking the integrity of the bypass. I'll have to have a look at that when I get the stove here.

 

[Woody Stover]

Everyone's different, but I don't watch the fire too much, I just run clean and low most of the time...

 

[coffeebean]

Everyone's different, but I don't watch the fire too much, I just run clean and low most of the time...

I'm an engineer, by education, function is pretty important to me. My better half is not so technical, so ambiance is important for her. I think the trick is to find the right balance. Getting both form & function is ideal, and this stove seems pretty close to that.

 

[begreen]

If it warms her well in December she will love the function. By then you probably will be giving the fire enough air to see flames too.

 

[tarzan]

Check the damper to make sure nothing is warped from the previous owner running with it open. If not, concider yourself lucky and as Ashful said, do not run with the damper open any longer than it takes to get the cat active. After that you can keep the thermostat turned up for a flame show but the real amazing thing about a BK is the heat given from a slow burning black firebox.

 

[Rossco]

Good to know that we can get decent flames with the Cat engaged. At t-stat settings 2 or 3 I hope my better half doesn't cook me out while enjoying the show!

Gonna chase you out of the room if you run it that high on a main living floor.

If I run my basement princess on high, it's hard to breath down there and Iam pleased to get back upstairs.

Just get dry wood, burn it how you feel comfortable, flame or not.

Buy a cheap TV and run the Xmass log on loop if required.

 

[BKVP]

I am indeed proud of all these wonderful and spot on responses! However, as the owner of a King Parlor, (legs), I would disagree about the placing of legs directly on your tile. I have broken two the tiles in two hearth pads to date.

Mostly this was due to my moving the stove around, once to get behind the stove to add on a fresh air kit and the other fails to come to memory. I would place 4 pieces of something cool looking under the legs, about 8" square/diameter. I might even consider four pieces of glass so you can see the tile.

As for the difference between the 30 and 30.1, the difference is the ash plug size (now 4") and the baffle behind the cat is now a pivoting baffle. The manual for the 30 is in the archived manuals section, but they are essentially the same unit.

Do not run the stove with the by pass open, once the cat is active....but these great experts already admonished you on that topic.

Enjoy!

 

[Woody Stover]

I would place 4 pieces of something cool looking under the legs

I think wood is really cool-looking...how about some Hedge-apple? Seriously, I like your glass idea if he can find some tuff glass...

 

[begreen]

It's a foam based backer board for tile. I confirmed using it as a floor insulator with their technical staff, as its normally used for walls. Although, they seem to have updated their documentation for floor use now. However, it is a high density insulating foam, so its compressive strength rating is probably only 30 psi or so. I figured that I should probably aim for spreading 800 lb of weight (500 for stove, 100 for wood, 200 for impact), spread over 54 sq in for a loading of 15 psi (factor of 2 safety). This would require spreading the force of each leg over a 4"x4" area, which makes me think I should use the plate steel, or perhaps sit the stove on high density fire brick, neither seem like the most attractive options.

(broken link removed to http://www.finpan.com/products/backerboard/propanel/)

I have never heard of a foam board being used as backer board. For peace of mind I think I would pull up the tile in that area, remove the foam board, lay down some Durock NexGen, then thinset the tile to the cement board. The Durock will have some insulative value and will provide a firm foundation for the tile.

 

[webby3650]

The flames are even nicer to watch with the bypass closed. Just kick the air control up to 3 and whispy floating flames will appear, it's a nice show!
I'm not familiar with the underlayment you have, but I've installed dozens upon dozens of stoves on tile floors and have never seen one crack. Although most have a good cement backer base.

 

[coffeebean]

Thanks for the information! I've a custom tempered glass company I've dealt with locally, I'll have to query them on this.

Is there a reason you're suggesting spreading the load over 4x the area?

I'll have to come up with a training plan so we don't leave the bypass open.

I am indeed proud of all these wonderful and spot on responses! However, as the owner of a King Parlor, (legs), I would disagree about the placing of legs directly on your tile. I have broken two the tiles in two hearth pads to date.

