(New) Englander 30-NCH Owner

[sdunlimited]

So I decided to finally register at Hearth.com after years of lurking. Thanks to all the good folks here who have taken the time to review, discuss and explain how they run their stoves I picked up an Englander 30-NCH from my local Home Depot yesterday. This unit is replacing a highly inefficient unit we've been using for the past 3 years to heat our ~3ksqft home.

The old stove was a Century Heating 110,000BTU unit that was rated for 1,500sqft. When we purchased it, we really didn't know what we were doing and figured the higher the BTU output, the better. Wrong!
With no air inlet control and a need to heat a lot of space, things got out of control -BAD- a couple of times. This stove ended up getting overheating on two distinct occasions that were downright scary. The worst was when my stack temp gauge (about 4ft off the top of the stove after a 90 degree elbow) read ~1,500 degrees. Yep, 1,500 degrees! Thought we were going to lose the house that night...
Miraculously everything is still here, the stove didn't melt and our homemade hearth (built from advice found here on this site!) held up like a champ.

Now we've migrated to a 'real' stove and have high hopes that it'll do a far better job heating our home than the old stove. We picked it up just last night, heaved it onto the hearth and plugged it into the existing 6" stack (~30' Selkirk double walled stainless). We haven't fired it yet as it's relatively warm outside and I'm not looking to fill the house with smoke just yet. Although, we could probably take advantage of a couple of warm days here and cook the finish off through a few temp ranges with the windows open.

Looking forward to getting through another New England winter a little warmer and more comfortable for the family this year. Thanks to all the long time members who've posted so much helpful information over the years. It has been a huge help to us in getting our setup together.

Cheers

 

[begreen]

Welcome, sounds like you need a tee-shirt. With a 30ft stack you might benefit from a key damper to help reduce draft on windy days.

 

[sdunlimited]

Welcome, sounds like you need a tee-shirt. With a 30ft stack you might benefit from a key damper to help reduce draft on windy days.

Thanks for the advice on this. I do have a short segment with a damper I could put back in. The clearances were a little different between the stoves so we removed that piece so it all fit perfectly. With the Century, we had a damper right at the top of the stove and this other one just after the 90 degree elbow about 4' up. It sure was tough trying to regulate that thing, though. Hoping this one will be a lot better.
Probably going to get our first fire going in it later today after it cools off a bit. Still a bit too warm outside.

 

[Snotrocket]

With that tall of a stack I would put the key damper in as a just in a case kind of thing. If after the first year you've never used it, take it out.

Take advantage of the warm temps to cure the paint. You won't mind having the windows open if it's fairly warm outside.

 

[sdunlimited]

We put our first fire through the 30 a couple nights ago. No draft issues, no real oddities. The door did need to be cracked open for a solid 20-30mins however, as I've seen others note. I believe the manual states this as well. The whole time my air draft was wide open.
It seemed to take all of that 20-30mins to get stove top temps to about 200 degrees. I couldn't close the door in earnest and let the thing fly until above 400 degrees (measured in the center of the stove, just forward of the incline). Flue temps were consistent and typically 450-650 degrees depending on where the stove was at (measured about 4ft up just after the 90 degree elbow through double-walled black pipe).
The paint was obviously burning off/curing at these temps but I wanted to get it up to a point that would be more like what we'll be seeing in the winter so the door came open again after I loaded a couple good sized splits in there. Once they took off, I closed the door (air draft still wide open at this point) and stove top temps rose slowly to ~550 degrees. The paint smoked a lot more and set off the smoke alarm on this floor so I pulled out a fan to circulate the air better around the detector. A few windows and sliding door open didn't help too much but we were able to keep the ~1,500sqft first floor at 76 degrees in those conditions. Probably 40 degrees or so outside so not what I'd call cold.
We've got a couple more warm days on deck here but I'm planning on getting another fire or two through it before we start it up for the season. I'd like to burn the pain through a couple more temp levels so we don't smoke ourselves out on a truly cold day. From my reading here, it sounds like stovetop temp of ~750 is the upper end of a 'normal' operating temperature for this stove. The wife is paranoid of temps that she deems 'too hot' because of our past experiences...I'm working to assure here that this stove is different

 

[Snotrocket]

Once the temp dips into the 20's and 30's your draft will change dramatically.