Mostly this was due to my moving the stove around, once to get behind the stove to add on a fresh air kit and the other fails to come to memory. I would place 4 pieces of something cool looking under the legs, about 8" square/diameter. I might even consider four pieces of glass so you can see the tile.

As for the difference between the 30 and 30.1, the difference is the ash plug size (now 4") and the baffle behind the cat is now a pivoting baffle. The manual for the 30 is in the archived manuals section, but they are essentially the same unit.

Do not run the stove with the by pass open, once the cat is active....but these great experts already admonished you on that topic.

Enjoy!

 

[coffeebean]

I have never heard of a foam board being used as backer board. For peace of mind I think I would pull up the tile in that area, remove the foam board, lay down some Durock NexGen, then thinset the tile to the cement board. The Durock will have some insulative value and will provide a firm foundation for the tile.

Foam based boards are being used for tile all the time now. Kerdi board and wedi board are high end foam backerboards for tile. Finpan is a lower cost equivalent. It's being supporting our tile floor fine for 2 yrs now. The tile floor also has electrical heating which is why I wanted insulation. With slab on grade foundation and -30C weather the tile heat only needs to run at 20% power to maintain a tile temp of 24C. I'm very pleased with the results.

 

[BKVP]

Thanks for the information! I've a custom tempered glass company I've dealt with locally, I'll have to query them on this.

Is there a reason you're suggesting spreading the load over a 4x the area?

I'll have to come up with a training plan so we don't leave the bypass open.

Each of those skinny, beautiful legs supports that very, very heavy stove. How about a full pad of glass? I see them under stoves all over. People like to show off their hardwoods, tile, marble etc. Spread the load out.....

 

[coffeebean]

The flames are even nicer to watch with the bypass closed. Just kick the air control up to 3 and whispy floating flames will appear, it's a nice show!
I'm not familiar with the underlayment you have, but I've installed dozens upon dozens of stoves on tile floors and have never seen one crack. Although most have a good cement backer base.

I'll have to try this out. Sounds cool! I'm not sure when I'll get the chance. It'll likely be peak summer heat when its all done.

The floor system I have is pretty uncommon. I did have to discuss my application with the finpan tech staff. However it seems to be catching on as its now in their official install directions. Having a nice warm floor that doesnt break the bank (compared to uninsulated) is nice.

 

[begreen]

Never had a tile crack so far, knock on wood. Our current tile is supporting a 600 lb stove on small feet with no issue to note.

I'll have to try this out. Sounds cool! I'm not sure when I'll get the chance. It'll likely be peak summer heat when its all done.

The floor system I have is pretty uncommon. I did have to discuss my application with the finpan tech staff. However it seems to be catching on as its now in their official install directions. Having a nice warm floor that doesnt break the bank (compared to uninsulated) is nice.

You don't need the finpan insulation under the hearth. Remove it from that area if it doesn't have a high temperature rating due to polystyrene beads in the product. Durock NexGen uses pumice last I checked.

 

[coffeebean]

Never had a tile crack so far, knock on wood. Our current tile is supporting a 600 lb stove on small feet with no issue to note.



You don't need the finpan insulation under the hearth. Remove it from that area if it doesn't have a high temperature rating due to polystyrene beads in the product. Durock NexGen uses pumice last I checked.

The stove requires no thermal hearth protection and the finpan is good for steam temperatures. The floor system I have is superior for insulation which is needed as its the thermal envelope of my building (-30C winters), it provides superior mechanical isolation of the tile, condensation prevention which leads to better mold growth prevention. It's weakness for taking point loads is known and being addressed. Why would you suggest ripping up a perfectly working, superior floor system to install something which is less ideal, overall?

 

[begreen]

I suggested taking it up in area of the hearth only, not the whole system. ProPanel is only rated up to 160F according to the data sheet.

 

[Ashful]

I'd wait till (if) they crack, to fix any theoretically potential problem.