 

[BrotherBart]

Here's yer shirt.

 

[kennyp2339]

Next time you burn, once the stove gets rolling to about 450deg or so push your damper all the way shut, believe it or not with the air closed the secondary's take control and the stove top temp raises faster then levels off, with the air wide open you actually let more hot air up the flu, now's the time to experiment, its a good stove. Some people that have weaker drafts have found out that they can only shut there air down to a 1/4, and that is like closing it down full if you have optimal draft.

 

[sdunlimited]

My shirt! I'm now one of us!

Kenny - I'll give that a go tonight when we fire it up again. I was noticing that the flue gases were hotter and shutting the door brought the stove temp up while seemingly equalizing or reducing flue temps. Below that 400 degree mark however, she seemed to want to stop burning. A few more fires and experimenting like you said will get us where we need to be.

I took a quick look at the stack and took a picture to show the height. It's actually about 22' or so from the thimble to cap and it's only 3' from the top of the stove to the thimble inside the house. Can't be any more than 26'-27' total so I'm guessing that's 'normal' with regard to proper drafting for this stove.

(broken image removed)


Here's a pic a grabbed the other night with a few nice and dry cherry splits cooking away. Check out those shiny and new fire bricks!

(broken image removed)

 

[Woody Stover]

If you haven't already, you can try putting the fan in a window right next to the stove, blowing out, then open a window in another room to keep the smell out of the rest of the house...

 

[SmokeyCity]

welcome to the party pal!

 

[sdunlimited]

We've got a couple more burns under our belt over the past few days. No draft issues to speak of with respect to filling the house w/smoke or anything like that. Paint has cured to a point where we're not getting much of a smell at all up to ~550*. Strange thing is, I haven't yet been able to get it over 550*. I'd like to rocket it up to 650 or so and get through the next 'heat zone' but for some reason it hasn't happened yet. It's probably due in large part to me messing around w/the air control to try and dial things in and get familiar with it. Again, there's been no real issues but I don't know the sweet spot just yet.

I tried shutting the air all the way down when I hit 450 the other night and the secondaries do take over, but within 5-10mins or so the shut down and temps begin to come down. The wood is some pretty good dried cherry (standing dead felled in April, split in May and stacked on my covered porch since June. No moisture meter to get a proper reading on it). I do have a couple pallets of Eco Bricks but I'm saving those to mix with a bunch of maple I have during the cold months (all the red oak needs another year ) Once we get up to 500* and just above, this beast starts throwing the heat. Right now we've got the downstairs at 80* and upstairs is sitting at 70*. That's been typical for us over the past couple years with the old inefficient stove but my hope is that we'll begin to reduce that 10* differential with more consistent burning in this stove.
It's looking like keeping the air open 1/4 is allowing for the wood to burn just a bit while still firing the secondaries (at least with the wood I'm burning now). More experimenting to come and possibly a moisture meter in the near future to give me an idea of what's going to work best for us. For now in the shoulder season, it's t-shirts and shorts in here!

 

[Highbeam]

That wood, not split and stacked until June, is holding you back.

 

[tarzan]

Moisture in the bricks could also be an issue that will solve itself if so

 

[BobUrban]

That wood, not split and stacked until June, is holding you back.

x2 - it is obviously good enough to get the stove firing off well and the secondaries working but not quite dry enough for you to shut the air all the way down. This, or there is the potential that your system just wont function well with the primary cut completely off. Every system is a little different so you just have to play with it until you find that comfortable "sweet spot" for the primary air. My system, for whatever reason, runs at it's best with the air cut off but others like to leave a 1/4" or so to get the same results. Again, not a big deal once you find your spot.

Keep in mind this spot can change with differing ingredients such as species of wood, MC, outside temps and even wind and wind direction. Welcome to the 30 club - I love this stove.

 

[Highbeam]

Regardless of your lowest possible intake setting the stove, with proper fuel, would be able to run to 750 without trouble.

 

[sdunlimited]

We now have a good amount of burns under out belt here with the 30 and have a good handle on what does and doesn't work. The good news is that we have no problems getting the downstairs to 80-85* and upstairs to 68-72*. The family has zero complaints here other than the occasional "It's too hot" Music to my ears

You are all absolutely correct with respect to wood quality and moisture content. Non-seasoned wood is just not the stuff this stove needs. The big 7lb Redstone eco-bricks from Tractor Supply are our go-to for throwing the heat. Mixing one of those blocks in with the cherry I have on hand works great. We're able to maintain anywhere between 400-650 without a lot of hands on management. Unfortunately, for this season, I've got 3+ cords of wood that I won't be using. It makes far more sense to hold onto it until the 2015-2016 season and get a good burn out of it. This means that I'll have to pick up another pallet of blocks probably in January or so but I think that makes the most sense to try and get ahead of the game a bit.

Question
For all of you who cut and split your own wood, can you recommend a quality, durable glove?
I like a tight fitting 'mechanics-style' glove but I can't find one that holds up at all. My latest purchase was Home Depot's Husky mechanics glove. It looked and felt more durable than any other glove I've tried so far but I already busted through one of the thumbs.
I don't mind spending a fair amount of money on a quality product as I've easily got $70-$80 into 5+ pairs I've already destroyed. Any recommendations are appreciated!

Cheers~

 

[Sushiyummy]

This one http://www.harborfreight.com/coated-rubber-grip-gloves-medium-90909.html is pretty good. It is last as long as Leather Gloves from Costco, which come in pack of 3 pairs of $21.

 

[BobUrban]

Use the search tool with the word "GLOVES" in the gear forum. Lots of talk over there and opinions

 

[sdunlimited]

Thanks for the tips guys. I've tried the latex covered gloves before (not sure if they were Kevlar or not) but my hands absolutely froze in them! They seemed to suck the heat away from my hands for some reason. I'll look around for some of the various recommendations and see what may last a little longer. It looks like those Harbor Freight ones are insulated and may just be the thing. We'll add those to the short list!

 

[sdunlimited]

Wanted to give a quick update now that we're cruising through December.

We couldn't be happier with our Englander 30! Nobody in the house is wanting for comfort so far. No socks and sweatshirts at bed time. No shivering when getting out of the shower. It's a night and day difference for sure. This is all with a non-optimal setup and wood that could stand some more drying time.

The house is just under 3k sqft and the Englander is sitting on an outside wall just a hair off center of central staircase. The stairs open up to room on the 2nd floor with just a railing (no wall) but it is not a cathedral ceiling or anything. Downstairs, the thermostat is at the staircase and almost in line with the stove. This stays firmly planted between 70-75 and only drops below 70 overnight when everyone's sleeping. Upstairs, the thermostat is in the master bedroom which is just about as far away from the stove as you can get. That one sits in the 66-69 range and holds like a rock. Barely dips overnight but that's probably due to warm sleeping bodies.

We're burning the last of the relatively dry cherry we had on hand and it's worked very well. We also have a couple tons of bio-bricks that we'll feed in occasionally but those are earmarked for Jan/Feb. There's a ton of maple split and stacked that burns well but could really benefit from another 6 months or so of drying time. Tree crews were recently by and took down 4 medium sized standing dead oak trees that I've cut, split and stacked. This stuff is amazingly dry. Never seen a wood this dry when cut into but they've been dead for a 2-3yrs now. Very happy with how this stuff is burning. All the red oak we have on hand is split and stacked and waiting for another season. Not going to be burning any of that this year.

Chalk me up to one very happy Englander customer/owner. Buying this stove was the best money we've spent all year bar none.